http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
[2] Does this mean you can only get it if your cable operater offers it, or will I be able to buy one myself?]]>Jul 19th 2006 10:00AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 19th 2006 10:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 19th 2006 10:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
As long as the price is under $500, I'm sure many will buy it.]]>Jul 19th 2006 10:35AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
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r - as for the degradation of series 2 tivos - the reason for that is that it has to encode an analog signal into a digital mpeg format. This encoding process looses some of the signal quality, also if you are recording on anything other than the best quality it is even worse.

As for price my guess and the speculation that i have heard is that it is going to be around 1000. If i remember right that was the price of the Direct TV HD Tivo back in the day. I would love to see it priced around 500 if it was i would probably get it over a new Vista MCE, but at 1000 I feel you might as well get a full MCE computer. ]]>Jul 19th 2006 11:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
TiVo will supply its own program guide data as part of your TiVo subscription.

r: No, the HD TiVo will not degrade the signal if you record it. It's all digital, so the signal is simply plopped right on the hard drive, with no analog/digital conversion necessary, and no associated degradation of image quality.]]>Jul 19th 2006 11:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
Despite craptastic TiVo hardware longevity and the aging interface, it's still worlds better than my parents' DirecTV DVR and the Dish Network DVR my in-laws have.

TiVo is the lesser of evils. I dare anyone to come up with something as cheap and with elegant an ease-of-use factor. Do it and I'm there!

(And no, a media center PC running some version of Windows is NOT the answer).]]>Jul 19th 2006 11:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
I definitely want one to replace my series 2. I hope it comes with a 300GB HD or firewire HD addon capability. I need that space.]]>Jul 19th 2006 11:39AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 19th 2006 11:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 19th 2006 11:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 19th 2006 11:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 19th 2006 11:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 19th 2006 11:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 19th 2006 12:07PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
It's "champing at the bit" not "chomping at the bit"]]>Jul 19th 2006 12:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
Unless something has changed since CES (and that's possible, I just haven't heard anything about it), it will either accept two 1.0 cards or a single 2.0 card (capable of both dual tuning and all the upstream communication features).]]>Jul 19th 2006 12:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
Secondly cablecard support is coming for HTPC in the form of Windows Vista. They have confirmed you will be able to record via card to your HTPC and even further that you will be able to send HD recording to extender devices (including the X360). Ofcourse we may have to wait another few years before Vista actually comes out :D (more likely though is sometime Q107 unless Ati starts shipping the cable card readers sooner in which case you could use the beta version of vista)]]>Jul 19th 2006 12:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
Althought "Champing" is the original usage, "Chomping" is fine. Look it up.

Love my DirecTV HD Tivo, and I not about to switch to cable, but I certainly wish they'd do something about the limited, and outdated, feature set.
]]>Jul 19th 2006 1:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
If I wanted to use PPV & on-demand, would I need both a STB and a CableCARD? If I had both, could I use the "cable out" connection on the STB to go into the "in" connection on the CARD and record in HiDef on the TiVo?

There are 2 CARD slots, so if I had 2 of them, could I put a splitter on the cable coming into the house, and have one end go into one CARD, and the other go into the STB, and then come out of the STB & go into the other CARD?

Any suggestions as to where I could ask more questions about this stuff (other than my crappy cable company, Time Warner)? Thanks...]]>Jul 19th 2006 1:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
The series 3 does, however, have a dual tuner. I am unsure, however, if it can record two shows in HD at the same time. (I know the Series 2 which has a dual tuner will only work with one cable box, not two.) If the S3 lets you record simultaneously in HD, then you can have ONE cablecard in the back, and the STP hooked up to the TiVo's video input (through HDMI i'd assume). But in that situation, you'd still only use ONE cablecard.]]>Jul 19th 2006 2:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 19th 2006 2:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 19th 2006 3:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
Guys, this thing will undoubtedly go over like a lead baloon (and this, from a TiVo fan). The issue isn't TiVo, it is CableCard. The instant the evil cable co's figure out that CableCard would undercut their STB rental fees and make people actually have to CALL THEM to order PPV and premium content, did they start to kill it. The final blow that caused the acceleration of this vicious murder was when they realized they could sell advertisment space on their own EPG, and would lose that if the user actually had a CHOICE in STB and EPG. Now there's some nice fair market competition, eh?]]>Jul 19th 2006 3:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
As far as tivo v. MCE I have both and there are a lot of things that MCE does better than Tivo - for example the fact access to your music and photos is 100% better on an MCE, also you have access to movies and if you have a big enough HD you can rip dvds right into your movie collection. As far as the DVR comparasion I think that Tivo does take some of the work out of it and there are some added hassels with MCE but they are pretty minor. I think that when the vista media centers start coming out they are going to do pretty well - I plan on getting one.

PS - plus you never have to pay a mo subscription fee for a MCE :). ]]>Jul 19th 2006 3:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
It looks like the two big questions are whether the CableCARD supports PPV & OnDemand, and will the S3 be able to simultaneously record two HD programs. However, Tim Jebara may be correct with regard to the overall cost of a cable sub + a TiVo sub + a TiVo S3 box. Maybe I'll just wait to see how much a Vista HTPC will be...]]>Jul 19th 2006 4:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
Is the cable company (in my case ComCast) REQUIRED to give you a CableCard if you ask? Can they force you to have a STB elsewhere (or at least pay for one). Even though my TV only accepts a 1.0 CC, I'd love to ditch the STB completely. I don't use PPV or OnDemand.

