http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/ Engadget Comments for Gamer busted for "borrowing" library WiFi after hours http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
after all, there's no report that he 'hacked' into it somehow.

]]>Feb 25th 2007 4:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
can you get sued for using free wifi liberary offers, but during 'after hour' time?

after all, there's no report that he 'hacked' into it somehow.

]]>Feb 25th 2007 4:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/of course.
Are their any restrictions posted about it's use?
probably not.
sounds like he was clever enough to leech of a public municipality which probably didn't bother to make any restrictions.
it's called beating the system, and people do it all the time.]]>Feb 25th 2007 4:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
Which doesn't make it legal. The phrase "beating the system" itself pretty much implies that you're doing something you're not supposed to do. And this guy didn't "beat the system" regardless, because he got caught.

I agree that the library should just shut off their connection after hours, but it's not really a requirement for them to do so in order to be protected under the law. It's the same as if I leave my door unlocked when I go out - that doesn't mean you're free to walk in and take my stuff. I may be stupid for leaving the door unlocked, but it's still trespassing if you come in without my permission.

I think the bottom line with wi-fi is that you have to treat it the same way as any other property. You can't assume permission to use it; you have to assume the opposite. You look for explicity permission, not explicit restrictions. I don't need to tell you not to steal any of my other stuff; why would I need to tell you not to steal my bandwidth? Ignorance is not an acceptable legal defense for breaking the law.

The culture of wi-fi grew up under a slightly different set of social norms, but now that it's grown up and into the mainstream, the same laws as apply to everything else are going to be enforced.
]]>Feb 25th 2007 4:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 4:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
No. That is a terrible analogy. It is more like planting a gorgeous flower garden in your front yard, and getting pissed when people stop in front of your house to take pictures of it. Sure it may be annoying that you have the occasional car full of people admiring your garden while blocking your drive, but if it really bothers you that much, put the garden in the backyard. If someone hops your fence to check out your garden, that is illegal.

Same thing with WiFi. You set up a wireless router, and people around you get on it. If that annoys you, encrypt it. If someone breaks your encryption and hacks into your internet, that is illegal.

People should really learn to think more deeply about an issue. Sure, Jeff's analogy might have seemed valid at first glimpse, but a second look, even a brief one, will tell you that it is wrong. ]]>Feb 25th 2007 7:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
Unlike breaking and entering into physical property, there's no established norm yet for WiFi. Given how many businesses and people provide free WiFi, if anything, the norm is that it's okay to do so -- the same way it's okay to listen to over-the-air radio stations without paying. Unless the library explicitly said you can't access WiFi after hours, then he's not breaking any law, mutually agreed upon social norm, or contractual agreement.]]>Feb 25th 2007 8:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
I think that's not a correct analogy, because the wifi net access for the library is meant to be free(? At least in the UK) and available for anyone to use. IF (big if) the library didn't explicitly say the internet is free only between x and y hours, then I do see a problem with charging him.

Personally, I don't see why they should charge him (if it's a freebie network): Library net use is for everyone, and as long as it's not illegal, he's not committing a crime? ]]>Feb 25th 2007 4:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 4:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 9:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
He/she is not infringing on or preventing the use of the utility for the one paying for it, nor is it creating additional expense for the municipality. He's just using something that would otherwise go unused. The whole concept of "stealing bandwidth" is a crock. It's no worse than "stealing light" from exterior lighting.]]>Feb 25th 2007 8:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
Yes, you can change the WPA encryption key daily.]]>Feb 27th 2007 12:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
Arguing that this is theft is just silly. If anything, he was loitering, but realistically, he was using a public wifi connection. There certainly must be better things to do than pressing charges against a kid for this.]]>Feb 25th 2007 4:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 6:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
Can you sue the kid for it? Well, no, considering it was free to begin with, and the kid never break INTO the place to get it.]]>Feb 25th 2007 4:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 5:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 5:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Perhaps it is time that he learns that there is no free lunch and to have some respect for business hours.


I believe he has TREMENDOUS respect for business hours. the fact he was in his car instead of trying to break it shows that.

It's like getting charged for trying to read by leaning against a closed shop's window, Getting sued for "borrowing lights"]]>Feb 25th 2007 5:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 5:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
"Ignorance of the law is no excuse" I'd imagine wouldn't work here, seeing as most people are ignorant of WiFi restrictions.]]>Feb 25th 2007 5:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 5:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/and if it is his town?
Then he technically paid for it.
and the libraries typically tout that it is "free wifi" and don't put any restrictions on it, so how can you suddenly change that without notice?
If anything it would be loitering.
You can't steal something that is free. You CAN hoard it, but that doesn't make it illegal. It is in fact "beating the system" as i said before, which means finding either a legal gray area or loophole, not getting away with something illegal.]]>Feb 25th 2007 5:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
This is more analogous to me leaving the hose running in my driveway, and getting pissed at kids for playing in the resulting puddles on the street. ]]>Feb 25th 2007 5:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 5:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 6:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/8667098p-8559268c.html]]>Feb 25th 2007 6:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 6:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 7:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 7:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 26th 2007 1:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/

http://old-www.legis.state.ak.us/cgi-bin/folioisa.dll/stattx00/query=computer+network/doc/%7B@3800%7D?]]>Feb 25th 2007 9:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 10:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
What, exactly, was this lad stealing? Bandwidth? Does the library really have an internet service provider that charges by the bit? I sincerely doubt it. So, what was this guy stealing?

And wi-fi as property?? WTF is that?? Is the light spilling from my window property? If I use a FRS radio, is the transmission my property? How about an FM radio station? Should they have the right to control who tunes into their program? If you tune into their program might they be able to charge you money?

