http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
"So my incentive to be clean is what, exactly?"]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
Now there's a thing to be said for reducing miles driven. Auto-centrism and suburban sprawl are big parts of a lot of problems, but that doesn't mean you lift the lid on inefficient vehicles.

Here's a thought... Now it's a little new and kind of radical, but it's been tried a few places and worked alright: toll roads.

Oh, and if you want to go further, congestion charges.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
but if they are going to initiate a milage tax why not just have the milage taken every year during the inspection. sure there are some problems with that but it would balance out ok.

1. when you buy a car and you register it the base milage is recorded in the DMV db.
2. when you get an inspection the base milage is updated and you pay a tax on the difference
3. if you sell a car, the new person registering it gets a base milage and the difference between their base and your last base is taxed to you upon selling the car.

no need for expensive devices. And the only way to bypass the tax is to never have your car inspected or sold in califorina. So you buy it till it dies and never get it inspected. Plus, when cops pull you over if they see your car hasn't been inspected they can get your milage at the same time they give you a ticket. Now you will stuck with a ticket and a tax bill coming at the same time.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/[paranoid]
I suspect this is nothing to do with taxing car use, and everything to do with monitoring the population.
[/paranoid]]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/California could raise more tax revenue quite easily by giving the so called "illegal" aliens driving licenses which have to be paid for. Not only would this increase revenues it would also allow these people to go and buy car insurance which would solve a lot of problems for other drivers instead of dealing with "uninsured motorists". It would also allow for a database of addresses to be on file for such persons allowing for their being "tracked" as when and if needed.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
"Boy...you Californians really know how to live don't you. Why the hell would you live in that state?" quote by Ryan

Nice... Real nice.
Thanks.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
Then the actual text of the article hit me.

Worst idea ever.

Well, we Californians are not simply stupid. It is only a proposal from one stupid induhvidual appointed by a stupid Austrian. It won't fly here. THAT mileage tax will never make it into the books.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
In the UK we pay the equivalent of $4 tax per gallon...]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
Sounds like another bill created by someone who doesn't understand technology at all.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/As for discouraging people from buying hybrids, would all the prius drivers suddenly become anti-enviromental and buy a hummer? They'd still be spending more on gas to feul a less-efficent vechicle. I don't think we can use tax incentives to force people to buy efficent vechiles. For one thing, it assumes that people behave rationally, and that's not usually the case.
I would have no problem with a tax-law like this, assuming 1) the money I put in will be use to fix up the roads I drive on, and 2) the data collected on my driving habits would only be accessable for tax-porpuses. Since those things arn't going to happen, I'm opposed to the law, if not the principle.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
Right now, no one can move around this city efficiently -- there is no incentive whatsoever to use public transport, even if you live and work next to bus stops, since the buses are bogged down in the same traffic. This would free up those lanes to the busriders could fly across town for 10 cents and the wealthy could do the same for two bucks+gas, and EVERYBODY would get there FAST.

Like I said, a GREAT idea. But they won't have the balls to enact it.

]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
even the proposed implementation is awful, as pointed out previously. yearly inspection would take care of mileage checks. GPS in cars? kiss my black ass.

]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
Joan Borucki
Office of the Director
Department of Motor Vehicles
2415 1st Avenue Mail Station F101
Sacramento, CA 95818

and let her know what you think about this!]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
California is getting worse all the time with stuff like this. We Arizonans aren't too pleased with it either becuase people from CA are moving here in record numbers and our cities are growing too fast. Pretty soon it will be hard to find affordable housing here as well. Thanks California! :-(]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
The gas tax allows California to collect taxes on out-of-state drivers which the milage tax doesn't. Anyone in OC actually like taking The 91 toll-road? It's a $5 toll during rush hour to drive just under 8 miles of road. The gas tax is also a very good approximation of proportianal use, less efficient cars and people who drive more, pay more.

I don't know about you, but my company probably won't let me change my working hours so I can avoid higher taxes. It's even less likely that low-paying, hourly jobs will shift schedules.

Let's face it, California, Southern California, in particular, isn't New York or London or Paris. Mass transit just doesn't work here as it does in other places. It never will here either, we are simply too large and spread out.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/If they would stop using gas taxes to fund Tunerville Trolleys there would be plenty of money for the roads.
Caligornia roads are crowded, today, because Jerry Brown's administration decided to stop building roads. That put us 20 years behind.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
It's not as easy as just reading the odometer. What happens when you drive out of state? Keep in mind that it's illegal for CA to tax my out of state driving. Am I supposed to call the DMV and alert them as to my exact mileage when I left and again when I returned? Have you ever had to call the CA-DMV? HELL. ON. EARTH.

The only way this would work is GPS tracking boxes that you would have to take in every year to be read. I don't much care for the government keeping records of exactly when and where I drive.

Quick notes from State Senator Tom McClintock:
"Californians currently pay the 4th highest tax per gallon of gasoline in the country. And yet we recently ranked at the very bottom of a nationwide survey of both highway conditions and per capita spending for highways. The problem is that existing taxes paid by highway users have not been used for our highways. In the last two years, $2 billion of our sales taxes on gasoline have been raided for purposes unrelated to our highways - including $1.1 billion in the current year."

