CE-Oh no he didn't! Part XXVII - Telstra tells Apple to "stick to your knitting"

We're not really sure what Telstra has to gain by dissing the iPhone, given the fact that it happens to be the only carrier in Australia to support EDGE, making them a natural fit for carrying the device, but diss it they did, with operations chief Greg Winn letting Apple know just how out-of-place he thinks the company is in the phone world: "There's an old saying - stick to your knitting - and Apple is not a mobile phone manufacturer, that's not their knitting." We wonder if anyone tried that line the last time Apple pulled something like this, with that little "iPod" thing of theirs a few years back. He continued, "You can pretty much be assured that Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, Sony Ericsson and ZTE and others will be coming out with devices that have similar functionality." Oddly enough, other than that rather derogatory comment at the outset, Winn had some pretty legitimate criticisms of the phone. "I think people overreacted to it - there was not a lot of tremendously new stuff if you think about it," he said. The touchscreen doesn't really excite the guy, since it was "only a matter of time before it went to the device." This is evidenced by the flood of touchscreen phones we've been seeing this month and last. He also raises an eyebrow at the non-replaceable battery, and that while he's "absolutely sure that device will be successful initially," he's in doubt of "how much money are they willing to devote to all of the life cycle management and upgrades." He also seems put-off by the Cingular exclusivity: "They did an exclusive with Cingular and they talked about a global rollout - well, Cingular is not a global company." Maybe Winn just didn't get the memo that there's a world rollout on the way for next year, and he was on the list. "Was" being the key word here.

[Thanks, John K]

[fr0z3nph03n1x @ Feb 15th 2007 1:26PM]

Sony Ericsson already has phones out on the market that do this, and better. http://www.sonyericsson.co.jp/ Just with out the flashy touch screen. Welcome to the market Apple.

[Ladderless @ Feb 15th 2007 1:43PM]

I absolutely agree... Given the fact that Apple thinks it's OK to make a phone where you can't swap the battery tells me that they don't really understand how a phone is used.

If the battery goes dead on an MP3 player, you don't get to listen to music. If it goes dead on a phone, you don't get to conduct your business.

[Leonard Nimrod @ Feb 15th 2007 9:19PM]

What's the deal with wanted a removal battery. Is everyone so used to poor software that you really can't see past this foolish feature?

There is no need for it. If you need extra juice then just plug it in to a car adapter, 110 outlet, USB port, or add one of the many external batteries that are available for emergencies.

Since your cell phone only comes with one battery anyway, the last option is by far a much better option than turning of your phone, removing the back cover, removing the battery, replacing the battery, reapplying the back cover and turning your phone back on.

BTW, your iPod power supplies and data cable will work with the iPhone. That will save me a little extra room in my carry-on language.

[Matt B @ Feb 15th 2007 1:54PM]

I would think it is more a control issue. Maybe like the same issues that caused VZW to pass on it too. Apple wants full support control unlike any other phone maker.

[o29 @ Feb 15th 2007 1:57PM]

Hey, that's a picture of the IPod socks. I bought those for my ex about a year ago, but I don't think she ever really used them much, and they're a bit overpriced.

[Jeff @ Feb 15th 2007 2:01PM]

"I bought those for my ex about a year ago, but I don't think she ever really used them much, and they're a bit overpriced."

In other words, a typical Apple product.

[rip @ Feb 15th 2007 4:43PM]

yeah, because Vista is such a bargain.

[o29 @ Feb 15th 2007 2:38PM]

Yes, exactly.

[DM @ Feb 15th 2007 2:14PM]

" The touchscreen doesn't really excite the guy, since it was "only a matter of time before it went to the device."

That is so true. And why would anyone want to use two hands to use a phone when you can use one hand with a regular phone? Touchscreen excites you?? Best of luck with the smudge marks.

[Decel @ Feb 15th 2007 2:23PM]

I'm all for criticism, but why is he bashing a, so far, popular device his company will carry?

Business 101 down there must be different from up here in Canada.

[j.lee @ Feb 15th 2007 2:30PM]

I'm holding out hope that enough criticism will cause a change in the battery issue by the time Apple goes to market with this...or they'll at least offer a replacement program.

[Jean-Michel Decombe @ Feb 15th 2007 2:52PM]

Breaking news! Apple Computer hires Greg Winn as new Chief Marketing Officer... LOL!

[mcloki @ Feb 15th 2007 2:55PM]

The phone isn't even out yet, but everyone has an opinion on a tech demo. What business strategy is served by openly disrespecting a potential partner. Do they think it will help in the negotiations? Is this guy angling for a job with a cell phone maker?

[patrick @ Feb 15th 2007 3:01PM]

I think the main thing that is fueling the iphone hype is the fact that it has the named Apple attached to it. They are people out there that think just because it says Apple on it it will somehow be the best of it's kind. Although I do love my various ipods I don't really have a use for one integrated into my phone. Also the fact that the battery is not replaceable is a deal breaker for me since I have went through three batteries mostly since they wore out in the three year since I got my phone. I can't see myself returning it to apple or going to a retailer every year just t get the battery replaced. Lastly as far as I can tell besides the storage space offered by the mp3 part of the iphone my phone already does most of what the iphone does and I don't need to spend another $300 for it.

[Mike @ Feb 15th 2007 3:26PM]

I think he's right on the money. The big five will not sit idly by and let Apple outdo them. I think they recognize the potential damage Apple can do to their market and will come out with equally amazing (if not better) designs. I think this bodes well for all consumers.

[Lee Gibson @ Feb 15th 2007 3:35PM]

You say that as if it's the handset makers that determine feature set. It's not...it's the carriers.

Apple brought enough clout to the party to get some pretty good concessions from Cingular. It will be interesting to see how that changes the landscape. The closer we get to a truly competitive cell phone market in the US, the better.

[akintz @ Feb 15th 2007 3:36PM]

I'm kind of sick of the "other phones do this already" stuff. Yes, other phones have similar features and have had similar ideas and maybe even a similar interface. But what Apple is trying to do is put these together as one package and make it just work the way it should. So you don't like touchscreen or are worried about smudges... who cares, don't get the phone.

Point is... if so many people have already done these things Apple is doing, why is there still so much hype and anticipation for Apple to do it? If it's been done so many times, why is the market not saturated with these devices and no one really caring about the iPhone?

That all being said... the battery thing is a bit of a ball dropping IMO. Like someone else mentioned, people can accept a dead MP3 player for a while a lot more than they can accept no communication via phone. A swappable battery is almost a must.

[billyboy @ Feb 15th 2007 3:45PM]

Yesssss... Feel the hate swelling within you...

shit guys, what the hell? Sure there've been phones out there that you wouldn't want to buy, but did you spend this much time and energy actively hating it? Is it just because Apple gets a lot of press? I don't get it.

As for a battery, I'm gonna have to disagree... I've had an LG phone for 3 years now and the battery and it's latch attatchment has been the only problem with the thing. Never needed to change the battery once, but have contsantly needed to take it out and reseat it.

Aaaaand, while I'm at it... whoever is bashing the price is smoking. Considering that you are required to pay 2 years of monthly service fees to get any damn phone at the subsidized price, you should hardly thing that you're getting a good deal... You're simply paying in installments.

[holyhell @ Feb 15th 2007 10:30PM]

Moron, with the iPhone, you get both... a high price AND an extended contract.

[tim @ Feb 16th 2007 3:56AM]

@holyhell

Hey dude, chill out on the name calling. Since nobody knows anything about what the contracts are and what's included for the iphone package, you can't really say for certain what the price breakdowns will be.

but what i think billy was saying is that over the span of 2 years, at a $100 a month, you'll be paying $2400. whether or not you pay $100 or $500 up front doesn't quite have the same influence when we're gonna be spending that much over the next 2 years. that, and like i said before, we don't know what kind of packages will be offered for the iphone. could be more expensive, could be less, but since cingular doesn't have to make up for subsidy cost, i'm betting lower.

[k0a10 @ Feb 15th 2007 4:09PM]

the SE p800 was probably the first device that focused on a big touch screen, it came out in what, 2003?

[LJKelley @ Feb 15th 2007 4:38PM]

Its just all Media Hype... they appearently love apple (because they use Apples at work). There are several phones that do everything the iPhone does and actually does it better. I dare you apple fanboys to go to Sony Ericsson's and Nokia's websites and look at the phones. See the specs and what they do...

Nokia has a phone that records DVD Quality Video at 30fps. Several Manufactures have made touchscreen phones for ages. But to think of releasing an upmarket PDA Phone without 3G in this day and age? The iPhone has too many short comings when compared with the competion. I for one will be getting an HTC Device with Windows Mobile 6.0

[Chris @ Feb 15th 2007 9:05PM]

"Nokia has a phone that records DVD Quality Video at 30fps."

Bullshit.

[Leonard Nimrod @ Feb 15th 2007 9:38PM]

@ LJKelley

Its just all Media Hype... they appearently love apple (because they use Apples at work). There are several phones that do everything the iPhone does and actually does it better. I dare you apple fanboys to go to Sony Ericsson's and Nokia's websites and look at the phones. See the specs and what they do...

