http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/ Engadget Comments for Buy DRM-free songs from the iTunes Music Store http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
Is it a hoax and I'm just the only one who fell for it ?

Or am I just the only one not madly downloading DRM free stuff from ITunes right at this moment...]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://fuware.nanocrew.net.nyud.net:8090/pymusique/

http://fuware.nanocrew.net.nyud.net:8090/pymusique/pymusique-setup.exe]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
Have you ever overclocked hardware? You've done the same thing as DVDJon.

Have you ever dog-eared a book? Same thing.

What I don't understand is my own motivation. I use ITMS. I don't believe in the crap Apple does to its customers. I am a reprehensible person; I have succumbed to the Man out of convenience. And I'll continue to do so.

Woe is me. *gnashes teeth*]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
Huh? How is he "vandalizing" anything? You still have to pay for your music. And people who want to keep using iTunes as the front end app to the music store will not even see anything different. I don't see how this affects anybody in any way other than by giving consumers access to their full fair use rights as protected under copyright law (remember, consumers have rights under copyright law just as copyright holders do - the RIAA has taken those rights away from you with DRM).

People have been accessing the iTMS for a long time with different front-ends - it's the only way to even do it under Linux, for example. Apple has done nothing about these other front-ends. Now, that doesn't mean they won't start now, but it seems a bit hypocritical (or something) for Apple to selectively enforce their TOS - it seems to me it's like protecting a trademark, you have to do it all the time or you're basically forfeiting your rights.

And this doesn't fall under the DMCA either, since this isn't "stripping" the DRM - it's just accessing the songs before DRM is applied. This seems like a serious flaw in the way iTMS processes music sales, because it means the DMCA does not apply.

Personally, I'm just gonna keep buying CD's, but I don't see how people who *pay* for their music and want to enjoy their rights granted under copyright law are doing anything to "vandalize" iTunes. Some of you people make it sound like these people are the same as pirates. They're paying the same price everybody else is, and they're downloading from a legal source. So it's against the TOS - big deal. The way TOS's and EULA's are these days, I'm sure every single person here probably breaks one EULA or another every single day of their lives in some fashion. The point is Apple's getting their money, the record labels are getting their money, the artists are getting their money. And if you want to keep getting DRM by using iTunes, hey, nothing about this is stopping you.
]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
steve shut up, at least and watch your iTunes bugs!]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
which would the music industry prefer? an unlimited amount of songs stripped of drm, for $15 per month, or 99˘ per track?

drm stripping the music you're paying for rather than renting makes a huge diffrence buddy.]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
Here we go..

On the iTMS, you can listen to 30 second clips..

Alright?

On Napster, you can listen to EVERYTHING!

So... on Napster you can pay for one months music and RECORD the songs and then cancel your subscription..

On Apples store,.. uh.. record 30 second previews? Yay..

So Steve is still right.. the fact that you can strip the DRM AFTER its property of iTMS customer probably doesn't piss the record companies off TOO much

a) at least they're paying for the music
b) the percentage of people anal enough to do this with Hymn or whatever... so they can.. er.. burn a CD ... *shrug... is so incredibly small that the record companies are not getting mad at Apple...

Yeah.. what 10 said hehe]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
Power to the people!]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Ripping via iTunes produces garbled MP3 tracks which are no good.

Anybody got any bright ideas as to how I can get rid of this crap so I can listen to the music I paid for in the manner that I want to?]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
DRM does not take away fair use. In fact, Apple's DRM offers some of the greatest flexibility of any DRM. Now granted, its a pain in the ass to move it to a player other than an iPod, but then again, why isn't anyone here bitching that they can't move their Napster songs to their iPod or the other way around? Generally you buy the player that matches the music store. If you choose an iPod, you are choosing ITMS, while this doesn't leave you much choice that doesn't seem to be the complaint. If it's choice you want, why did you lock yourself into iTMS? If it's the iPod you want to play other DRM'd songs on, then you should be talking about cracking WMA's DRM not iTMS. Can someone tell me what they consider "fair use" of a song?
Nowhere in section 107 of the fair use clause of the copyright code does it say you can copy and distribute copyrighted material. It does say that the impact on the market for that product must be considered.

