Zune: what we know, think we know, and don't yet know

Ok, so we got off the horn with Microsoft just a few minutes ago and realized that making heads or tails of all this Zune stuff is probably driving some of you crazy . (We know others are probably just getting driven crazy by all the posts we've been writing about it. Sorry, it's our job!) So here's what we know for sure, think we know according to inside sources (i.e. yet unconfirmed information), and what we don't yet know at all about the Zune.

What we know (for sure)

• Zune is the name of the project, the brand, and the device.
• The first Zune device will be launched this year, with more devices to come in 2007.
• The Zune brand encompasses not only the device, but the software that will drive it, as well as a music, movie, and media service the Zune device family will use for acquiring, sharing, and discovery of said media. Music will be the first angle of service that is launched, "connected entertainment" being the ultimate goal.
  
• The Zune media service will heavily leverage community aspects and recommendation; emphasis is being placed on using Zune to discover new artists, media, etc.
• The Zune media device will be drive-based, and have WiFi.
• The Zune brand is intended to be an entirely vertically integrated end-to-end solution, not unlike the iPod / iTunes / iTunes Music Store triumvirate.
• The service and device will not be PlaysForSure compliant, meaning you will not be able to use your Zune player with Napster or Vongo, for example. This will be an entirely new system. Microsoft will continue to support and develop for their PlaysForSure initiative, but all things PlaysForSure are handled by two entirely separate division that will not have any crossover.
  
• Zune is under Microsoft's new Entertainment & Devices Division, and is headed by, among others, Robbie Bach, J Allard (Corporate Vice President and Chief XNA Architect), and Bryan Lee (Corporate Vice President and CFO, Entertainment and Devices Division), which accounts for the division of this project from the rest of Microsoft, similar to how the Xbox project was also strictly separated.
• The logo we had is, of course, real.
• Microsoft's launched the Zune viral marketing site, ComingZune.com. [Thanks, bv]

What we think we know (and are pretty sure of)

• They'll be showing off the device by the end of next month, and will aim for a November release.
• Microsoft will buy your way out of iTunes in order to convert you to a Zune user.
  
• The Zune will come in multiple colors.
• Pyxis is the codename for their nano competitor which would also include video capabilities; Alexandria is the codename for the software that powers the Zune experience.
• A Microsoft portable gaming system is in the works, and will be a part of the Zune family. This device should have Xbox Live Anywhere integration. This may or may not be an Xbox co-branded portable, but is probably going to be the portable gaming / media device we've been hearing about for years.
• Microsoft's ad campaign will include a Super Bowl commercial.
• The Zune will have a bevy of accessories at launch; it'll probably be cheaper for accessory makers to develop for the Zune port than pay the Made For iPod tax.

What we don't yet know

• Whether the Zune media service will offer the same kind of all-you-can-eat subscription media services as PlaysForSure media services like Napster and Vongo. Supposedly subscription will be offered, but downplayed in favor of song purchase (which is the opposite of most PlaysForSure services).
  
• Whether you'll actually only be limited to sharing with up to 10 people nearby, as rumored, and that they won't get the protected files, but will "bookmark" them for later purchase.
• Exact device specifications for the first Zune device, as well as its price (though we hear it could be as much as $399).
• Whether it'll include XM and/or Sirius service as rumored (we doubt it).

Let the analysis begin!

[John Murray @ Jul 21st 2006 8:23PM]

If they let all the iPod owners buy in their iTunes purchases it will cost them a cool BILLION dollars. Want to bet Apple and iTunes won't encourage that? "Just go out and purchase a Zune, transfer all your iTunes music to it, give it a try and find you don't like it, and return it for a refund." Now see if the music owners will give Microsoft a refund! Looks like much fun from here.

[hellmit @ Jul 21st 2006 8:49PM]

"An unproven device, using an unproven service,"
Unproven? Its a New device and service, what would you expect?

"playing media with proprietary DRM,"
That sounds familiar.

