We've had to sit on this one for a while, but it's about time we showed you guys at least one possible form
Microsoft's Argo / Xbox-branded wireless portable media player could take. Sent to us from an insider working on the project, we're told the device pictured above is indeed a part of "Project Argo," and from what we can tell it definitely jibes from the
blurry pics we caught a while back; though if the piece from earlier today is to be believed, this could just be one of numerous Microsoft portables. It's hard to tell just how much larger the screen on this thing actually is, but it does indeed appear to be a 4:3 aspect ratio display, and could be 3, even 3.5-inches wide. Keep your eyes peeled, you know we do our best to have this stuff as early as possible.
posted Jul 10th 2006 4:52PM
Impressive design indeed...please, let the price wars begin!
If this is it, then I'm impressed. Not bad looking at all. Hopefully MS will ship players with 100GB hard drives 'cause I have mad music to store.
i wonder where they got the idea for that little wheel in the middle???
what does it have to do with xbox? i hope you dont play games on that thing!
Digg this - http://digg.com/gadgets/Microsoft_s_Argo_Xbox_Wireless_Portable_Media_Player_Revealed!
So that's the long-rumored Microsoft iPod killer? Ick. I was expecting more, especially if J. Allard is running the design aspect of the project.
i'm getting one.
never got an ipod cause i thought it was too cliche(or whatever you call it), but this thing should be cool. and i'm one of the "few" microsoft supporters out there.
yeah really what does XBOX have to do with a media player???
If this isn't a development version of the item, which it probably is, but if it isn't then this is going to be ugly. The design is there but it needs the materials
WHAT AN IPOD RIP!
With that out of the way, not bad, not bad.
Look ugly....Yuck
That thing is hideous. I'm sure if will have to be rebooted twice during every movie and somehow someone will manage to infect it with viruses and spyware ;)
stop calling it an ipod-rip. if thats what you think, fine. then go back to your ipods.
and im not an ipod-hater, as i use a nano.
anyways, this looks very cool, and im excited to see the specs
3 or 3.5 inches wide would make it "fairly" larger than an iPod, but the screen wouldn't be that much larger (ignoring the potential larger aspect ratio).
The interface seems fairly silly since they have to avoid infringing on Apple's design while still copying it.
marcin, how much more cliche is it to buy into a lookalike 4 years after everyone else bought the real thing?
if this is it, then they have already failed in their mission to unseat the iPod...
Count me in as well... If this thing integrates with my Xbox360 that will be sweet.
jobs = jobs - 1
Can we all say "patent infringement"?
I'm guessing to work around that, the wheel doesn't click. Which means there are two buttons on this thing - play/pause and back.
Now, maybe that's all you need. But what the hell do you do if you want to skip forward??
Anyway, my first reaction to the design of this is that it's one of the better iPod copies I've seen. Though that's probably not a compliment to MS's design team.
My second reaction, though, is that it looks cheap. Spraypainted wheel, ugly black framing that hides the seams inherent to loose production controls. It's a common design trick.
The quality of the photo itself, and the staging, is too good for me to excuse this as a pre-production example. This looks like a PR shot. Not good.
looks like a 3rd gen ipod ripoff.
idiots.
they should have tried harder.
Yeah, i've play with this thing already, and its pretty big at first, the screen is nice and all, you can play movies, and has FM radio but its just too big, its thick and bulky, the wheel is tactile so no touch pad. It freezes ever so often but I hope they fix that before official release. And You can't restart once it freezes, so you have to let the battaries run out first.
seems like everythings an ipod rip off these days...
i agree with the first poster, lets see the firmware. if its like microsofts past firmware stuff, it should crash in no time at all.
stop it with the 'iPod rip!' crap. A wheel is an effecient way to scroll, everything with a wheel doesnt mean the copied the iPod, it means they learned from the iPod.
Here's to hoping that thats not the final design, looks intriguing, but Not elegant.
The lack of next and previous hint that there might be side buttons, which most despise of. But, if thats a good, vibrant screen there Might be a good chance itll compete in the video market.
But probably not. (xbox360 integration would be neat if done right)
So you can pause, okay, play, yeah, rewind, uh huh, but how the hell do you go forward?
