Microsoft fires back at DVD firmware hack

Just in case you'd finally saved up to buy an Xbox 360 for the purposes of hacking the firmware on the DVD player, you may be a fair bit disappointed when you tear those electronic guts out. The dudes at Xbox-Scene recently figured out that Microsoft seems to have responded simply by changing the version of the Hitachi-LG DVD drive, going so far as to putting black hard glue over the chip pins for extra security. While we know that Microsoft has the right to protect its technology, this solution just seems a bit overkill, no? In any case, there's a whole series of other technical details (most of which are all Greek to us), but the short of it is that the Team-X kit to hack the firmware won't work anymore -- at least until the Xbox-Scene crew figures out another workaround, which we're sure they will.

[Casey Yano @ Oct 5th 2006 11:27PM]

talk about paranoid...

[tekdroid @ Oct 5th 2006 11:28PM]

black glue dissolver 30ml $10.00

[Eddie @ Oct 5th 2006 11:35PM]

They did this with the Xbox, as well. Why are we surprised?

[mattb @ Oct 5th 2006 11:50PM]

never did it with the original xbox, actually. they changed points, removed spots for pinheaders, and made us cut traces for modding, but never black glue - not that we can't get past a bit of glue.

[L3ftonm3 @ Oct 5th 2006 11:35PM]

Good move by them, but how about they focus on reducing die size to make those boxes run a little cooler.

[mudlouse @ Oct 5th 2006 11:37PM]

why don't they just cake the whole pcb in black resin.

[Tony Rayo @ Oct 5th 2006 11:38PM]

Just an FYI to the editor, Xbox-Scene is just news site, they don't develop solutions themselves, although sometimes their board users do.

- Tony R.

[Barry @ Oct 5th 2006 11:44PM]

This is why I'd buy a first-gen XBox properly retrofitted with a good mod chip and a 500GB drive but I wouldn't even consider a 360.

[Wildside @ Oct 5th 2006 11:49PM]

dude........that looks disgusting........looks like microsoft added black blood so when u remove the electronic guts out, it bleeds.......amazing.

lol jk, i hate hackers, only thing i like is getting piracy operating system, which i am using Windows XP Professional which pirated (shhh!!).

[Eddie @ Oct 6th 2006 12:37AM]

"mattb @ Oct 5th 2006 11:49PM

never did it with the original xbox, actually. they changed points, removed spots for pinheaders, and made us cut traces for modding, but never black glue - not that we can't get past a bit of glue."

Not true: In their later 1.6b versions of the Xbox, There was definately glue. I know this because it was a huge problem for a huge load of users. I even had a couple of friends who came to me for help, me being the uber h4xx0r I am.

It was clear glue, though.

[Matt @ Oct 6th 2006 12:10AM]

Overkill? not really. When you think about the fact that hardware is sold at a loss and profit is on the majority made from games, it makes very good sense for Microsoft or any manufacturer to try and prevent piracy as much as possible. That being said, I have faith in the modding community to find some sort of work around. They're sneaky that way.

Side note, how long did it take for the first xbox modchips to come out and how far along are the 360 chips?

[s00pcan @ Oct 6th 2006 12:12AM]

Title should be "Microsoft does a two minute fix to dvd firmware hack". Doesn't even affect my 360.

[Chris Chance @ Oct 6th 2006 12:29AM]

LOL only engadget would think this is overkill....

The fix is perfect, it puts an end to the dvd firmware hack that cost them god knows how much in games sales that they need to make back the money for the loss they take on the consoles... and the fix costs them what... 5 cents per console?

Seems like a cost effective and solid easily implemented fix for the bug... good job MS....

Why am i happy they killed the hack .. simple more game sales LEGITIMATE, pushes developers to keep making games and microsoft to keep their xbox line moving..

[Maikeru @ Oct 6th 2006 1:00AM]

It won't be long when hackers figure this one out also. There is no perfect system.

This is good in a way not for us human beings to put our trust in technology.

And guys, you are talking about Microsoft here, where Windows have a 1000's of malwares!

[Chris Chance @ Oct 6th 2006 12:32AM]

"Title should be "Microsoft does a two minute fix to dvd firmware hack". Doesn't even affect my 360."

Actually even better title "Microsofts 5cent fix to a multi million dollar problem"

[John Pemberton @ Oct 6th 2006 1:01AM]

the bigger question is, if m-soft is taking steps such as this to prevent future firmware patching, does this mean that they are unable (or unwilling) to apply an xbox-live patch to ban current firmware-modded xbox 360s? That's what most of us XBOX owners of older drives (hitachi 47d firmware and saumsung m25) want to know.

[Joshua @ Oct 6th 2006 1:05AM]

i don't think they want to ban modders from the xbox live service... it's their only way to make money off of the modders by charging them subscription fees. maybe they'll ban them off once they reach maximum profit off of the modder through their subscription fees.

[Joshua @ Oct 6th 2006 1:02AM]

black glue... smart move... it makes it harder to target the correct pins.
if it was clear I could even hax0r it using a dremel to get to the proper pins.
well, props for MS for saving their investment.
lets wait and see what other mods are possible...

[potato @ Oct 6th 2006 1:10AM]

It's not perfect - you can never stop the hardcore hackers, but MS knows that. The idea is to take modding beyond the reach of your average Joe, and make it inconvenient enough that more people will say "oh screw it".

I'm not against hacking any hardware for the sake of tinkering and homebrewing, though as a software developer I hate the "modchips good! homebrew!" thing that most people spout. For every 1000 people who spout that statement, I'm willing to bet only 3-4 people have actually TOUCHED homebrew, the rest are just there for their burned games.

