Philips patent app would force you to watch commercials, both live and recorded
By Evan Blass 
posted April 18th 2006 1:48PM
posted April 18th 2006 1:48PM
In
a move that would surely delight advertisers but enrage consumers, Philips is trying to patent a method for flagging
digital TV content to not only prevent viewers from changing the channel during commercials in live broadcasts, but to
actually lock out fast-forwarding capabilities during ads in recorded programs as well. Even worse, the patent
specifically applies to the already widely-deployed Multimedia Home Platform (MHP) middleware system standard, meaning
that many Europeans' current TVs would be susceptible to these Orwellian controls. Since the US version of this
platform, OCAP, is largely based on the MHP architecture, it's not a stretch to imagine such flagging being applied to
American sets as well. Although we're certain that a workaround would be developed if Philips' evil plan ever actually
materializes, just the thought of our DVRs going impotent is enough to fill us with fear and trepidation.Update 1: Reader Paul B, who also happened to chair the group that wrote the MHP PVR specification, writes to inform us that "there is no such flag as standard in the spec. Philips could add one as a Philips-specific flag but it wouldn't apply to the other manufacturers. Secondly, as currently specificed there is no way for an MHP application to take control of the channel switching function, so changing channels always works." There you have it folks; it seems that all your MHP-equipped gear is safe -- for now.
Update 2: Royal Philips Electronics, ever mindful of their Engadget-reading customers, had this to say in a note to us: "(Philips) filed a patent application, as yet not granted, that enables watching a television movie without advertising. However, some people do want to see the ads. So, we developed a system where the viewer can choose, at the beginning of a movie, to either watch the movie without ads, or watch the movie with ads. It is up to the viewer to take this decision, and up to the broadcaster to offer the various services. Philips never had the intention to force viewers to watch ads against their will and does not use this technology in any current Philips products, nor do we have any plans to do so."
[Via New Scientist]
Ditto #25
I already download half the tv programs I watch and TiVo the rest. I will have no problem boycotting any and all providers of signal and hardware who choose to employ this technology. Philips is already on my sh**list anyway due to poor quality merchandise.
The torrent commumity will explode. Is that what they want?
Uhm. There's prior art to this all over the Internet. Nearly all of the commercial web sites that serve free video have pre-roll commercials, and you can't skip them. Check out MTV, AOL, MSN, etc... Such a dumb patent.
I do admit, some commercials are fun to watch (just because I love marketing strategies) but not if I'm forced to watch them. I don't even have the TV on much, the only reason we have basic basic 12 dollar cable (channels 2-30) is because it lowers our Comcast internet 10 bucks. Makes sense.
I rarely watch tv now, this would just be the last nail in the coffin lid. What R&D dept would even think this a great idea to make a patent for? Phillips of China?
TELL THEM HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS CRAP...
http://www.feedback.philips.com/dedicated/investor-contact/
Yeah, this wouldn't work. What if you accidentally switched to a channel with all commercials? Or what if it flags the actual show as a commercial?
#40 (D): True. It's also possible that Philips is patenting this system in order to sit on it forever and NOT implement it, while preventing others from developing something similar. Maybe they realize the consumer backlash such a system would cause and are taking steps to squash it. I don't know for sure, but just maybe.
How about we quit hoping Phillips won't implement something like this and actually take some action to let them know it's unacceptable?
www.ipaction.org
you know the thing that is f'ckd up about this? We already pay for a premium service: Cable, and yet we're forced to already deal with commericals. How's that work?
Wait till some parents kids are watching their favorite kids programming or some other family programming and an commerical starts talking about "E.D.", "That not so fresh feeling", ect... and the parent sitting there desperatly trying to change the channel/fast foward but can't. The shit will hit the fan then when angry parent's start flooding the customer complaint lines.
Where there is smoke, there is fire and Philips is standing there with a box of matches.