This thing looks like crap, reminds me of something creative would put out. In the 90's! Zing!
I feel the 3rd generation iPod vibe from the buttons, but the design looks more like that of the 360 than that of your average iPod ripoff.
I mean, holy shit, it has a circular button thing, it must be ripping off the iPod. Please.
M$ shows no shame. They'll take what OS X they can to put in Vista, now they'll take what iPod they can to make a MP3 payer. I wouldn't enjoy working at M$. Everything has to be "playing catch up" there.
Hey, here's a more up to date picture:
http://static.flickr.com/72/186755056_546e1dc532.jpg
cannot wait for the sony ericsson w950i to come out. it will make these types of devices meaningless (ipod, creative, etc). i mean who wouldn't want 4GB of GSM phone loving in their pockets (with bluetooth headphones to boot)?
as far as this post, M$ has some more work to do to match the elegant designs that are out there.
Listen, I've owned abour 4 iPods, and all of them "crash" or freeze fairly often.
Same with my PSP. About the only thing that doesn't crash that I own is my full-size Apple Powerbook. But hell, that's a Powerbook...
Anyway,
MS better make some user detachable/replaceable batteries for this, though. And this can't be the real handheld. Why would they just throw out an iPod clone?
No Xboy/gaming controls? Multimedia controls by touchscreen? If not, how the hell can you really watch movies with 3 input methods?
If it's wireless, how can it communicate with your 360? The 360 doesn't have Bluetooth... USB connectivity? Ummm, what's diff than my iPod then?
This can't be it. And if MS is just gonna throw out like 3 diff elec. devices, that effort will crash. We ALREADY have that. Give us one unified media/gaming/wireless communication device, no bigger than a PSP, with a good-sized HD and touch screen.
One. Not an Ipod clone & then a PSP clone & then a...
Looks pretty nice... I've allready got a 60gb iPod (the new ones..but don't use it for video) so I don't really care about this.
And the Xbox branding? I'm sure it has to do with the "Live Anywhere" Microsoft announced. This will probably allow you to download movies from Live and play them on your 360 or on your DAP or whatever.. not to mention whatever music service MS has up their sleave (I reead somewhere that they aren't doing Urge for long once this is out but that could be wrong)
"at least one possible form Microsoft's Argo / Xbox-branded wireless portable media player could take"
You can trust microsoft to make sexy sleek everything. For god's sake, I can't stop looking at my Microsoft DigitalMedia Pro Keyboard. It looks /good/.
Microsoft pays firms millions to design these things, so if this variation (that might not even be a final marketed product) doesn't tickle your fancy, then one of the other ones will. The 360 turned out great, my keyboard is amazing, and Vista's interface is great. I'm not too worried about their ability to make an mp3 player.
The only way this will kill the Ipod is if it has wireless connectivity. Since I can stream video from my Slingbox to my Treo, this doesn't look like anyhting to be worried about.
it looks ok. a little bland. I think if they want to tie it into the 360, they should make that wheel look like the power button on the 360, with the lights around it for whatever. it would like classier than that awful grey at least.
I'm sure hoping this is a fake.
No company would spend millions on this design to put the wheel so low on the device that you can't move it with your thumb one-handedly.
If im not corrected, Microsoft own the patent to the iPods "clickwheel".
I likes iPods, i own a 4G, but come on, as soon as someone puts a circular shape on a device, a load of n00bs scream "iPod".
Predictable stupidity from the fanboys. MS could have copied the Ipod down to the Apple logo and they would still say its ugly. They are just that kooky. No one should take them seriously, they are part of a deranged cult and feel nothing can possibly be better than their Job-box.
Im into this design. I realize that its just an example mock-up. one of several. But Im sure that MS will go with the style from the 360, and thats just fine with me. Im looking forward to further details, and a REAL price war.
Hey correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't ipod video have a 1:1 ratio at least that is different.