"at a price that will probably top out OVER the high end iPods. Clearly this device will be dead-on-arrival."

Shut the hell up.

[Patrick @ Jul 21st 2006 8:52PM]

I am usually a silent observer on Engadget but I’d like to put my two cents into this:

Most of you, who are bashing MS here, are either on an XP platform or using MS word to spell-check your post before punching into here. Come on… let’s not forget how MS has changed the computer world and that ALL of us (one way or another) use MS products. I am not saying MS=angel I am just saying they have a lot to offer.

As for Apple and iPod, we all know there are better players out there. I just spent a couple of weeks studying players out there to upgrade from my small Creative Muvo to a HD based player. You know what I figured at the end? Even though there are better players out there, iPod gives me a little more than others do with TV show downloads and other “little” incentives. (for example, I love Law and order, well I can now get the whole season and watch it when I the move or when I am on-call.)

Zune is just another player…. It doesn’t mean it is going to “kill iPod” or be killed its first week. It just means that it has to win consumers like every other product.

As for Engadget writing about this… frankly that’s why I come to the site everyday… for the BUZZ. I am doc so I am not as “plugged” in to the tech world as I want to be but hay, this is my daily fix. I look at the summary page, if I see something I like, I click on it and read it. Why some of you are bitching at them for writing about Zune again today, I don’t understand.

MY humbled opinion is as follows: Apple has dominated the market b/c frankly the competition hasn’t been there thus far. It is not going to take MS to win some of the market back from Apple; it is going to take a better player, with better service, features and other bells and whistles to do that. Adding an FM tuner to an iPod look-alike isn’t going to cut it.

As for looks, yah Zune is not that attractive…. But then again neither was 1st generation iPod compared to today’s (which is a bit sleeker.)

As many of you mentioned already, let’s look at the positive here… The only thing for certain is that the consumer always wins with more competition. If you like your iPod then great… soon you’ll get to upgrade for a little less, and if you are salivating whilst looking at Zune, then good for your too! :D

[Intellectualdiot @ Jul 21st 2006 9:32PM]

Wow. I have to admit that I'm rather taken back by the amount of semi-childish vitrol towards a product that we know little about at the moment. From the general tone of this comment fest, you'd think that Engadget had taken to signing off each post with "Hail Osama!" or something.

Can we all just breath and wait until substantial, verified evidence arises for the Zune (which I've been told rhymes with "goon"... still trying to figure out the sure to be paramount relevance of that relationship) before we begin to pass judgement on the devices potential. A company name is neither a reason in itself to slander or praise a product. Or I suppose that's my naivety talking. M$ sucks!

(On a side note, does anyone have a clue what song that is on the Zune viral marketing site? I think it's pretty cool.)

[dave95 @ Jul 21st 2006 9:44PM]

Despite the countless coverage by Engadget, I have to agree this is big news and should be covered as such. They did say they had information for a while but held on it until it was OK to release. So it could have been worse people!

But the fact so many people are so negative on this player is MS track record of hyping a product only to be a huge let down once it's introduced.

Origami
Tablet PC
SPOT
WebTV

['sabre @ Jul 21st 2006 9:46PM]

""playing media with proprietary DRM,"
That sounds familiar."

Only because its the SINGLE BIGGEST FAULT iPod detractors constantly throw down against Apple. So...who goes and does it and (by the by) shoots in the back all the DAP manufacturers that have bought into the Plays For Sure license.

So, MS is not only going to have Apple gunning for them, every other DAP manufacturer (except the one making the Zune hardware) is going going to have a grudge as well.....

[Steve @ Jul 21st 2006 10:11PM]

This is really exciting news, I for one can't wait for the Zune and all the excitement that will be coming in the next few months.

I can sense the anxiety and uncertainty of iPod owners throughout these posts and I find it quite pleasurable.

I predict a gloomy 4th quarter for Apple shareholders as Microsoft takes its rightful place as leader in the PMP industry.

BOOM BOOM, Apple has died...