If you bought a framed poster and had the ability to make a digital copy of the poster and print it out, would you make a copy, print it our and give it to a friend to hang in their house? Of course not, even if you could make an exact duplicate. Most everyone recognizes that this would be copyright infringement. Why don't people think this way about music?
Being able to burn 5 copies of a CD from the original AAC file and unlimited copies of the CD seems pretty much like fair use to me.
So unless you own a player other than an iPod and for some reason you desire music from iTMS for that player, you should quit crying foul when it comes to Apple offering fair use.]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/I found out more from a handy page at http://users.pandora.be/satcp/cd2mp3-en.htm
]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
I have the napster (not to go) and I pay 9.99$ a month. On my PC i've tons of music from napster and if there's something I really like I buy it and own it 99c (as on itunes).

I think Napster is Itunes with a Plus, the 30sec preview don't satify me at all.
]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
Taking myself as an example, I have a portable CD player that plays MP3 CDRs, I have a Network player that plays MP3s and MPEG videos wirelessly on my home theater, I have an iPod and a Zen Micro and two vehicles without the means to play MP3s or other digital audio files (other than CDs).

I would like to be able to play music I buy with limited effort on ALL of my devices, not just ONE of them because of proprietary formats and DRM. So I don't buy digitally.

I also don't buy CDs because the rising cost has surpassed their worth. So the record companies are getting NONE of my money, and I don't think I'm alone here. I'll be happy listening to the music I have already and content with the ability to pay my bills.]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
In reality, you are bound to whatever they want to sell you. I'd like to buy a car without the wheels or half a house or just one grape, but if no one wants to sell it to me, that's _my_ problem. The seller gets to determine what form he sells his product in, and he could stop selling it at all if he wanted. Would McDonald's trample any of your rights if it decided to sell shampoo instead of burgers, or to sell burgers only in groups of three? No.]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
I download ITMS songs, play them on my ipod, burn different playlists to CD's when I want to, move them to MP3's if I like, and don't worry about the DRM. Works out well.

I prefer ITMS to Napster or other services because I have like iPods over the generic MP3 players that've I've seen.]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
http://www.hymn-project.org/jhymndoc/]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/03/16/apple_steals_itunes_.html

AllofMP3 is an excellent alternative to iTunes; it's the only service that sells you DRM-free 320kps (lossless also available) MP3 tracks:

http://www.allofmp3.com/]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
They spammed me and I emailed them asking for a refund or a patch but, so far, no reply.

As far as I'm concerned this iTunes DRM as well as the DVD copy protection means those products will fail in the marketplace. Like someone else on this list - they have failed in my personal marketplace. Who the hell needs a DVD for backing up files? That's what another HD is for or a website. DVDs' sole reason for being is to make movies!!!
As soon as some company comes out with NO-COPY-PROTECTION formats and DVDs then they will take the market. E.g CD and VCRs. I'm sure you all know what a pain it is to try to hook your DVD player up to your TV only to find the image continually dims and brightens because some rich fat dolt at MGM/Sony/or somewhere wants to force cmpy protection hardware on you when all your trying to do is get the damn DVD to play on your TV. So spend hundreds more dollars and hundreds more hours futzing around with their crap. iTunes is one prime example.
Time waster. No improvement on what was already out there!]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
Any insight on how to do this?]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Right? If I don't like it, I shouldn't buy it. Right? I should go somewhere else. Right? Wrong. There *IS* no other place to buy my food because McDonalds has a monopoly on it. I have no choice. I either starve to death or find a way around it.

#28, you have one gaping loophole in your argument. What do you mean you "have no choice"? How does removing the DRM from iTMS songs give you more choice where to buy your music? Removing DRM from a different service might prodide this if you have an iPod. Who has the Monopoly? The WMA world has a lot of vendors selling in their format. Why not buy a WMA compatible player if you want "choice"? If you have a WMA player, do you really need to access songs from iTMS? Not likely. If you have an iPod, then why do you need to hack the DRM in iTMS? Seems like this is more of a case of people who want the DRM removed out of principle than arguing it's removal out of necessity.]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
Last physical CD I believe I purchased was Candlebox.]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
Last physical CD I believe I purchased was Candlebox.]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
Question: Why would they release it under the GPL when the point of it is to break someone else's license restrictions? What makes their license more valid than the iTMS license?