"Nokia has a phone that records DVD Quality Video at 30fps."
==> You made the claim, now back it up with some proof. By quality I assume you mean resolution. Since you specifically say 30fps, you must mean NTSC's 720x480 resolution. Awaiting some proof....

"Several Manufactures have made touchscreen phones for ages."
==> Multi-touch touch-screens that, obviously, don't require a stylus and react to gestures in a natural way? Of course not.

"But to think of releasing an upmarket PDA Phone without 3G in this day and age?"
==> When 3G becomes common then the iPhone will have it. A nice feature to be sure, but too few users and with an unweildly battery drain.

"The iPhone has too many short comings when compared with the competion. I for one will be getting an HTC Device with Windows Mobile 6.0"
==> There you go! Go on with your bad self with DVD-quality recording Nokia phone with the short coming-free WinCE software.

I'll stick with software whose core foundation and frameworks have been in developed for over 15 years. It's easy for any of the big Consumer Electronic compnaies to copy Apple's hardware, but not one is even close to skimming the surface of it's software.

[yNeville @ Feb 15th 2007 4:46PM]

Telstra is Australia's version of Microsoft.

Large company, with the majority of customers (in Oz); but their products & services are 2nd grade. There are better carriers in Australia - Telstra just has the brand name, and customers who know no better.

Aussies; do yourself a favour. Stay away from Telstra.

Oh, and for all the iPhone critics; if it's so sh1t, why do you all keep spending so much time talking about it? Losers. ha.

[tchiseen @ Feb 15th 2007 6:52PM]

yvil - onya, but there's more too it than that.

Telstra is a big F@#(&*(*@ piece of s@#($&*%(*. They're a government owned monopoly, sort of like M$. They have no incentive to improve technology, or give their customers any kind of service. For example they own almost all of the sh1tty fiber/copper network, other ISP's lease from them, meaning any kind of internet is expensive, slow as hell, and quota'd.


Telstra is the main reason Australia is still in the stone age. In a country so full of asians, you'd reccon we could get SOME kind of tech here, but you'd be wrong.

[mpowers @ Feb 15th 2007 4:49PM]

You can always trust an aussie to call a spade a spade.

[Whiplash @ Feb 15th 2007 4:57PM]

Why a guy who works for a carrier would critisize ANY product that might generate sales for him is beyond me.

Regarding the phone itself, it's not about technical features folks. It's about useability.

The difference between the iPod and the other players out there is the user interface. That will also be the deciding factor with the iPhone. Other phones are coming with touch screens, but nobody is going to utilize them as elegantly as Apple. That's nearly a given.

[JB @ Feb 15th 2007 5:27PM]

I think we are missing the most important thing here - Telstra is not in the phone manufacturing business either, so why should they even care.

I guess Apple could say considering you are not in the phone manufacturing business, you should stick to what your knitting - Telco infrastructure and ripping off customers.

[holyhell @ Feb 15th 2007 10:35PM]

The wildly successful LG Chocolate did that actually, but good try.

[Evan @ Feb 15th 2007 5:30PM]

"The touchscreen doesn't really excite the guy, since it was "only a matter of time before it went to the device."

Without Apple forcing change, its likely that touchscreens would continue to only be used on boring business-oriented phones. Phone designs and GUIs have been pretty stagnant in the past several years. Apple brought touchscreen phones to the attention of mainstream consumers, which have other companies a much needed kick in the butt!

[Henry @ Feb 15th 2007 5:40PM]

What did fitty say to his grandma when he saw her making socks for him?
...
GEE, YOU KNIT?

[Pat @ Feb 15th 2007 5:40PM]

Given this is a gadget geek forum, most of us probably don't like iPods. I like the fidelity and all the little buttons on my MD, and I esp. like the japanese manual. I want a cell phone with a terminal program and a serial port.

The iPhone is not for us - so why are we obsessed with it, although I can guarentee my sisters will want it.

[Chris @ Feb 15th 2007 6:34PM]

"If the battery goes dead on an MP3 player, you don't get to listen to music. If it goes dead on a phone, you don't get to conduct your business."

I've had a cell phone for 10 years and I've never purchased an extra battery. When my battery goes dead, I just plug it in--business never suffers.

[holyhell @ Feb 15th 2007 10:35PM]

Same cellphone for 10 years, eh? Mind if I call you a liar now?

[SubGenius @ Feb 15th 2007 6:46PM]

I'm so sick and tired of people talking about the iPhone's "touch screen" or saying that other products already have "touch screens".

The iPhone has a MULTI-TOUCH SCREEN not a touch screen.
BIG difference.
HUGE difference.

Also comments about other companies making similar products are off base.
Unless Apple licenses OS X to them it will not be in the same league.
Also the service providers have traditionally dictated to the handset manufacturers how crippled they need to make their phones.
Steve is designing the iPhone, NOT Cingular.
Why do you think Ed Zander was so upset? because he wasn't able to make the telcos bend like Steve did.

[Ang @ Feb 15th 2007 6:58PM]

Anybody that lives in Australia and used Telstra as a Carrier knows how bad they are at treating customers.

They are run like a bureaucracy, don't give a damn about there customer base.

The fact that he has an opinion about the iPhone means he's worried, Telstra don't like change and it takes them years to roll out new technology, in fact they go out of there way to stop progress, by using government to introduce legislation to stop competition.

I Think he's scared that Apple is going dilute and put pressure on all the online services such as bigpondmusic.com and bigpondmovies.com, they are also heavily involved with Microsoft and in most cases offer hardly support for mac.

His criticism about the iPhone is just a smokescreen, it's market share and control of it thats important.

[Nathan @ Feb 15th 2007 7:05PM]

Telstra is the stupidest company in the world, this kind of statement doesn't surprise me. I work for them as a contractor and they have the worst policies, internal management has no idea what they are doing.

[PocketSynch.com @ Feb 15th 2007 7:23PM]

Legitimate criticisms indeed. Anything Apple puts out we know lends itself to at least a little iFanboyism much like any other major vendor (Microsoft, Sony, etc.). But when you release a product that could be as huge as this one especially with the first major market mover advantage you can't afford to make huge mistakes like carrier exclusivity and forbidding pricing.

I disagree that it's such a huge shot in the foot on Telstra's part. They are the only ones that support EDGE so Apple needs them, not the other way around.

[red @ Feb 15th 2007 8:48PM]

I'm sorry engadget guys, but don't go throwing around lines like "We're not really sure what Telstra has to gain by dissing the iPhone, given the fact that it happens to be the only carrier in Australia to support EDGE" without having even a basic understanding of mobile telecommunications in Australia.

See, once again, we have another example of something that's american-centric, and the device just isn't that great for Australia, seeing as it won't even be out here till 2008.

If you were to know a bit about Australian telecommunications, you'd quickly realise that Australia thinks EDGE is crap, and Australia has well and truly superceeded EDGE with HSDPA, which is something we can't say for America.

Our number 1 telco, Telstra, provides 3G HSDPA coverage to 98.8% of Australia. 3 provides this coverage in most metropolitan areas. Optus is getting in on the HSDPA action, and plans to roll it out to cover 96% of the population, and Vodaphone also has HSDPA in select metropolitan areas. So if you haven't picked up on it by now, australia has a HUGE 3G rollout, and a HUGE HSDPA roll out that well and truly surpasses anything else in America.

So with this in mind, why would telstra or any other telco want to stand by a technologically inferior product, that will allow their customers slow net speeds, and limit their profibility by making video calling, vid streaming, music downloads and other services painfully slow or void alltogether?

The fact that apple plan to release such a technologically inferior product to Australia, at such a late date, is proof that telstra are absolutely spot on, that apple don't know what they're doing when it comes to the mobile handset market, at least not in Australia. Releasing a phone supporting crappy EDGE is fine in a country that hasn't fully progressed beyond the dying technology, but Australia well and truly has leap-frogged ahead of the US and made such a step. Before any americans try to say "oh, but you're only 1/10th our size." Yes, our population may be 1/10th the size, but our countries are very similar in size, and our HSDPA coverage extends well into rural/regional/remote areas, hence the 98.8% statistic. I can't beat up on Americans too much, you live in a great country, and it's all thanks to an American that we have this fantastic HSDPA roll out :P

You've also got to realise that a large % of younger mobile users (presumably the target for the iPhone) are on 3 (which will not bring out this product at all, as it doesn't have 3G, furthermore, they won't support the product and customers using it will be locked out of their network for excessive GSM use. Did anyone consider this? It means already, there's a signficant proportion of our mobile users that simply can NOT use the iphone!), or optus (which either has GSM/UMTS).

So before you go being all cool and smug and shooting off your next CE-Oh no he did't! article, perhaps a bit of researh and thinking is in order.

Geez, wasn't it a handful of yanks just this week that told our PM to not interfere in US business! :P

[hubfam @ Feb 15th 2007 9:02PM]

Like 90% (you M.S. ers love that number) of the population. I am either at home, in my car, or at my desk most of the time. Who in the f*&k needs a second battery? Plug it in! What you can't afford an car adapter or a second charger for work? They are cheaper than a second battery you dip s*#t!

It's the only thing you can point to to say "I'm not getting that" Read: I don't have the money!!!!

[LJKelley @ Feb 15th 2007 9:52PM]

@Chris: The Nokia N93 does just that: 3.2 megapixel (2048 x 1536 pixels) camera, Carl Zeiss Vario-Tessar lens, 3x optical zoom, MPEG-4 VGA video capture of up to 30 fps. http://www.nokia.co.uk/A4344129

I always get my fact right!!!

[Mark @ Feb 15th 2007 9:16PM]

Ack...grapes...taste...ugh...sour...pitooee.

[Evan @ Feb 16th 2007 9:18AM]

@LJKelley

You record a video with your Nokia N93 phone, and I'll record a video with a Mini-DVD-R Camcorder, and we'll see how your phone stacks up to "DVD Quality"! I can guarantee that your 1/8th inch CMOS sensor and plastic optics produce rubbish, and rubbish encoded in MPEG-4 is still rubbish! Megapixels does not equal quality, and a "Carl Zeiss lens" in a consumer product is as meaningful as "Corinthian leather". You're just as bad as the Apple fanboys, you blindly believe the marketing crap that Nokia pumps out.

[LJKelley @ Feb 15th 2007 9:55PM]

Here are some more specs from the Nokia N93:

Video resolutions: up to VGA (640x480) at 30 fps
Audio recording: AAC stereo, 48kHz
Digital video stabilization
Video clip length: max. 60 min per clip
Video file format .mp4 (default), .3gp (for MMS)
White balance: automatic, sunny, cloudy, incandescent, fluorescent
Scene: automatic, night
Color tones: normal, sepia, black & white, negative
Zoom: (optical / digital) 3x / up to 8x

It is the only phone I know of that has OPTICAL ZOOM.

[Chris @ Feb 16th 2007 6:53AM]

LJ, I guess DVD quality means something different for you than it does to me.

[Leonard Nimrod @ Feb 15th 2007 11:32PM]

"Same cellphone for 10 years, eh? Mind if I call you a liar now?"
==> He said "a cellphone", not "the same cellphone". I, too, have been using 'a' cellphone for over years now, and I've never needed to change the battery, though I have needed to remove it to reset the crappy software.

"The battery thing is big, you cant deny the problems with batteries on Ipods, geez if the same happened for phones look out."
==> I can deny it because I've never had a problem, unless you mean that it eventually needs to be recharged due to use. Heaven forbid!

Seriously, how many of you walk around with extra cell phones batteries in your pocket? Why not just use a rechargable battery that connects to your power input? That would allow you to continue your call (of whatever) without having to clumsily take your apart your cellphone and restart it.

[barnz2k @ Feb 15th 2007 10:48PM]

Telstra does treat their customers pretty crap and they are overpriced, and I finally got away from them.. Wait overpriced, bad service.. sounds more like apple to me..

Everyone calls MS monopoloy but Apple is the one that owns you because everything you buy has to come from them, at a nice nice profit margin.

The battery thing is big, you cant deny the problems with batteries on Ipods, geez if the same happened for phones look out.
And you know any Apple charger is going to cost twice that of a normal charger.

[wiz420 @ Feb 22nd 2007 7:08PM]

barnz2k:

"And you know any Apple charger is going to cost twice that of a normal charger."

Well, it will use the same charger as the iPod. There are many versions made by different 3rd party companies, and I've never had the dock connector break on me. It always fits snugly and immediately works.

Don't ask how many Motorola and Sony Ericsson chargers I've gone through (about 3 per phone). They have all these external wires and clips that just cease to function after a few months in my experience. The old-school Nokia style plugs are the best, you stick 'em in, and the phone charges. When I plug my Motorola in these days the clip feels like it's going to fall out of the phone, and I have to monkey with it for a couple minutes to bend the cable at the right angle to get it to charge at all.

The Apple charger is proprietary, but at least it does what it's made to do (charge the battery). I think the Motorola and Sony ones are made to break so you have to buy a new one.

[Eugene @ Feb 15th 2007 11:38PM]

wow - this isnt really looking all that good for the aussie release of this phone - first we were told to wait until 2008, now the most promising carrier goes and calls it a rip-off.

Ahh well, with any luck it will get picked up by Optus or Vodaphone here so we arn2t stuck with Telstra's outrageous prices...