http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/ Engadget Comments for Steorn Orbo: canceled http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
Make outrageous claims

Offer to exhibt - gain hype

'Have diffulculties' - gain even more hype

Take the money and run.]]>Jul 6th 2007 7:15AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:19AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 9:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2007/07/video_of_qa_sean_takes_it_on_the_chin.html
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chaz]]>Jul 6th 2007 7:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 7:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
I don't think it's a money scheme though, they weren't open to public investments so...We'll see what happens.

Besides I'd like to rub it in engadget's face for calling them shyters if it does, in fact, end up working. ]]>Jul 6th 2007 7:35AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
chaz]]>Jul 6th 2007 7:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
Honestly only time can tell, but I think it would be kind of harsh to not want this to work, ya know? It's like someone saying they have a cure for aids or something and everyone flat out calling them a liar before we can really say otherwise. As far as we know, this device hasn't been disproved, so I can still hold onto a little light in the matter. Until it's proven wrong, there's no point in being against it, they aren't raking in cash from it, they have everything to lose. Hell, these guys are getting threats. This better work or they're as good as dead, heh.]]>Jul 6th 2007 7:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
They've already recieved over £3million euros ($4million) in investments.

"this device hasn't been disproved"

Thats because there isnt anything to disprove. They've not released any information about it or demonstrated it. There was a good article on ZDnet about them which said:-

"it's pseudoscience. They don't have to have a theory for it to be science — in fact, it's clear that they don't — but that doesn't matter. Build a box. Show it working. That's enough. Hans Christian Ørsted showed electromagnetism in 1820 and it wasn't fully explained until James Clerk Maxwell's masterwork nearly 50 years later — but it was all science

It wouldn't even cost them that much. If they'll send me the plans, I'll build one. Having built it, I'll convince myself that it does produce more energy than it takes in — which will take a glass of water, a resistor, a thermometer, a couple of test meters and some basic mathematics, all of which I already have. I shall then get on the train to Cambridge and refuse to leave until the nice people at the Cavendish take a look at it."]]>Jul 6th 2007 7:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
I think the best thing to do is wait until it has been fully tested by scientists and they have come to a final conclusion. No one knows for sure what's going on, not some dude on the internet (you, and myself) nor a website publication. Is it against the law of physics?; hell yes, but so weren't so many things in the past. We also used to be the center of the universe....

So, I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying, I HOPE they aren't full of it. That's all. ]]>Jul 6th 2007 8:13AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/

ps
"We also used to be the center of the universe"

It's pretty ridiculous to compare the first law of thermodynamics to Geocentrism]]>Jul 6th 2007 8:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
I was once told that there is no such thing as fact as we do not know the basis of life. When we think we know for sure, we're wrong.

I could say I know that grass will be green tomorrow or that my pinky will reside on my hand and not my, eh eye or something, but I simply cannot know 100% for sure. He was also insane, but it is a valid point. Nothing is set in stone, and nothing is permanent.

Except of course the energy from this fabulous device...]]>Jul 6th 2007 8:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
I just wanted to add a philisophical aside to what you've been saying. I agree with you that it seems like people in every epoch seem to think they have a lock on universal truths. Science right now has 'natural laws' which are immutable. Scientific theories have become doctrine.

But history has shown time and again that observed phenomena have their limits. "We are the center of the universe" was an observed fact until disproven by better science. "We are the center of the solar system" was again observed and accepted until disproven by better science; by more discrete measurements and better means of analysis.

To assume, yet again, that we understand everything about the universe; that "Natural Laws" are 100% fact, 100% immutable, 100% 100%, is to fall into the same arrogance and short-sightedness that makes ancient science laughable today.

Will science look back 500 years from now and laugh at our ignorance? Only if we insist today that we *know* we're right.]]>Jul 6th 2007 10:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
No serious scientist will ever tell you that he thinks our current theories are 100% correct.
However, ever since physics entered the modern age, you'll notice that even though there have been tremendous revolutions in the way we look at the universe, the former theories were never really abandoned. Rather, we just came to realise that they were a good aproximation to reality, but one that failed under more extreme circumnstances (ie, near the speed of light, near absolute zero temperatures, etc.).
My point is, even if our current physical theories turn out to be wrong regarding energy conservation, I can assure you that the violation of the law will only occur on very particular situations, and on a very small scale (one that our best current tech can't detect). It will most certainly *not* be stumbled upon by accident as these Steorn guys claim.]]>Jul 6th 2007 11:14AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
"My point is, even if our current physical theories turn out to be wrong regarding energy conservation, I can assure you that the violation of the law will only occur on very particular situations, and on a very small scale (one that our best current tech can't detect). It will most certainly *not* be stumbled upon by accident as these Steorn guys claim."

By part of your statement you support my point. I'm not trying ot prove you wrong here, I'm trying to point out that our thinking is similar. As we develop ever more discrete and precise systems of measurement and mathematical models that fit and explain the observations, we can't help but discover "new" scientific phenomena and then develop & exploit technologies based on those discoveries. "New" phenomena that were always there but that were heretofore unobserved and unexploited. Science fiction is filled with devices and technologies that are so far undiscovered, but are being actively or passively researched and are accepted as inevitable rather than pure fancy. Examples include "near-future science fiction" such as room temperature and/or naturally-ocurring monopole magnetism, room temperature superconductivity, anti-gravity and "force" fields, to more fanciful (but taken as a matter of time & engineering) technology including terraforming, faster-than-light travel, inter-dimensional travel, teleportation/apportation, time travel.