[matt @ Jul 21st 2006 10:45PM]

that was the gayest cartoon i have ever seen...

[CoolPuppy @ Jul 21st 2006 11:02PM]

The cartoon is cute, but also meaningful. Marketing 101 says that when you're late to a game, you change the playing field. Microsoft is trying to change the name of the game from acquiring and playing music, to SHARING music and whatever other experiences they can think of. I'm not sure if this will work, but it's a classic marketing/business tactic and it gives Microsoft a fighting chance...IF they can convince people that sharing music is important.

Personally, I have no desire to share my music, but I'm in my 30s and not exactly the MySpace/Facebook/AIM crowd to whom sharing and online personal expression is so important.

As for Zune itself, I'm hoping that the player and service are halfway decent. If they can apply pricing pressure on Apple and force Apple to innovate faster, that's goodness for everyone, whether you're a staunch Apple-lover or willing to try Microsoft's offering. Instead of tearing them apart, why not give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt here? This is a market they don't currently dominate, and one in which they will be able to dominate only if they best Apple on price and product.

May the best vendor win.

[Reg @ Jul 21st 2006 11:06PM]

Zune will probably do alright as there are a lot of people who think Microsoft offers the best solution for everything to do with the PC, and will convince themselves it's just as good.

But given iPod's lead, it'll probably be a case of:

ZUNE IS TO IPOD
AS XBOX IS TO PLAYSTATION

That is, a big following, but not as big, and not as cool. So, smart but dorky people will buy Microsoft Zunes and Microsoft Xboxes, hipsters will buy Apple iPods and Sony PS3s.

[Oscar Feliciano @ Jul 21st 2006 11:25PM]

I for one question the validity of these so-called confirmed and unconfirmed sources Engadget appears to have for this product which Microsoft has officially stated they are not working on. A viral marketing website, Engadget? Come on. Not only is comingzune.com not even registered to or by Microsoft, but the supposed trademark to Zune (as stated on comingzune.com) is not even a live trademark. It was abandoned over 6 years ago.

[Guzzie @ Jul 21st 2006 11:47PM]

Microsoft haters are worse than the fanboys. They seem to have their mindset to think that everything Microsoft touches is crap. Obviously these people haven't touched an xbox before, because if you had, you would know that they are great machines with a very enjoyable experience. The path of the Zune is looking very similar to the path of the 360, and if they hold true to that form they may have the formula to success.

[Robotron @ Jul 21st 2006 11:58PM]

"Microsoft is the only high-tech company that aspires to be a utility."

Truest MS quote I have ever read.
This is why I no longer use my 360. I can't even watch movie trailers now because I don't have the "gold" live....only the "you're pathetic-silver" live.

Reminds me of the MS wireless phone they released years ago and promised all the great things it would do with Windows. Some of my schools bought them and they all died. I called MS and they denied that they ever made a phone.

[Dan @ Jul 22nd 2006 12:25AM]

Zune's success will boil down to whether the product is simple enough for a grandmother to use. Anything more complicated that and it will flop.

[Guzzie @ Jul 22nd 2006 1:00AM]

"This is why I no longer use my 360. I can't even watch movie trailers now because I don't have the "gold" live....only the "you're pathetic-silver" live."

I'm pretty sure thats a load of BULLSHIT. I've had silver untill up about a week ago. I could watch trailers to my hearts content.

Microsoft Haters Phail.

[ZuneList.com @ Jul 22nd 2006 2:43AM]

Wow. Engadget has gone pretty far to get us the facts from fiction! Keep it up :) ~ ZuneLister

[Nocturnal @ Jul 22nd 2006 3:05AM]

Always grateful for the updates.

[Jon @ Jul 22nd 2006 4:23AM]

What I see as the cheapest ploy in Microsoft's DAP marketing:

Microsoft-Based 30GB Music Player: 15,000 songs*
Apple iPod 30GB: 7,500 songs**

*using Windows Media format at 64kbps (www.iriver.com and just about every other PlaysForSure manufacturer marking)
**using 128-Kbps AAC encoding (www.apple.com)

It's unbelievably retarded that WMP *defaults* to importing CD's at 64kbps PROTECTED WMA. Not only is the sound quality terrible, but they're imposing DRM on it too! (Don't know if the default's changed over the years but that's why i stopped using it).


But, on second thought, I'm sure that the 64kbps WMA is able to pack quality similar to, if not better than, 128kbps AAC. I mean, AAC was only developed by Dolby, Sony, AT&T, Fraunhofer, and Nokia - and declared an international standard by the MPEG group. I have no doubt that WMA can pack the same audio quality into half the space.

Good luck, Microsoft. And Godspeed.

[itsgreen @ Jul 22nd 2006 5:29AM]

You guys should read that Clicker's post...

When going through this list I had many moments when I thought 'WTF this does not make any sense', like with that Play For Sure not included. After reading that column I was kind of sold. I can envision myself browsing the Zune store on my 360 or my computer and transfering it really simple and straight forward to the device. But lets just wait and see what happens pricing-wise.

I think we can all agree that if MS can't match or produce a lower price for this device in comparison to apple's IPod, it won't happen for them. Sure they may have marginally better functions for some people. But heck it's Apple, and we all love Apple (except me :s) and Apple has it's great name and established base...

Also wondering how Microsoft is going to launch other country's. For now it all seems centered on America, I will get really pissed if it turns out this product is cool and I have to wait another 6-8 months for it to ship to the Netherlands. Can someone say URGE? (not even announced at this time.)

And how about a software player for other MS OS's. Can we expect Zune support in WMP? Windows Mobile? or wtf? And will the files be mp3 like? WMA like? have the extension .zune? Who knows?

But like I said, for now the most important thing, like ever, is pricing... And altough MS digital entertainment division has a history of selling under cost price, I can't see them doing it with a music player.

[blankoboy @ Jul 22nd 2006 7:11AM]

will we be seeing a Zune 360?

[Hamish @ Jul 22nd 2006 8:52AM]

Microsoft reminds me of the schoolyard bully. They can't stand anyone else being successful.

Remember the whole DRM thing is required by the recording industry - not just Apple or Microsoft.

I wonder if paying record companies to enable iTunes users to transfer their purchased songs to Zune could be regarded as "dumping" resulting in Apple seeking a legal injunction to prevent this? Might work in Australia where I live.

Finally, any guarantee that Zune will be virus free? ;-)

[jbbeauvoir @ Jul 22nd 2006 9:08AM]

to the person who said that microsoft haters should take a look at the Xbox I have to answer; I have, in fact I have the old model and the 360 (I tend to buy every console...). In the country where I am from (not japan but France), the 360 is not doing well. Actually it was fairly easy to get on when on the internet the hype said they where sold out everywhere (people you should have come to Paris as there were plenty leftover on the shelves of the big retail outlets such as FNAC and Virgin megastore), and it is even more easy to find one nowadays.

Clearly the Xbox brand is a failure only kept afloat by the enormous amount of money poured into it. I don't think the product is that great either. I woudl say it's an average console, very well designed for the american market and more precisely to teen loving PC games. Yes, I think it's competing with PCs, not really with the other two manufacturers... and I think the same of the Zune... it will compete with the WMP player and not really the itunes. This could be explained by the success of Microsoft (having a monopoly in OSes, the odds of you competing with yourself are high) for the Xbox... but my idea is that the two concepts originates from the same mind/group of people (the J Allard group). Saddly for microsoft it is as if a corporation gave a surburb kid (from wisteria lane or elsewhere) total control of the design of its product. And the kid instead of thinking would say let's put every cool feature in the thing dude! Awesome dude with this Zune thing you can network while you skate and contact your friends from xboxlive dude and exchange weapon for the new gear of war game while listening to Nsync and watching a movie, so cooooooolllllllll!!!!!! Who cares for this kind of device, with this kind of concept. Microsoft is a very efficient corporation that lacked a visionary guy... it's sad they took the surburb kid on acid...