[Murc @ Oct 6th 2006 1:47AM]

some guy asked about 360 mod chips.
Theres one that I know of called globe 360...i think.
But it involves rediculous amounts of soldering...the soldering points are right next to eachother, The margin for error is so high that it would make a robot sweat.

[mprobins @ Oct 6th 2006 4:44AM]

Murc, that isn't a modchip. It is just a variation on the dvd drive firmware hack.

The people responsible for the security in the 360 must be patting themselves on the back by now. The console has been out nearly a year and the best anyone has been able to do is hack the drive's firmware (which, I should point out, is the last thing anyone did with the original xbox).

[Dp462090 @ Oct 6th 2006 1:49AM]

Looks like tar...

[Benno @ Oct 6th 2006 2:20AM]

Murc: Shouldn't that be "small margin of error"?

[Andrea @ Oct 6th 2006 5:48AM]

I totally agree with mrprobins. Everybody is talking about hardcorehackers and so on, but the only thing they came up with so far is a firmware hack for the DVD-drive? Leaving you wondering each day if you can still access Xbox Live (or worse: use your machine at all) and probably loosing warranty. I really don't think that many people are willing to mess with their $400 console at this point.

[JerkyChew @ Oct 6th 2006 8:12AM]

What exactly does the 360 firmware hack allow a modder to do?

[b @ Oct 6th 2006 8:37AM]

JerkyChew -

Play burned 360 games.

[Jason @ Oct 6th 2006 8:59AM]

Good.

Early in the console's life console makers sell them at a loss, and make money back on games. But I don't really care about that, what I do care about is jerks who mod their consoles and then screw up everyone's fun on Xbox Live.

Keep fighting the good fight on this one MS.

[Edward K. @ Oct 6th 2006 10:04AM]

i must admit i have mixed feelings about this.

on the one hand there's the lack of ability to do what i want with the console that i purchased. for instance, if i buy a computer and a manufacturer says that i can't take out a part or mess with a part then that's bull. same thing here, i think this is totally uncool.

on the other hand my first statement wasn't aware that this doesn't allow the console to do anything special except for allow it to read burned copies of games. and that's gay. i'm all for the ability to turn my Xbox 360 into a media center, but as far as games go its about time software started getting more legal.

and please people, dont usee the "oh i'm just using it for homebrew" crap. everybody knows that MS already released a way to do that. legally.

[Sean P. Aune @ Oct 6th 2006 10:43AM]

Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't this make the 360 run even hotter? Even more space is consumed by mass.

[Torontoguy @ Oct 6th 2006 11:37AM]

I am amazed that the tone of these pieces (as reflected in the responses) is that the hackers are some kind of heroes...defending the little guy against the evil corporation...instead of being slimy little creeps who think that stealing from the rich isn't still stealing.

[glacia00 @ Oct 6th 2006 12:06PM]

"this solution just seems a bit overkill, no?"

No. I think Engadget desperately needs some people with hardware experience. This is way way WAY from the most draconian measures companies go to every day. This is a very simple measure to slow people down.

If I worked at MS I'd suggest using a BGA (ball grid array) package. That alone would stop more people than this since there are no accessible leads. Someone would have to remove the IC to access the balls. Removing a large BGA by hand without destroying it; big big pain. But it can be done so underfill it with a better epoxy and the difficulty goes way up. Can still be done so request the IC packager to do a custom pinout and it becomes hard to even know how to power the thing up once you manage to take it off. And none of this really costs that much more. But still it can be done if someone really wants to and everyone in the industry knows this especially MS. In fact someone want to hire me?

I designed a series of products a few years ago where we went much farther by stuffing components on flex circuits with 'breakaways' (intentionally weak area that would break if tampered with) then 'potting' the whole thing, completely encapsulating it in epoxy all to 'slow down' Chinese knockoff shops. Not to stop them. We knew we couldn't stop them but to remove the epoxy they would likely destroy the flex circuit also so we we just wanted to slow down the copy time.

Sean P. Aune, actually it will probably run cooler. The only place to dump heat from the IC is the PCB and the epoxy will provide a better path for the heat.

[Osiris @ Oct 6th 2006 12:06PM]

Sean P. Aune @ Oct 6th 2006 10:43AM
"Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't this make the 360 run even hotter? Even more space is consumed by mass."

No because it is only a tiny space on the dvd drive's board.



The epoxy is nothing new, the fact that it's now black is new.
Also the drive no longer enters modeb, which is why Team Xecuter's USB adapter or any other adapter will no longer work.

Won't take long to find a work around i'm sure.

[tweak @ Oct 6th 2006 12:39PM]

The Engadget guys make it sound like the people behind the website are the hackers when in reality it's just a news site for that sort of info...

Just my thoughts.

[JD @ Oct 7th 2006 10:13PM]

I hope MS continues to fight the DVD firmware hack so that it pushes the game copying weasles into actually cracking more than just the ability to pirate games. Once it's too hard to just pirate a game by copying it, they will be forced to figure out some way around the executable signature - then we're on to great things like MAME360 and XBMC360 (high def!)

[Murc @ Oct 9th 2006 7:31PM]

many people who do the firmware thing, do it to backup there games.

games are like 60 bucks a pop, get 5 games and thats $300! Thats the main reasoning behind this. But yes...of course some people will use it other wise...like renting & copying.

it wouldn't be hard to get rid of that black glue...I'm sure there are some solvents out there that could eat right threw it....or you could spend a few hours with a dremmal, if your really commited.

[RAdZer0 @ Nov 10th 2006 11:52AM]

Heres one thing microsoft coulda had going for them this holiday season.

They want to have top selling console. If they would have let it be untill after christmas id say 1mill sales added from people buying it same way people bought the dreamcast. Wanting to play downloaded backups.