I would cancel my cable TV subscription. Imagine having to sit through an entire feminine hygiene product commercial! I would lose it! Smoker, heater, cooker, ninja kick!!! The TV would be down for the count. The networks would never let this through. How many times have you been watching one crappy show then found a better one during the commercial?
The reason why this would happen is because with the creation of the DVR, more and more people are not watching commercials. All that "Free" TV you watch is actually paid for by these commercials. If people aren't watching commercials, advertisers are losing money. If they lose money, they will stop advertising on tv and not only will programming suffer but it could wipe out "free" tv forever (at least how we know it.) I doubt this would ever happen because it seems like there's some legal issues here or at least that people will STOP watching tv. Which is even worse for the networks. What they will start doing is gaining more money from selling their programs via DVD and downloads or making all tv some sort of subscription. I work in tv... I'm all for subscription services (this refers to network/"free" programming mostly b/c others primarily make their money thru cable and satellite subscriptions) because it would mean an increase in revenue for me and my coworkers and honestly it would mean more freedom from the FCC. (Think HBO.) And with the freedom from the FCC comes a bettering of programs.
turn the telly off then turn it back on to another channel...
easy
Everyone does realize that TV is free because of ads right? Just because you "pay" for cable or satilite doesnt mean your paying for TV, your paying for distribution of the content, not the content (unless you get HBO, showtime, etc.) So without ads, there would ethier be fees (like the UK with BBC) or PBS style telethons every 5 minutes where you can get a shirt and a plate to see their awesome programs about gay puppets. Everyone is just too used to getting things for free, so i guess go back to d/l music from that russian site (or for free), getting those mvoies froma "pirate" torrent site, and then go watch some TV while you skip past the commercials and think its your right to do all of that.
Philips cannot be that stupid. If they are the only DVR on the market that forces people to watch commercials they will watch their market share of the DVR market slide to zero.
A touch of realism is needed in this discussion:
First, we should probably reserve our comments on how the technology "doesn't make sense" until we've actually figured out how the technology would be implemented. It's entirely possible, for example, that the technology would allow you to channel surf, but not to change the channels after you've been watching a station for a *certain* amount of time, etc. Or perhaps it would let you change channels immediately, but not come back to the same program without some delay. That's not to say that it's *good* for consumers--just that it doesn't necessarily "not make sense."
Second, I have a healthy amount of skepticism about the "let's boycott Philips" sentiments. Has there ever been a successful boycott of a product with bad DRM? Free MP3 Players fall before iPod. Free TV recorders fell before Tivo. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't do your best as consumers to use your power as a consumer to discourage Philips, but those of you suggesting that "everyone will boycott Philips" are being a little unrealistic.
No. 49... I have cable, many people in the US have cable, many other people have satellite TV. None of these methods of TV reception are currently free. Actually, I have basically stopped watching TV. I rent DVDs of TV shows from Netflix, or just DVD movies. TV had become so worthless as an entertainment device that I basically didn't use it any longer. If only I could get comedy central and no other channel, and only pay $10/month for it....
Even if it gets implemented, I really couldn't care less. Why? I gave up watching TV long ago. I mostly quit watching about the time reality TV shows made their appearance. Try it for a month and see what you think. You'll have a new appreciation for how crappy the shows really are and how annoying the commercials have become. What the TV networks don't get (and what they won't totally get until the sheep-like masses finally can't stand their BS any more), is that there are many other things people can and will do for entertainment.
And BANG, no more Philip's in my house. If they ever managed to make this happen, no more SAT or cable in house. The minute any fucking company gets any more invasive over my property line, I sever all ties.
And how much % is Fillip earning from every ad they force upon us? I think this could equal billions and billions of dollars in revenue.
is there already a patent for a TV on wheels that follows you around the house nagging you to buy some products.. when you finally snap and yell "oh, okay, i'll buy your fracken new subway sandwich" - it flicks back to regular TV, and wheels itself back to its 'default position'.