Hello, this a music player not a palm: before giving us more features, start by doing what the ipod does perfectly: simple audio listening. I could be wrong, the zune could be doing those thing right but with J Allard, I have a major doubt furthermore, the list of feature (that I don't care for) scares me... To conclude, they won't be able to remake the Palm / Pocket PC story.

[Everett Powell @ Jul 22nd 2006 9:50AM]

I wont say that I am a fan of Microsoft but all of my pc’s run MS OS and the ones at work but it is going to take a little more than buying back my music in order for me to change from an Ipod. I do own an Xbox but I have slightly more invested into my Ipod, like my stereo system in my house and my car. Its hard enough to find something I am comfortable with using in my car much less the aggravation one gets from having the wrong stereo at home and because that’s what I invested my time and money in and I know all I have to do is buy a new Ipod when my current one is filled or found to be old. Why buy a new product when every Ipod old or new plugs right in?

[rob j @ Jul 22nd 2006 11:10AM]

ryan don't let the whinny bastards get you down. You guys do a great job.

[Justin @ Jul 22nd 2006 11:15AM]

unless it works for a mac, zune will never get my money. it's not that hard to port m-soft.

i will say though, that portable gaming device would be great.

[zachary @ Jul 22nd 2006 12:31PM]

@Storm
Just because your too obsessed with your ipod too care about anything else, doesnt mean everything else is crap.It's more likely you were paid off by apple. Like Ryan said, if you dont like it, don't read it (or whine your ipod loving butt off). This thing has a shot at taking down apple, so all the fanboys are up in arms.

[bv @ Jul 22nd 2006 1:47PM]

The song in the comingzune.com website is
Regina Spektor - "Us" off of the album "Soviet Kitsch". The site seems legit, i heard about it here: http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2006/07/21/The-Zune-Project.aspx#comments

[Matt @ Jul 22nd 2006 2:27PM]

Are you sure it's not "PlayForSure" compliant? I'd like to see a source, as you claim to know that for sure. Couldn't it be that downloading tracks over the WiFi connection will only work with Microsoft's service, but you can still use other services with a PC and the USB connection?

[R @ Jul 22nd 2006 2:32PM]

I am a huge fan of the Ipod and Itunes and have enjoyed both a great deal over the past few years. However times change and the potential integration of this player with the music store, OS, media player, Xbox and Xbox live is too compelling to ignore. I will likely buy one the first week and switch over. They will have to earn my loyalty beyond that or I would switch back.

[Jerry Brace @ Jul 22nd 2006 3:10PM]

Domain Name: COMINGZUNE.COM
Registrar: GO DADDY SOFTWARE, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
Name Server: PARK27.SECURESERVER.NET
Name Server: PARK28.SECURESERVER.NET
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Updated Date: 13-jul-2006
Creation Date: 13-jul-2006
Expiration Date: 13-jul-2007

[funkfreak @ Jul 22nd 2006 6:29PM]

Rather sounds VirusForSure to me..
Another method for spreading those little nasty bugs..
Hurray!

[jbbeauvoir @ Jul 22nd 2006 7:40PM]

R just a question... i wasn't aware that there was such a tight integration of the music store, OS, media player, Xbox and Xbox live... are you sure we have been using the same piece of software?
Both my Xbox and 360 are not integrated to my PC... I don't have a Zune... but to be truthful... I don't care... I just want a walkman with easy and fast access to a gigantic library of tunes and no hasstle or wasted time tuning software, syncing and other stufff.

I am not in college anymore, and as such, my time is precious... I'll keep my ipod for now... but I might sell my 360 once I finish Oblivion.

[Chris @ Jul 22nd 2006 8:16PM]

Isn't this exactly what Microsoft does? They just got a little beat up on their earnings statement. The shareholders want answers. Microsoft decides to let the cat out of the bag and announce a new product/software/os with amazing features that will surely be the most technologically advanced thing the world has ever seen.