If I broke the GPL of this release, would I not be chased down by the GPL police?]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Where exactly does this idea come from?

"Can someone tell me what they consider "fair use" of a song?
Nowhere in section 107 of the fair use clause of the copyright code does it say you can copy and distribute copyrighted material. It does say that the impact on the market for that product must be considered."

The rest of your argument had some validity for about three more posts after yours and then that went to hell, but that little gem I quoted from you really makes no sense. It shows that you have the same attitude towards the average music consumer as the record labels themselves, and that is "if they don't want us to put protection on the music they purchased, then they must want to pirate it and share it with the world".
Where do you get your facts from anyways?
Because to me it seems like you get all the data to support the theory of "music pirates running the industry into the ground" from the same place as the RIAA.
This assumption you have, has no support by ANY of the other people and what they said about DRM so far in this particular little discussion.
Now after I read what people ACTUALLY said in this little thread, I got the general impression that people aren't against DRM but actually just how it is used. They don't like the fact that it limits what they can do with the music they paid for which is listen to it however they want, be it CD, PC, MP3 player, etc.
Consumers are all for protecting artists rights but not if our own "fair use" rights are basically changed every couple of months based on how the RIAA believes they can get more money out of us.
I am of the group of people that thinks DRM is a waste of time and money on both parties involved (i.e., consumer/producer) because we are all going to find a way to use the music WE paid for how WE want to, and until DRM becomes a "fair and balanced" method of both protecting an artists creation and a consumers right to use what they paid for in what way they want, I am going to circumvent DRM however I can, even if that means I have to use P2P ( but right now I use AllofMP3.com).
]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/I download music illegally sometimes (but not with Kazaa)
I buy CDs

BUT I would never use sht like this - Apple is doing a great job trying to completely legalise music and people like that are screwin it up.

Come on Jobsie, you can fix it!
]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/ I am going to circumvent DRM however I can, even if that means I have to use P2P ( but right now I use AllofMP3.com).

#40, How exactly does using P2P constitute fair use? I assume you mean that you bought the CD and then rather than RIP the CD yourself, you would download via P2P? Or if you bought a DRM song on iTMS that you would then take the time to locate it on P2P and download a non DRM version rather than burning the iTMS version to a CD.
I am sure that must be what you meant because I can see no other way that using P2P to obtain music can constitute fair use.

What exactly about my statement makes "no sense". That is what the fair use clause says. I am not making a generalization that anyone circumventing a DRM wants to pirate, I am arguing against the statement that the DRM takes away you right to "fair use." It certainly does not. It might make it a little more difficult to share on P2P. (By the way, it is incredibly simple to make a non DRM mix CD for a friend from DRM songs, something most all people feel comfortable doing.)
You still can back up your music data files to whatever media you like. This practice is not being stopped. So what exactly are you being stopped from doing?

Would you care to share what you feel is fair use and how the DRM restricts this use? I can use my iTMS song on a CD, then rip that CD to MP3 and put it on whatever I want. If you bought the CD, you would still need to take the time to rip the CD to MP3. Is the big complaint that it takes extra time to make "fair use" of the song?
The time you save traveling to the store to search the music shelves is certainly comparable to a $.25 CD and 5 minutes to burn a copy.

Why aren't people complaining that if they want a song on tape, they need to buy the CD and then record it to tape to listen to in a car that doesn't have a CD player in it? Noone insisted that a Compatible format to interchange between tape and CD be created.
When CDs came out people hesitated to buy CDs because they would have to replace their current music collection. DRM music doesn't REQUIRE you to do this. It is a simple matter of conversion if you wish to change standards. It's completely up to you if you wish to do it.
I still don't see what you are being stopped from doing.
I use iTMS and have to issue with it. If I had a player other than an iPod, I would just convert my collection as I would need to do with any device change. i.e. LP->Tape->CD...etc.]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
*cough**cough* Ahem...

http://www.bgsales.com/video-stabilizer/sima-godvd.html]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
Matt
http://www.technohut.net]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/18/buy-drm-free-songs-from-the-itunes-music-store/
And just for you hardcore nuts on the other side, of course there will still be some people who want to pirate music and not pay, but guess what? It will be a tiny minority, and you can NEVER get rid of those people completely no matter what you do, so why fight an impossible battle that alienates the average consumer?]]>Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM