http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/ Engadget Comments for Chilean Mapuche Indians suing Microsoft http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 25th 2006 9:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 25th 2006 9:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 25th 2006 9:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/

]]>Dec 7th 2006 10:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
mmm, good pie.]]>Nov 25th 2006 9:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 25th 2006 9:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 25th 2006 9:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 25th 2006 9:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/23/technology/microsoft_chile.reut/?postversion=2006112311]]>Nov 26th 2006 3:43AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/For many of the world's indigenous people, modernisation has meant the destruction of much of their culture,usually because it is offensive to 'civilisation'. Language is something that they've been allowed to keep and I support their efforts to protect it.
Also, Microsoft's developing software in this language isn't necessarily the best thing for such a language. Mohawk, Quechua and Inuktitut may have allowed it, but that is their business. If the Mapuche don't want Microsoft to use their language then Microsoft should respect that.
As far as the ability to copyright a language goes, well, of course there are problems with that. But western concepts of 'law' aren't necessarily by customary law and usually a balance between the two is required.
An inherent part of customary law in most indigenous cultures is that language is identity and is 'owned' inasmuch as it is intellectual property. Of course it is impossible to identify someone as having 'invented' the language, but rather it evolves over many centuries, passed down from generation to generation. In this respect, the current Mapuche people, the direct descendents of all former people involved in the evolution of the language, are its owners. I'm sure they would be highly offended by a western courtroom telling them that they cannot 'own' their language and that Microsoft may do as they please.
Jane Simpson, brilliant Australian linguist, has a great post about the problem of language ownership in an Australian setting, over at the transient cultures blog.
Basically, I think it's very bigoted to refuse an indigenous group of people the right to regulate the use of their own language by outsiders, and certainly very offensive to think that they just want money out of Microsoft.
-Aidhoss]]>Nov 25th 2006 10:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 25th 2006 10:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://blogs.usyd.edu.au/elac and mine is http://aidhoss.wordpress.com
Send your hate mail in my direction!!]]>Nov 25th 2006 10:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/However, I see this as a frivolous issue. I know I'm not even close to know the details concerning this translation, but it looks like instead of providing feedback and helping making a better translation, the Mapuche leaders are just taking an incorrect course of action by suing. But I'm no one to tell this, it's just my uninformed take. Maybe Microsoft isn't paying attention.

The Mapuche are a minority here in Chile, much like native "races" in the United States (yet most of us are of really really mixed blood, not only in Chile but generally speaking in South America). Even though there are social connotations concerning the roots of some people here, there are ways the government is trying to use to integrate the Mapuche, and Mapudungun speaking schools are part of it. Using WinXP in such language is a good measure, and there should be more interest in delivering a product that works fine in a certain language (I know I bitch every time my software isn't written or translated correctly), but given the nature of this version, a bigger integration of the Mapuche community should be of use to them.

As for the "alcohol" comment, one would think that people in Engadget wouldn't go to such levels of rhetoric, right? Right?]]>Nov 25th 2006 10:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 25th 2006 10:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
What if they would have been offered to take part of the process?, you think it would have been free by them and said "Oh yeah! thats a fine idea! lets do it!!!", not really...

The Lawsuit its really stupid, i really hope it goes out soon, its really sad that our country appear on international news because of this bullshit, its kind of pissing me off (im commenting on every site that i visit that have this news...)

Also, every time that they get to say something, its "We're being excluded", HELL, WHICHEVER ATTEMPT TO INCLUDE EM WILL INCLUDE A LAWSUIT!?!?!, its stupid!]]>Nov 25th 2006 10:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Both your English and your attitude are a gratifying joke. And so is your ignorant overreaction.
]]>Nov 25th 2006 11:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 25th 2006 10:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/First let me point out the stereo type here- Above and the rudeness that goes with it- What do you mean by obscure tongue?
You Westerners patent drugs that saves lives and some that even kill. Now! where did the natural resources came from that composed your medicines- if that's what you call it? You sell it yet refrain us from reproducing it for your sake of big bux-isn't it? And not that you care.
I don’t think the MICROSOFT cares for any one but American-white if you please.
Racist! Not because you were colonized or a colonizer makes those that speak different obscure.
Your article sucks and boardersnon bigotry.
]]>Nov 25th 2006 10:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
Fact is, it's an absurd thing to sue over. If the quality isn't good, it's fair game to complain and work with the offender to correct the problems. Vowing to take this up to and beyond the Supreme Court is ludicrous. Also, you cannot hold the intellectual property rights on a language. Just as commonly used words (think "Blue" in Blu-Ray) cannot be patented, so to are languages exempt.

Saying that Microsoft is racist is equally absurd. Not only do they employ people in all parts of the world, of all ethnic backgrounds, but their facilites for ethnic minorities and women are amazingly good.

Let's look at Microsoft's ranking on the "best company to work for" site in Latin America:
- Argentina: 6
- Brazil: 9
- Chile: 7
- Mexico: 13
- Peru: 9

As you can see, they're a pretty darn good company to work for in Latin America, so don't go off on unfounded claims that they're racist. Source for all data: http//www.greatplacetowork.co.uk

-Karl]]>Nov 26th 2006 10:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003820.htm is a linguisits take on the situation. ]]>Nov 25th 2006 11:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/But you know that the Lawsuit has something behind, not just the public reason that has been given.]]>Nov 27th 2006 5:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 25th 2006 11:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003820.html

]]>Nov 25th 2006 11:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/or I'll sue...]]>Nov 25th 2006 11:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 26th 2006 12:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
And they aren't suing my good friend linus are they?]]>Nov 26th 2006 2:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 26th 2006 3:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
People are so greedy these days. They couldn't care less about honor and so forth. They see someone with deep pockets and they think, "How can we exploit things to put a few dollars in our own?" And then they try to hide their greed behind "culture" and "tradition". Like everyone else is too stupid to see through all that.

This lawsuit should be discarded like a piece of rubbish.

No one "owns" languages. It's incredibly arrogant to think otherwise. God is the inventor of them all, so this tribe needs to get off their high-horse and find something else to do with their time, like open up a casino or some other money generating enterprise (and I don't mean that disrespectfully. I'm being serious).

People have a right to translate their work into any language they choose.]]>Nov 26th 2006 4:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 26th 2006 6:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
But anyway... I don't know _much_ about these indians situation. But I think that going for the "it's just for money's sake" or "languages are for everybody's free use" or even "languages are given by 'God'(?)" are rather... _narrow_ views.

Are languages copyrighted? Not in America, ok, sure. But remember, America, or for that sake Europe or anywhere else, ISN'T THE CENTER OF THE WORLD. Even Chile's laws doesn't seem to be agreeded on by the Mapuche, since they consider themselves excluded (whatever their reasons). Don't forget that they were there before the mix of natives and Spanish became the "majority". If they really believe that their language is theirs and ONLY theirs, why on Earth MS made its translation for it? Don't think that because UK or "the worlds great powers" never complained, people from others cultures are on their right to do so...

Ok, ok... going to court about it may not be a very good idea either, but scraping the translation and MAYBE some "I'm sorry you didn't really like our idea, we're quitting it.", just to see the POPULATION's (not just the indians) reaction would fit just fine.

That's what I think.]]>Dec 8th 2006 9:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 26th 2006 9:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
Curious, who wants to file a suit against the indians for using the English language their lawyers used to issue the suit in? Counter0suit time.]]>Nov 26th 2006 8:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 26th 2006 10:35AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/-Aidhoss


Uhhh they simply translated Windows into their language. MS isn't claiming ownership. This is like the French Government suing me because I spoke French without some kind of official permission.

So I will continue to butcher it as I am more familiar with Spanish and Italian. I look forward to seeing these morons defeated in court. It's more than likely if they did get money out of it, it would disappear into the pockets of a few, and not the tribe as a whole anyway.

As they say... No good deed goes unpunished.]]>Nov 27th 2006 6:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
You can't copyright a language. This has been tested several times in court. You can only copyright a creative work fixed in some medium.

In term of it being 'intellectual property', no - it isn't. The reason is simple: a language isn't typically constructed with intent, it's evolved over time by many people.

Which addresses the people who say the tribe has a right to regulate their own language. No, they do not - at least not in a restrictive way. They have a right to *promote* their language, and they have a right to restrict their own use of a their language as a community, but there's no legal way to stop some other group from adopting or even modifying the tribes language to their own use.

When it comes to Microsoft badly translating Windows into their language - well, there's an easy fix: don't buy it. As for their involvement in the process - yes, it's unfortunate Microsoft didn't get them involved - but that's not typically how translation gets done. Microsoft more than likely hired a translator who seemed to have credentials for this language.

Personally, I'm more impressed that Microsoft made the effort to provide Windows in a language used by so few people. Don't get me wrong - I know it's so they can sell a few more copies of Windows - but still...]]>Nov 26th 2006 1:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
If the intended users of said software are unhappy with it, they can choose to use other software.

Simple.
]]>Nov 26th 2006 2:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 26th 2006 3:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 26th 2006 3:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
I can see bill games and George Bush collaborating right now.. "hehe I am going to say nu-cu-lur and piss off nuclear engineers" - Bush

"Oh yea, I am going to translate a language wrong just to piss off 400,000 indians in Chile" - Bill

There needs to be a Jury of peers to toss out stupid lawsuits than can be fixed in other more productive ways.]]>Nov 26th 2006 4:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
I really wish Microsoft would just abandon the translation altogether. Let them learn to do all their important, computing-intensive business in Spanish, if they have such a bug up their asses. Offering ANY kind of translation service is a good-faith attempt to help PRESERVE a language, by allowing a language's speakers to carry their native tongue with them into the 21st century. If these people don't appreciate that, f*** them.]]>Nov 26th 2006 10:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapudungun

]]>Jun 26th 2009 2:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 26th 2006 10:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
'Dejo claro mi más profundo rechazo a lo que está haciendo Microsoft y emplazó a la empresa a que no continúe con el proyecto de piratería que afecta a la identidad del pueblo mapuche', manifestó Huilcamán, según recogen diarios argentinos.

He is talking about Windows "pirating" the mapuzungun "language".

What is more funny, is that the written version of mapuzungun was invented by german missioners.

Do we "consult" germans when translating manuals of our products to german? Do we ask England for participation when we translate our products to english. No.

They want free access to culture and social rights. But spreading culture means having it everywhere, accessible and free.

If you can read spanish, my opinion is here: http://duncan.mac-vicar.com/blog/archives/151
]]>Nov 27th 2006 7:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/The racism and the ignorance are appalling.]]>Nov 27th 2006 7:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/Nov 28th 2006 9:17AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/chilean-mapuche-indians-suing-microsoft/
Juan, from Chile.]]>Nov 27th 2006 1:33PM