Their stock goes up $.03 a share.

Then comes the push-back on launch date.

Then comes the news that the features they were going for were not realistic and the coolest features are going to be dumped in order to get the product/software/os out to the consumer with no further delay.

Their stock drops $.03 a share.

Repeat.

[expodition @ Jul 22nd 2006 8:34PM]

I find Zune really interesting :o)

I've recently launched a service at www.expodition.com for Apple's iPod and I'd like to do something similar for Zune.

The Pod SnapShots that you can download from expodition contain travel guides and location specific information for people and tourists traveling to new places. The SnapShots are based on the users profile.

Does anyone know if Zune devices will be able to read and display text files and images in a similar way to iPod?

Also - does anyone know how can I join a Zune developers group?

Cheers!

[Saxamoophone @ Jul 22nd 2006 8:59PM]

So I'm kinda excited about the Zune. While I would much rather just rip CD's onto a mp3 player then use a music store that's exclusive to one format (iTunes -- Only with iTunes), I do think a Zune music store could work out very well. Think of it like this, you buy a song online, can download it ANYWHERE with internet onto your Zune device and then download it to your Xbox 360. A few days later you can download it again with your Zune Music Player on your laptop. All of that, and you only pay once.

I already have an older 20 gig Ipod and a 2 gig Ipod nano, so i don't know if I will really wanta get ANOTHER mp3 player. But if Zune can bring something new to the table, good for them, and I'll consider it!

Lots of microsoft haters out there though it seems! To whoever said Microsoft products are "always" failures..not sure what makes you say that?

PocketPC and Windows Mobile is slowly starting to take over that area. Heck even Palm devices are running that as their OS now on some devices!!

Windows is still the resident king of OS's for market share.

Office is still the best office product out there.

MSnbc is one of the most viewed sites on the internet.

Xbox may place #1 in the next gen video game race in just it's 2nd outing (and the Xbox launched quite late against the ps2 and gamecube remember!).

So while Microsoft has had several misses over the years, they are still one of the most powerful names in computing. And as Apple has shown with ipod...a computer company can easily be a leader in home entertainment goods.

Microsoft will throw a lot of money into Zune. It won't take off right away...but.. I think it's quite possible that 2 or 3 years from now, Zune will have a significant percent of the market share.

Time will tell. It'll be an interesting race, and it'll be a fight that will be GOOD for consumers. But Microsoft has the ability of succeed here.

My two cents.

[daniel @ Jul 22nd 2006 9:46PM]

does aybody else notice the trend with microsoft? we got a "w" in windows. a "x" in x-box. and now a "z" in zune. then a "y" in why do they bother with this? or their just saving the "y" for a portable gaming device. soon bill gates will buy the alphabet adn make it go backwards since he has to be #1 in everything, or atleast try.

[Al @ Jul 22nd 2006 11:27PM]

I've been waiting for Longhorn/Vista since it was announced by Microsoft in 2003 and I'm still waiting.
Now you tell me a Microsoft branded MP3 player and ecosystem has been announced and it will be out in less than four months.
Yea, right. Been there, done that.
I no longer get excited about vaporware or vaporhardware.
Call me when there is something on a store shelf.

[_man1c_ @ Jul 23rd 2006 12:14AM]

im truly looking forward in seeing how this thing looks and plays. not a big fan of mp3s, but am thinkin of getting one that can play videos. id love me a Creative Zen, but if this thing is all its cracked up to be might just have to give it a try. although not at that price-point.

[jim @ Jul 23rd 2006 2:15AM]

anyone know the name of the song/artist played on the zu web site

[play free games @ Jul 23rd 2006 3:10AM]

I really like the idea of WiFi sharing of your music. It would be pretty cool to share what you're listening to with other people. But I'm just wondering if this is just too little too late. I thought Bill G. stated your cell phone was the next new music device? Oh well, here's to competition and innovation. Good luck, MS.