Actually, I think #50 (and #38, even though he was being sarcastic) have it right -- Philips is patenting this to keep other companies from using it. Philips has opposed these anti-consumer things in the past -- remember their campaign to avoid requiring content protection in home electronics?
#34, you really need to get back on your meds. Wishing cancer on people because of a patent that they haven't even tried to use is just childish.
I think for prior art they submitted my patent whereby I force people to sit in hard chairs and watch vacation slides for hours on end. If they try to leave, I have people whip them... The only difference is they think people will pay for this kind of torture - I usually have to provide treats.
I have a DirecTivo and skip commercials religiously. In fact I often miss new shows and special shows because I didn't see the commercial for them.
Seriously, developments like this make me wonder why the media companies and advertisers hate their consumers so much.
Advertisers need to get cozy with the idea of product placement and ad banners at the bottom of the screen. Product placement can work. I do notice when every vehicle on Alias is a Ford. On the other hand, working in tampons for the product placement approach might be a bit awkward and Immodium could be either gross or hillarious depending on your mental age.
"The reason why this would happen is because with the creation of the DVR, more and more people are not watching commercials"
This is nothing new. Think VCR. While DVR's numbers are growing, more people still use the VCR to record their programs and they fast forward through commercials just as they have done for the past. Advertisors have been crying themselves all the way to the bank on this issue for the past 20+ years.
Instead of providing Dave button capabilities they do this crap? How cannot an advertiser do better than be able to have the audience push a button and get the contact info? That sure as heck is better than pissing people off.
People really need to start thinking about what they are saying. Would you rather pay fees to watch T.V. on top of paying for whatever servive you are using (Excluding basic T.V. which is funded almost ENTIRELY by ads)? Seriously. I think this idea isn't too bad. The only ads I hate are the Barbie ads and any ads for little kids. As long as the ads are creative and are on a topic I like, I don't mind watching them.
My son recomended this site to me, and for this story I am vey glad because I am TOTALLY DUMPING all of my Phillips stock as we speak. If this is really true then Ill hardly be the only one.
Philips " let's make things better"
Is this the way.
Do not buy Their Products ,it is like Dictatorship.
It's worth remembering that that vast majority of patents do not become commerical products. If anything, this would lower the number of people who watch commercials.
This reminds me of DVDs today how you aren't able to skip past the opening trailers & previews. I bought the DVD yet 5 years from now, I still have to sit through previews of "Ocean's Eleven". I hate that!
Hello, I chaired the group that wrote the MHP PVR specification - there is no such flag as standard in the spec. Philips could add one as a Philips-specific flag but it wouldn't apply to the other manufacturers. Secondly, as currently specificed there is no way for an MHP application to take control of the channel switching function, so changing channels always works.
Regards,
Paul
What really is at the core of the problem is control over the content that is delivered to our home. Where does it stop? The entertainment industry has been trying or years to take control of exactly how all content is delivered and viewed by consumers. This is just another brick in the wall.
So Evan, you whole post is complete and utter bollocks!! Why don't you apologise for your mistake?
I love how everyone is saying that they will download all the programs from the net. We all seem to be forgetting that the reason there are television shows are the ads. They pay for these shows. If there are no ads then there are no shows. So what next? I love my shows but if they take this route then it may be time for all of us to start enjoying theatre and a good book. That is until advertisers force ads onto those mediums also.
lol @ the update & comment from Paul Bristow, making Engadget look like idiots...again.
#80, and your the bigger idiot to keep coming to this site and blasting Engadget as "idiots". Honestly, if you think this site is so useless and the posts so idiotic, why do you take the time to read the articles and post here? I, for one, do not believe everything I read at any Blog site, or any other news site for that matter.
Just move on....
this is just sooo stupid. why are they so concerned about us DVR owners fast forwarding through commercials. as i understand it, DVR owners are a very small segment of the television viewing audience. the general masses don't even have DVR's yet they're worried about us?? FACISTS.
Isn't that illegal? That MUST be illegal! To FORCE you to watch commercials? All these things to stop you doing things, something is bound to happen sooner or later, people with rebel or something, hackers will change it.