Looks like 16:9 to me. Certainly widescreen
haha if you think the wheel is an IPOD ripoff. history lesson: check out the original Rio's circa 1998.
the wheel is not an IPOD innovation
cant wait for this to be released, price wars would be good for this IPOD maniac industry
"cannot wait for the sony ericsson w950i to come out. it will make these types of devices meaningless (ipod, creative, etc). i mean who wouldn't want 4GB of GSM phone loving in their pockets (with bluetooth headphones to boot)?"
i guess you've never owned a phone made by se? i have. my se t637 is a pos. they can put a 60gb drive in their next p-eleventy billion phone and i'll still pass on it.
tf, there are too many people with Ipods and if i were to buy an mp3 now, i'd go with creative.
but as mentioned, i support MS, and this product is bound to have more features and functionality then just playing music. thats the main reason i never bought into the ipod. i'm not that big into music, but if the product were to have more functionality such as an OS, i would consider it.
additionally, i dont know if its clear yet but Apple products such as the Nano and MacbookPro are not the best in terms of hardware. this whole idea of Apple breaking the market is not gonna happen if their hardware has defects.
Looks really good. I'm looking forward to the official specs announcement.
It's obviously a photoshop job. Look at the base. There is clearly and iPod jack down there. Also, the edges are 3rd gen iPod. Plus those buttons are from a 3rd gen iPod. The screen and wheel are from some cell phone/ PDA concept a while back too.
This is a fake.
Apple defects? What number Xbox 360 are you on?
If it controls the same as an iPod, somehow mysteriously works with iTunes someday, doesn't cost as much as a computer (like an iPod 60GB), a properly working MS OS (without all the fuss) and has a user-changable battery, I'm there.
If not, go back to the drawing board.
The device in the blurry picture had an antenna on it...
diablojota: If this had been submitted to engadget by some anonymous "tipster," I might share your skepticism, but unless the authority of the source--engadget claims it came from someone associated with the project--makes that difficult to believe. It's real, though perhaps not a final design.
Dear MS:
Please send me a touch-screen operated PMP for my Christmas... Oh yeah, and please let it have sleek curves, an intuitive interface, downloadable Wi-Fi content, X360 interopability, and amazing codec support...
Love,
Your Friend
^Hey, a guy can dream can't he?^
"Apple defects? What number Xbox 360 are you on?"
Number one.
Can't say the same for the iPod.
Ross, you are "corrected": Microsoft does not own the clickwheel patents, Apple does.
You were not correct, but now you are corrected.
heh, for those of you that said I was never an iPod fan because you didn't want to be part of the herd, then running out and buying this proves what? You wanna join the other herd instead? If Apple gets to wireless and full-on touch screen watch out - this thing looks three years ago already.
BORING!
That is NOT an ipod killer. Creative makes better looking devices than this POS.
If they're going to make an iPod killer, then they're going to have design something more innovative and better looking than the iPod. But design and innovation aren't MS's strong points are they.
All you losers who think that this is passable at best for good desing deserve whatever junk M$ feeds you.
Saying this is an iPod rip is like saying Toyota, BMW, etc all ripped Mercedes-Benz (or whoever was first.)
iPod rip or not, this is highly unattractive. Looks like something a kid playing around with product design for the first couple of months would make.
Umm...That screen is 16:9 (sideways) not 4:3. Learn your aspect ratios!
Damn it...
:)
"i guess you've never owned a phone made by se? i have. my se t637 is a pos. they can put a 60gb drive in their next p-eleventy billion phone and i'll still pass on it."
You must have had a dud, SE makes some of the most solid, feature packed phones on the market right now. That and its probably time to upgrade your 2+ yr old phone.
They really should go with a more 360-ish feel on this thing. And I wanna see OS! A variant on the blade system, maybe?
This is a good step in the right direction, but this shouldn't be the final product.
I like how everyone deems a scroll wheel as ripping off the ipod. Its a good idea and if it ain't broke don't fix it. Also, you try inventing something as tactile and easy to use as the scroll wheel (or heck BETTER than the scroll wheel) then you can talk.
Otherwise this player has potential, I am def. a fan of minimalist. Now lets see what msoft can do with content/hardware/support then I will be impressed (and maybe even buy one).