The problem is that most of the taxes we pay never get to CALTRANS to fix and improve the roads. That's not going to change just because the way we're taxed is changed.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
This is absolutely moronic. Taxes should be bases simply off GVW and EPA milage. I have an older car that is not the most fuel efficient (a mere 25 mpg vs. 60 or so on a Prius) but I love driving it so paying fairly I have no problem with. If one chooses a HUMMER and gets 10 mpg AND the weight contributes to higher stress loads on our roads then they should also pay more for that privilege.

And no crap about needing it for your family either. A mini-van works just as well and gets great milage but here in California where image is everything it your choice to buy the H2 instead. Fine then cough up the coin for your image.

On another note....

We live in California because:
1. We are all a short drive to the Pacific Ocean
2. The weather in fantastic
3. We designed most the technology you used to write your idiotic comment
4. We make most the movies you see that entertain your brain-dead self
5. We produce most the fruits and veggies you eat outside of corn, soy beans, and oranges.
6. Most of all we are one of the most areas in the World.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
On the actual topic of roads. While a Prius and a HumVee would both need to travel on said roads, the HumVee weighs more and would put more strain on the roads than a Prius (it's the reason that some streets will have signs that say "No Trucks over 3 tons"—when it came to the attention that numerous S.U.V.s weighed 3+ tons some wondered if such would be applied to them, unfortunately not). Additionally our national funding for road projects has been reduced drastically since 2001 (I guess our ways don't go over too well in Crawford TX) so our already shoddy roads grow worse (various people from other parts of the country and from European nations I've spoken to wonder why our roads are so bad for considering that it doesn't snow in some of the most populous areas of the state).]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
6. Most of all we are one of the most DIVERSE areas in the World.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/

Joan Borucki
Office of the Director
Department of Motor Vehicles
2415 1st Avenue Mail Station F101
Sacramento, CA 95818



Director Borucki:

I just read about your alleged proposal to replace the gasoline tax with a "mileage tax" which charges Californians for actual miles driven in the state.

I sincerely hope that this allegation is merely an unfounded rumor as it is one of the worst ideas I have heard come out of Sacramento in my lifetime. Anyone who could even contemplate this proposal would have to be entirely ignorant of:
the link between gasoline consumption and poor air quality;
the fact that housing prices in California prevent residents from living close to where they work;
the link between CO2 emissions and global climate change;
the fact that global climate change is now indisputably real and upon us;
the extent to which our national foreign policy is driven by our national consumption of oil derived products including gasoline;
the generally inverse relationship between the cost of a vehicle and the corresponding MPG of said vehicle, i.e. rich people are more likely to drive gas guzzling vehicles like a new Hummer while poor people are more likely to drive fuel efficient vehicles like a used Geo Metro;
the fact that decreasing the total cost of ownership of SUVs and other gas guzzlers while simultaneously increasing the total cost of ownership of fuel efficient vehicles will shift buying decisions to increase fuel consumption.

Please reply to me an assure me that I have been the victim of a hoax and that you have no intention of damaging our environment, and exacerbating our foreign policy problems, while shifting the tax burden off of the rich and onto the poor.

Sincerely,



Ryan Walker

ps. I completely disregard the portion of the allegation which said you would use GPS trackers in all vehicles to calculate this tax as that would imply that you have very little understanding of the technology and a complete disregard for the Privacy Clause of the California State Constitution, not even to mention the massive expense of installing such devices and ease with which they could be disabled.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
Figure out the average gas tank capacity for a recent mid-size car (ie: 13 gallons). Any amount of gas purchased by the average consumer (commercial vehicles could be exempted) up to this point would be taxed at a set rate. Any amount purchased above this would be taxed at a higher rate, and would increase as the gas increases… so if you purchased 18 gallons of gas, you would pay 5% more tax on the extra 5 gallons, or if you bought 28 gallons (the gas tank capacity for a 2003 Ford Expedition) you would pay 15% more tax on the extra 15 gallons. Ideally, the extra revenue generated by the extra tax would be given to cities to spend on infrastructure (ie: improved roads, public transit).

The rationale being:
It would encourage people to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles with smaller gas tanks.
It would encourage people who currently own larger gas-guzzling vehicles to not fill up their tanks, thus reducing in emissions by driving lighter vehicles (and saving them money! - you could market this fact by providing an economic breakdown of money saved to make the surtax easier to swallow to those affected).
It would educate the general public about the fact that a heavier gas tank means you burn more gas, a fact most people probably do not realize/think about.
It would not adversely affect lower-income families.
It would enable people with these larger vehicles that cause additional stress on the system (ie: roads) to contribute more to improving the system.
Some people will not change their ways simply for the 'greater good' of the public; at least if they are going to consume irresponsibly, they will contribute more indirectly to improving sustainable transportation.
]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
So that's why the BART in San Francisco is the #1 public transport system in the US?

]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
the statement is pure socialism: "Some people will not change their ways simply for the 'greater good' of the public."]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
31: San Francisco is not SoCal; yes, California in general is not spread out the way Los Angeles is.

34: This is a RED-appointed idea...]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
It never ceases to amaze me the levels of stupidity found in government. How do these idiots get jobs, anyway?

Send people bills? Joan, what planet are you living on? Come back to Earth, Joan. Come back now. I'm begging you.

Unbelievable.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Where's Arnie when you need him?

Uh, Joan is Arnie's shill.]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/
I see. So if she's his shill, the Governator is in on this too? It's ultimately his idea?

That would be a shame. It still doesn't keep people from recognizing how stupid the idea is.
]]>Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/Dec 19th 2005 2:10AM