Answers appreciated.]]>Jul 19th 2006 4:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
Yes, they are REQUIRED to give you a CableCARD when you ask, but my Comcast area does some pretty shady things to discourage it.

1. They price the cable card the same as a Digital box: $6.95

2. They have separate techs to install CableCARDS -- and these techs take over 1 month to schedule.

Really shady practices, IMHO.

]]>Jul 19th 2006 4:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
]]>Jul 19th 2006 4:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
I really dig my Dish VIP622 box but have a soft spot and miss my good ol Tivo interface.]]>Jul 19th 2006 4:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
1. 500 gb hard drive that records 6 sd/hd streams @ the same time while watching a seventh prerecorded stream.

2. Directv/TiVo customers get ALL updates the stand alone models get. I want the 7.31 tivo software...NOW!!!

3. Interactive services

4. 1 touch recording

5. 30/60/90 skip back and forth

6. A new mosiac style epg w/ multi pip

7. Removal of all vestiges of DRM and Macrovision. Make the product open source. The reason I will NEVER buy the Directv+ is due to the limits on the product, the crappy software and the strong DRM.

8. 3sd/3hd tuners to record and store free VOD on a seperate 500 gb hd

As a consumer,I am already tired of that buggy pos called the Directv+ dvr. This may be wishful thinking, but, that crappy product should be scrapped asap.]]>Jul 19th 2006 6:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 19th 2006 6:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
- Pay your bill through the set-top box
- "Quick access menu" (Nav2 services), which give you a modified picture-in-picture, showing local/regional/national weather, headlines, local movie listings, movie trailers, etc.
- "Voting" via remote control

None of those services would be available through the S3, so if you wanted any of them, you'd still need a set-top box.

CableCARD 2.0 is in the final stages of ratification, but is not "final." Even when it becomes "final," it will still take quite a while before it's available in consumer devices, and by that time, we'll be hearing more about "Downloadable Conditional Access System" (DCAS), which is more advantageous for cable companies, so it'll probably render CableCARD obsolete altogether...

CC2 is backward-compatible, but that only means it will *work* in a CC1 slot--but it would function as a CC1, with its limitations. For a device like the S3 to be able to use a CC2 to its fullest potential, it needs hardware upgrades & certification, so you couldn't just plug a CC2 into the S3 and have it fully enabled.

Unfortunately, there's more bad news... Some cable companies--particularly Time Warner, are beginning to roll out something called Switched Digital Video (SDV), which, as I understand it, functions similarly to VoD, and because of that, any stream sent via SDV would not be picked up by CC1, so it would not be accessible with the S3. Since the objective of SDV is to save bandwidth, some HD channels are sent this way, so again, the S3 couldn't access it.

I'm sure the S3 will be great for some, but the limitations & costs make it less and less attractive to me. Unfortunately, it looks like I'm still stuck with crappy Time Warner...]]>Jul 19th 2006 7:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
I'm at the point of missing my tivo so much that I've already set a spending limit of $1000 for Series 3 box with Lifetime if they hit that point.

For those saying "but lifetime is gone!" Tivo has very carefully said that new lifetime subscriptions are no longer available for Series II devices, but has never said "..and they won't be offered for Series 3"

I'll bet they're going to offer Lifetime on Series 3 for some time, and especially to previous owners, it's the quickest way to get a massive userbase.

also bet on seeing a "non-lifetime" "tivo service lite" re: certain prior manufacturers that is provided with devices.]]>Jul 19th 2006 7:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
Don't believe everything you read.;)

There are many apparent experts on this box all over the internet, which is especially interesting considering they have never used one and some have never even seen one. I’m sure they all have unimpeachable sources that could never be wrong, but there IS one thing that is certain.

When it's released, you will know for sure.

And some will be very surprised. Some even pleasantly.
:)]]>Jul 21st 2006 1:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
Of course it's all speculation... No one knows for sure except those who know, and they're not telling. However, an educated guess, based on currently-available information and precedent, is that it seems HIGHLY unlikely that all the planets will align in TiVo's favor, and CableCARD 2 will be ready for consumer devices prior to the release of the S3.

What we know for sure is that the only thing finalized about CableCARD 2 are the specs, and they were only just recently finalized. What that tells us is that it's still a long ways away from being produced & implemented. If TiVo plans on releasing the S3 within, say, the next 6 months, it's a pretty safe bet it will precede the release of CableCARD 2, which means the S3 *will not* be able to fully utilize all the functions of CC2, period.

We know that CC2 will be backward-compatible, but when used in a CC1 device, it will only work as a CC1. Therefore, if the S3 is released prior to the CC2, it will have all the limitations outlined in one of my above posts.

Information about CC1, CC2, DCAS, and SDV is available on dozens of credible sites.

One other thing: no one hopes I'm wrong about this more than I! :o)]]>Jul 21st 2006 6:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/Jul 22nd 2006 9:01AM