I think the sides are from an iMac. The screen could be from anywhere. The buttons are from a 3rd gen iPod and the "click wheel" looks like part of some cheap $5 computer speaker.
I really hope they use slave labor to build them. That is the real reason I love my iPod. All the blood, sweat and tears makes my music sound so much sweeter.
and who said that microsoft copies apple...?
this thing doesn't look a thing like an ipod....
Man... you can smell an iPod fan from a mile away!!! How many comments are on here about this being a rip off of the iPod!!! Damn!! And all you people saying it is gonna suck when you have no idea what it even does yet or whether or not it is a real image!!! RELAX!!!
If this thing has some cool stuff like wireless Windows Media Connect it is going to be AWESOME! And I would bet you that it is going to have a cool "Blade" type interface like the 360!
All you iPod lovers take off your stupid white headphones and open your eyes to whats available out there!
Okay.. thank you Adam (btw if anyone wants a link here:
http://www.engadget.com/2005/08/26/rio-audio-rip-1998-2005/
)
but aside from that... i'm gonna be a bit of a smartass for a second.
http://www.oldradioworld.de/ve301g.jpg
OMG someone traveled into the future and stold the design of the iPod and since they couldnt replicate it they made a radio instead...
seriously.. wtf. Almost every cellphone i've owned in the last 6+ years had a wheel-like button interface for accessing the menu... Laptops have had touchpad's for years, which were used to effectively utilize the "start menu" on the windows boxes.. oh my...
and no.. i'm not a microsoft apologist, i dont care for them, but get over yourselves, apple is not origional, its just shiny.
16x9 aspect ratio easily achieved if turned sideways.
RuinedSucks:
"The device in the blurry picture had an antenna on it..."
The antenna is aka a headphone jack.
As for the patent buisness check these out:
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-5830435.html
http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,68544,00.html?tw=wn_story_top5
http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2005/08/17/ipods_wheel_patent_its_er_welll_microsofts/
Decide for yourself.
"...but it does indeed appear to be a 4:3 aspect ratio display..."
that's 16:9 aka widescreen (albeit rotated 90 degrees), 4:3 would be much closer to a square.
Interesting design. I don't care for the dark border around the screen and the center "wheel" but
"Apple defects? What number Xbox 360 are you on?"
Personally I'm on my orignial 360 and am onto my 6th and final ipod. i would have stayed with my sony NW1 if it wasn't for the piece of crap called sony connect
@Jordan
Apple isn't the first device to have a screen and round dial in the middle.
http://img.2dehands.nl/f/normal/10435027.jpg
Interesting design. I don't care for the dark border around the screen and the center "wheel", but it's looking like the device can be oriented as shown when playing music, orturned 90 degrees for watching video/photos/gaming.
However the design is of secondary importance to me. I need to know exactly what it can do and which codecs are supported before I decide whether I want one.
This is an Ipod rip off and I hate Ipods.
MS supporters complain that Sony copied Nintendo's Wii motion sensitive controller, but then praise MS for stealing from Apple. Pathetic!
This is not 16x9 people - you're wrong engadget is right, just because it's turned on it's side you are allowing yourself to be the victim of an optical illusion. The screen in this picture measures about 200w x 266h which is a ratio of 3x4 (.75:1), which when turned on it's side becomes... wait for it... 4x3 (1.33:1).
To be 16x9 (1.78:1), the screen woud need to measure 355 pixels tall at the same width. yes, 16 is almost double 9... not just 33% more.
Forget about functionality, appearance, ipod similarities & everything else. They've named this thing after the Starblazer Argo? Who could aks for more? Sign me up Bill.
Who is supplying the chips?
tia
I'm not feeling the design, at all. It reminds of the ipod too of much; bland, vanilla, and ugly. In other words it's like the Toyota Camery of the DAP industry, nothing offensive, once again, like the ipod. On the otherhand, it looks like microsoft took the toshiba Gigabeat:s' design and tuned it down to look like one of those no-name generic rip off's, only of the gigabeat:s. Anyways, it will most likely trump the ipod has far as features and functionality, which isn't hard to do.
I think I'll stick to my Zen Vision:m.
This isn't MS's so called iPod killer. if it was, it would have pointless swoopy curves that invoke "movement" nor does it have XBOX or Microsoft written in big ugly graphics all over it. This looks like a bad Product Design student's first year model making project. Trust me. MS's thing will look AWFUL just like the xbox 360 does.
All you people who are getting pissed at the "iPod Rip off" statements need to realize that this REALLY is a RIP OFF! Come on, I can think of no less that 3 new interfaces for a pmp or dap. How about a small, shallow joystick like the ones found on the xbox controller? Shallow and recessed into the body of the player? Or how about a touchpad like the ones found on laptops? I personally prefer a touchpad to a mouse. Much better interface in my opinion. And lastly, how about some touch sensitive buttons on the side with a slim touchpad strip on the face for volume control/navigation? I mean really. If you are going to put a wheel on the from of your PMP or DAP and have the SAME EXACT form factor, you have to expect to be called a rip-off. Dont be hating just because Apple has a great design and owns the DAP market.
OK, Microsoft...time to flex those mega-billion dollar muscles. Why not give these things away (free, gratis and for nothing)...or sell them at a loss...anything to take control of the market.
Cut the economic legs out from under them.
It looks terrible. Not classy at all, but if they replaced the cheap flaky lookin' grey paint, with something less gaudy, it would look alot better.
Dan is right. The screen is 4:3 aspect ratio. Just because one side is longer doesn't mean it's 16:9.
Well, I'm disappointed. That doesn't look like anything particularly cool or special at all -- just another MP3 player. Guess I'll stick with my iPods if that's the final design.
Ross, again, you are wrong. You said clickwheel and then point to 1 patent 3 times that refers to the UI and playlist generation. I guess there's not much reason to talk to you because I doubt you're getting it.
I like it. Its probably a fake but, whatever. I like it.
I hope they used scratch resistant materials like my Sansa e260. If not that thing is gonna look hidius in about a week.
*sigh*
"rip off"
iPods were not the first to have an interface that used a circle. I remember a small device, Rio PMP 300 that surprisingly existed before the iPod.
It looks bland. Not ugly, but definitely not as sexy as an iPod or the Xbox 360.
>If this thing has some cool stuff like wireless Windows >Media Connect it is going to be AWESOME! And I would bet >you that it is going to have a cool "Blade" type >interface like the 360!
Man... you can smell a MS fan from a mile away!!!
that's a round touch sensitive pad, not a 'click wheel'.
it'll be kinda like an analog stick on a game console, or a touchpad on a laptop, not limited to going in circles like an ipod.
I wish i knew why everyone was so excited about the IPOD. The reality is that Microsoft was the first software company to release a "portable MP3/WMA/MPEG etc..." Video player....! They did it years ago with the first PMC's (portable music centers) and then Apple made a song and dance about their so called "world first" Video IPOD. Gime a break, and give MSFT credit where its due. Fact is, that MSFT has been trying to walk the line between "not being a HW company, and only being SW company" for the last 30 years, and now has decided to give up on its HW partners who still cannot seem to make a PC that looks as cool as an Apple or a MP3 player that looks a cool as an IPOD. YES, Apple has VERY COOL looking products, and a cool brand that MSFT will never have, but frankly there are many innovaions that have come out of Redmond...(Tablet PC for one...i would like to see a Mac do that!....Media Center PC's etc........) Lastly, i am a software developer and while Billg may have made millions, i can tell you that millions of us developers and other msft partners have shared in the riches. Who make money in the Apple world? NO ONE, other than a few lousy IPOD add on companys....thats it...end of rant :o)
Umm, sorry to burst your bubble, but, that screen size is NOT 4:3 (1.66:1) ratio, it's more a 9:16 (1.83:1) or Letterbox (2.35:1) or CinemaScope (2.33:1), my closest guess would be 9:16...
err, 1.33:1 (4:3), and, i work for a cinema and see the ratios every day...
Lets take a step back here.
"This is an iPod Rip off!!!"
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And the iPod was not the first DAP with a scroll wheel.
"This is very ugly"
Yes, It is ugly and bland
"This is just like Vista stealing from OSX!!!"
OSX is a composite of various elements that were in Open Source projects in the 90's and 2000's. Fanboys have to see, this is the computer industry. Everyone is "inspired" by and steals from everyone else.
@DC: The dark border around the screen improves the experience when watching video. With a black border around the screen, the human eye perceives the image to have better contrast & a sharper picture with brighter colors.
@Ray: Actually, like someone said above it's EXACTLY 1.33:1 if you measure it. It's 260px by 200px.
i'm on my first xbox 360, the one i won and received on november 16th.
as for apple, all i read about are Nano class action lawsuits and macbook pro hardware failures.
would you people chill out i am sure some revisions will be made to at least the outside of the thing, colors perhaps. everyone is quick to hate on something just from a early shot of it which probably is one of many designs they are deciding on.
Let the countdown for the first "Project Argo" virus begin....
NOW!
I would have expected more from Microsoft but all they seem to do lately is "cut and paste" with their hardware designs. They could have done so much more and THIS is what they come up with.
ipod has a good design and thats probably why they used that idea, but it would be awesome if this thing is just a hard drive. i dont like the fact that i have to have a specific program just to put my media on it and that you need a hack to get your media off it. if microsoft can make it to where you can get your stuff on and off it easily then i think it will outsell the ipod.
What do you wanna bet that, to watch videos, you turn the thing sideways. Remember the fake wide screen ipod video? This is just the same thing, only no greasy screen.
I think it's ugly, and something that's design is the same as everyone else. A screen with a wheel, across the board.
If microsoft wants to dethrone the ipod, then do what apple did, it's something they don't know how to do tho. Innovate. Yep that's right innovation. Take that wheel off and find a better EASIER way of doing it.
Most companys trying to create this ipod killer, wont, and will fail again and again. By adding more features, they complicate things, more buttons, more switches. You can't just add more features and expect the user to learn how to use them. Make it natural, so they use the features by just interacting with it.
Make it simple, make the features accessable. iPods are everywhere because even grandma can use them, and doesn't feel intimidated by it. Maybe someday some company will figure it out. Until then, creations like this will just join the pile of failed attempts.
Once again, ugly concept. Anyone who likes it is probably behind a beige box.
Stop being morons... this is "A DESIGN" don't you guys recall the xbox360 design videos they had almost 15 different case designs until they settled on this one we have today...
as for failure rates... im on my first xbox360... second xbox1... 3rd ps2... fifth ipod, and my brother is on his 2nd nano..... and if you want to go further my mom is on her third macbookpro since it decided to discolor and the first one she had overheating issues.... MS quality of hardware is ALOT better than most companys unfortunately LAME fanboys try to make it seem otherwise and bash microsoft i find it quite lame.
As for THIS model as it's shown (Since as i said there are probably 10-20 designs on the table they are deciding on) i love the larger screen and nice small formfactor... i'd love the screen to be a little larger and take more of the top of the device up ... i hope the production units are nice and solid and use good materials that dont have the standard ipod issues of scratching the hell out of them so easily and broken screens.
If they can do that and provide a nice OS maybe a mobile xbox360 dashboard :) then it will be a hit 100%... ah and add WLM notifications :)
Sean: i hate to say this reinventing the wheel (pardon the pun) is not the answer... it's a great solution to mobile devices and doesn't need to change... thers a reason all the iPod's have it because it works. theres a reason most cell phones have it... because it works...
As for the guy up top talking about vista and osx... give me a break they both steal from each other the fact is if they didn't we wouldn't have competition... why you ask? simple if microsoft had the square box called a window then what exactly would people put the content in to drag around? ... wow i guess the LCD crowd copied the CRT guys because they have a border around the screen....
as for a black border around the screen on a media device its smart and true it improves perception of image... thats why theaters and home theaters are suggested to have black cloth around where projections are done.
Good thing Apple is going back to metal casings. Microsoft will be up to its ears in last years iPod design, as Apple moves back to slick metal; which they should have never dropped.
please Microsoft !!!! How many billions are you saving by not hiring a good italian industrial designer to come up with something original? c'mon "J"...man! I could do it better!