[Kyle @ Jul 23rd 2006 3:40AM]

So zune isnt using urge?

[Cal @ Jul 23rd 2006 3:51AM]

So wait... I must have missed it.

How much is microsoft paying for this coverage? ;o)

C'mon guys.. take a marketing class or two.

[Galley @ Jul 23rd 2006 9:23AM]

Please MS, give an OPTICAL OUT port. I will pay big money on whichever DAP with an OPTICAL OUT.

iRiver made a couple of players that not only had optical output, but input as well! Kinda wish I hadn't sold mine.

[Alan @ Jul 23rd 2006 11:45AM]

I think this is going to hurt the small players more than it's going to hurt Apple. MS has tried it's horizontal marketing scheme with music players & it hasn't generated a major market share for their technologies. What they see is $$$ in hardware. The Music industry see to that.

So MS is going to vertical market their new "Zune" product. The first thing this'll do is cannibalize the smaller market share holders and there's another issue to be addressed. Apple isn't going to stand still and become an easy target. The folks at Cupertino still have a host of things they can do to compete with MS. This is not a mature market and there are still tricks to come.

As a final comment - I would think the DOJ to keep a sharp eye on this market move but I know they're mostly impotent in monopolistic regulation. There, I said it. HEHE.......

[Tom Tom @ Jul 23rd 2006 11:59AM]

I totally love my iPod mini and how it integrates beautifully with my iMac.

HOWEVER....

like it or not, Microsoft is beating Apple in word-of-mouth buzz here. And the device isn't even out yet and it already feels like a community (due to all the websites and Zune blogs that popped up).

And I bet the music service is URGE. It'd better be!!!

[PixelSlave @ Jul 23rd 2006 5:51PM]

Why Zune? Why not Xune, or the next alphabet after the "X" -- Yune? I thought they want to utilize some of the brand power from the Xbox brand (which is, IMO, has a much better appeal to the audience they are targetting than the MS brand.) Giving up all the advantage a Xbox brand carries seem to be a mistake.

[Jough Dempsey @ Jul 23rd 2006 8:40PM]

"An unproven device, using an unproven service, playing media with proprietary DRM, at a price that will probably top out OVER the high end iPods. Clearly this device will be dead-on-arrival."

Every single one of these points fits the first iPod too - unproven device and service, proprietary DRM, and a price much higher than its rivals at the time.

I guess you would have thought the iPod would be DOA too. A lot of pundits thought that when it was first released.

I don't know if Microsoft has a winner on their hands or not, but there's no doubt this will be one of the biggest releases this year. It may be the biggest FLOP, but it will be huge news and a major push from a very large company who has proven itself in other closed systems spaces (unless you don't consider the Xbox/360 a success, being better than its rivals and the nextgen version out a full year before its chief competitor, who may or may not trump its capabilities).

I love my Microsoft mouse. The Xbox is pretty cool too. Nothing would make me happier than to see Microsoft do so well with their hardware that they get out of the software business. ;)

[Javaflash @ Jul 23rd 2006 8:42PM]

It's unlikely Microsoft will buy our way out of iTune. The initiative is too expensive, takes years to become balance positive. Then there is the issue of abuses. Millions (maybe billions) could be spent "REPEATEDLY" for a few rounds of DRM hacks.

Apple also won't sit around waiting to be screwed. Besides, we all know Redmond hardly get anything right the first round. By the time Zune hits some marks, it could lag behind, minus a giant pile of cash still outflowing.

---> A Money Pit for Microsoft, that might not even make money after years.

[Pete Nicely @ Jul 24th 2006 1:32AM]

The Zune team is right to treat this music player like any media/game player. Music is just software. More on my blog.

[thetechaddict @ Jul 24th 2006 2:56AM]

Great post jbbeauvoir, do you have a blog? I think you made all the right assumptions about microsoft. I think microsoft is about to miss the tech boat big time.