[quote] And BANG, no more Philip's in my house.[/quote]
Don't forget to toss out your CD's, they were invented by Philips. And be sure to check every piece of eletronics, because Philips is a pretty big player in the semiconductor market.
As a Dutch person is have fixed feelings about Philips. Almost all their products aren't quite perfect. If it isn't the look of a product it's the firmware/software and vice versa. But inovation-wise they're one of the best compagnies around.
But i'm wondering what they're gonna do with this patent, I hope they don't do anything stupid
@ 83 / Thill : "#80, and your the bigger idiot"
Well that "sentence" explains who the real idiot is. Thanks for coming out Thill!
It may not be such a stupid idea to force people to watch commercials. You just have to make sure there's something in it for the viewers. Like not having to pay anything for your plasma TV, or being payed to watch TV.
o rly, why do you take the time to read and post (of which about 90% of your posts are complete garbage) so much on this site if you hate it, and it's articles so much? Honestly, dont't you realize that this article was not written by Engadget, it was written by another source? Did you not notice the fact that Engadget posted updates to the article based on Paul's commentary? Do you really think that this is a secret plot by Engadget to sabotage Phillips? Do you not understand the whole concept behind Engadget?
I think this is about the tenth time I have seen you post a comment stating what an idiotic site this is, yet I see you post here all the time. You are such a tool...
Thill I don't recall saying I hated this site, if you can provide a link saying so, I'd like to see it; but like your other posts, it's complete utter trash with nothing to back it up. Your posts have always been worthless and you will deny that like you deny your Apple / iPod fanboyism.
and remember, Philips is an evil corporation, lol, dumbass.
This is the part where you reply with something cool like calling me a "tool" and have a statement that shows how daft you really are (re: "your the bigger idiot" and "Just move on...." yet continuing to post & reply yourself.)
If you don't "just move on" Thill, you can try again, but judging by your previous attempts, you'll most likely fail...again.
o rly, honestly the best you can come back with is calling me an Apple/iPod fanboy? Hahaha. How old are you? 10? This is especially ironic considering that I listened to my Samsung Yepp player at the gym this morning...
So, do you now understand the concept that Engadget does not actually author all the content on this site?
One more thing, I happen to own a number of Philips products and have always been happy with them. When I wrote that "Philips is an evil corporation" it was supposed to be sarcastic... Oh wait, let me define sarcasm so you understand for future reference:
"a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language"
"o rly, honestly the best you can come back with is calling me an Apple/iPod fanboy? Hahaha. How old are you? 10?"
This coming from the person who said "You are such a tool..."
I guess I shouldn't call someone a fanboy, as that makes me 10 years old; I should call someone a "tool" because that is so much more mature.
Another post by Thill full of contradictions yet lacking any sense or evidence, but there's the typical "I can't be a fanboy of 'X' because I used 'Y' one time" type statement, and you can't forget the backpedaling, no wait, that's "sarcasm" which is odd seeing as you lack any level of wit.
btw, this is the part where you accuse me of being a Microsoft (and subsequently Philips) fanboy, yet not provide any evidence, similar to your "o rly hates Engadget" accusation above.
@Paul Bristow -- # 80
So basically, what you're saying is... that we have YOU to blame for this? I will refrain from writing the "first" words that comes to mind, and simply say; What is it with your little "Committees" and "Group", that you feel the need to constantly re-invent the egg?
Television is fine the way it is! All we want is for the the signal up to be bumped up to 1080p... that's it. People hate commercials, learn to live with it. I'm sorry..."there is no such flag as standard", is that some sort of clever "exec-u-speak" for " we haven't got around to installing it yet?" Nobody's impressed Paul. However, we are VERY annoyed.
This is an outrage. How dare they try to force consumers to watch all of the inane commercials that air. I won't tolerate this and I won't be buying anything Royal Philips. Marketers will just have to come up with different and new ways to get their messages out.