How comical it is to watch people come to terms with that which they do not understand.
]]>Feb 25th 2007 10:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 10:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 10:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
Your post contains three sentences filled with stupid.

There is plenty of difference between wifi and copper, but for the purposes of this discussion, its irrelevant, since there was no wireline hookups available.

If he was there a few hours before, when the library was open, he could sit inside and connect. Heck, he could even sit in his car and connect if he wanted to. If he can go in and connect, he is a patron.

Anyone defending the police without knowing all the facts is doing themselves a disservice. The wifi was available without requiring physical access to the library, and he took advantage of the connection on his own time. It seems that libraries are only open when the homeless and the jobless and housewives and children can take advantage of them, good on him for extending the service hours. If they didn't want people using the wifi after hours, they should have posted that fact somewhere instead of the police going all Gestapo on him.]]>Feb 25th 2007 10:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
This is like a Radio station (FM or AM) suddenly charging people for listening to their station. Anything transmitted in a public place is public domain, in my mind. XM and Sirius both transmit in the public domain, however they have security measures in place.

There are plenty of ways this library could have prevented something like this, but they didn't. And when they realized that it was a problem, they still didn't do anything. If you left your toothbrush in Grand Central Station (New York) and wanted to stop people from "borrowing" it, don't you think it would be a good idea to put it somewhere secure?]]>Feb 25th 2007 11:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/It is never stated if the library requires a login of some type, and if there was a signed EULA stating usage agreements. If it is just an unsecure network that is broadcasting at all times, then his actions are perfectly legal, but if there is some type of EULA that was signed by him then it may be infringement on that and subsequently illegal.
]]>Feb 25th 2007 11:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 25th 2007 11:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
Apparently, yes. Lots of analogies here, but I think the best one is either the flowerbed in the front yard, or the FM station, but they are different.

In the flowerbed, another "user" is making ends of some sort THROUGH your (the flowerbed owner)'s effort. In the FM station case, the construct of 'public domain' comes up. Both are valid points.]]>Feb 26th 2007 12:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/the cop don't think this will go to trial. One more thing. He lives at home with his parents who don't let him use the internet after 9pm.]]>Feb 26th 2007 1:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
While I guess there is no perfect analogy I do think the light scenario comes closest.

Here are some other scenarios to consider:

If i pull up to a meter and someone has left an hours worth of parking, am I stealing if I take the previous person's spot? (I know many municipalities would like to say so)

If I go to the bookstore and browse and read an article in a magazine, am I stealing if I decide not to buy the magazine? (You could make an argument, but it's weak)

If I buy a snack from a vending machine and when I go to retrieve my change, I find that a previous customer's change is also there, am I stealing if I take it?

If I go to the library or even better, if I go to the mall on a hot summer day to stay cool because I have no air conditioning in my home, am I stealing if I sit there even if I have no intention of making a purchase?

Am I stealing if I order a kid's meal (which usually has a much smaller portion) at a restaurant despite the fact I am an adult? (Whether I am being cheap is beside the point)

Sticking with food, is it stealing if I buy a meal to go and then split the bill with you?

If I am a petite woman who can fit into kid's shoes, am I stealing if I buy those instead because they are cheaper than the adult version?

Was it stealing when people used to signal each other by ringing the telephone as way of communicating because they didn't want to pay for message units or be charged for a toll call? (Most of you are probably too young to remember that)

Is it stealing to check your e-mail while at work? (Most jobs have eased up on this, I think)

I think I have written enough. Obviously, none of these are clear-cut, but I think most of us would not consider these situations to be stealing either. This is not a situation where a bank teller or store cashier gives you too much change. Or where an item somehow is mistakenly put in the clearance bin - despite every other item in the inventory properly placed. I would love to know where others stand. ]]>Feb 26th 2007 1:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 26th 2007 2:14AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 26th 2007 2:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/2) He has been going around town mooching wifi, and has been repeatedly chased off
3) the guy was told by the police to bugger off the night before, because it is illegal, but the moron chose to come back

As an analogy, look at it as hopping onto somebody's cordless phone base station. Just because my neighbour has a cordless phone system that can broadcast to my property, does not mean that I 'tis okay for me to hop on and use his long-distance or listen in on his calls.
]]>Feb 26th 2007 2:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 26th 2007 4:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
Police and legal action is too much - a lot of tax payers money that could be better used to buy more books for the library.

]]>Feb 26th 2007 7:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/
Now they may be able to prosecute for trespassing BUT I believe I'd simply have my best friend go and park in the parking lot and just sit there listening to music. When the cops come just say you are waiting for someone to meet you. If the cops say you have to leave then ok it's equal oportunity "rules just to make rules" but they are at least enforcing it consistantly. If the cops on the other hand let my friend sit and wait there. BOOM Baby - discrimination law suite and your done with the whole issue.

Any wireless network un-protected is up for grabs, but be careful of the risk - I sometimes turn my protection off just to let stragglers in and then screw with them :).

Point at hand the library can secure it or they can shut their holes. It doesn't cost them anything more for him to be using it after hours. It's just someone being petty. The internet should be free to everyone anytime. In this case our friend Tanner may be just too cheap - or maybe he really can't afford it. Regardless - he shouldn't have to deal with this crap.]]>Feb 26th 2007 9:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/Feb 26th 2007 11:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/gamer-busted-for-borrowing-library-wifi-after-hours/http://megabluewave.com/blog/archives/92 I wrote about an incident which happened in and around my home. One of my neighbors has unsecured WiFi which provided unfiltered internet access in my home. This is something that I do not want and I felt in a way intruded upon in the privacy of my own home. After I wrote a nice email to the neighbor he installed encryption on his network and "got out of my home." ]]>Feb 26th 2007 11:15AM