And what's to prevent them from stumbling upon it? Microwave technology (as used in your kitchen, not the actual discovery of microwaves themselves) was stumbled upon by a RADAR engineer noticing that his chocolate bar melted when he stood in front of a radar dish. It's quite possible these Steorn folks are a couple of lucky yutzes who stumbled upon something amazing while farking around trying to build a better iPhone headphone magnet or something...]]>Jul 6th 2007 12:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
"Stumbling upon" a perpetual motion machine is hardly comparable to discovering that certain frequencies of microwaves can heat food, because there was never anything to suggest you couldn't. There's a heck of a lot of science which says you can't build a perpetual motion machine, so to "stumble upon" a way of doing so would be like accidentally building a car which can go at twice the speed of light!

As Vëon said - in the (I think highly unlikely) event that perpetual motion was found to be possible it could only be under extreme conditions, such as on a sub-micron scale or at close to absolute zero. There's simply no way a bunch of magnets and perspex at room temperature is ever going to do it! ]]>Jul 6th 2007 1:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Free energy by its very definition is impossible. You just can not get something from nothing. Even at the big bang all the matter in the cosmos already existed, it was just ungodly compact, pun intended.]]>Jul 6th 2007 7:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/]]>Jul 6th 2007 7:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Surely they have just spent investment money that they have borrowed, and will have to pay back (therefore LOSING money in the process of doing this project).]]>Jul 9th 2007 5:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
So if this is a pure money-making scam, they're not running it very well (so far).]]>Jul 9th 2007 4:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 9th 2007 4:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Relax. Guy.]]>Jul 10th 2007 2:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
@Chad, There are plenty of ways to operate a money scheme that isn't open to public investment. Hard to say if it was a con or, like the unfortunate pair of Fleischmann and Pons, a case of over optimistic data interpretation...]]>Jul 6th 2007 8:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
Am I correct in understanding that this thing was built on site for the viewing? Not that it really explains it but is it possible they just botched it? Then again why wouldn't they work insanely to get it functioning etc... It's endless really. Like I keep saying only time can tell. And like I also said, these guys are like, gonna get shot if this is a scam :) . So for their sake, let's hope they aren't lying, if they are, someone go ahead and shoot.]]>Jul 6th 2007 8:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 9:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
There is so much availible energy in the universe to tap, heck the universe is supposedly made of 70% dark energy. There's also so much quantum energy availible that it exceeds all the nuclear output on this planet in the space between one of these words on your screen. Question is how to harness it. And I don't believe these guys did it.]]>Jul 6th 2007 10:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
Think about it. Imagine for a second that this was never a real device, but an art project. We have never seen an art project that was anticipated like this before where people all over the world are tuning in to see it through webcams, people are traveling to london to see this, and so on. Build up hype for years, and then when you do exhibit it, it is at an art museum focusing on the melding of art and technology(think using the internet as a medium for a gallery instead of a brick and mortar). When was the last time an art project was this hyped up and had people all over the internet debating on things like engadget, digg, the JREF forums, and a load of others. I am thinking this was art, and if it was, its genius. He has shown the internet as a medium to showcase some art, and by being professional enough, you can get a whole number of people behind you to believe anything. This is one of the few purported free energy devices to get any press, why? Maybe he just tried real hard to make this thing look viable by providing financial statements, pro looking website, etc etc etc.

So what say you? Genius artist, con artists, or bumbling idiots?]]>Jul 6th 2007 8:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 3:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 7th 2007 2:39AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
-and if they do, they quickly change back. :(]]>Jul 6th 2007 8:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/
That is all.]]>Jul 6th 2007 8:28AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Jul 6th 2007 8:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/bamboozil/OhNoesss.jpg[/IMG]]]>Jul 6th 2007 9:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/ "We also used to be the center of the universe"
> It's pretty ridiculous to compare the first law of thermodynamics to Geocentrism

Actually it strikes me as a pretty good comparison.

Except it's the other way around: way back when people still believed earth is flat, they believed a lot more in free energy as well. There were perpetual motion machine designs by the thousands. And lots of them patented even.

Reality is harsh though: no free energy, and no center of the Universe :(

But... actually it's not that harsh when you think about it. We're bathing in hundreds of types of energy (geomagnetical power, nuclear power, sunlight power, wind power, foil oil power). All of this becomes power ready for us to use, if we just have the right technology to capture it and convert it.

And having great technology to convert *actual* available abundant energy is almost like free energy! Who'd need energy out of nowhere, if we had so effective sun batteries that could charge your car for 24/7 operation just by sitting in the sun 2 hours daily?

We also have the added benefit the Universe won't collapse unto itself from the weird paradox free energy would create.]]>Jul 6th 2007 9:13AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/steorn-orbo-canceled/Sir, I hate to say this, but you are an idiot.
"if we had so effective sun batteries that could charge your car for 24/7 operation just by sitting in the sun 2 hours daily"
Impossible, and not because we don't have the technology but because the energy is not there! Just supposing you had a perfect solar collector 1 meter square, in two hours the most it could get would be 2,732 watts - an amount equivalent to less than a litre of gasoline, enough fuel for no more than a few miles.

"Except it's the other way around: way back when people still believed earth is flat, they believed a lot more in free energy as well. There were perpetual motion machine designs by the thousands. And lots of them patented even."
This is really stupid, there was never a common belief that the world was flat, this is due to a story by Washington Irving and has no basis in fact. The ancient Greeks measured the circumference of the Earth to within a couple of percent, not really a productive exercise if you think the world is flat. There can be no patents from “then” because that time never existed. Also there will be no patents for machines which could never work, any that might have been erroneously issued would have been revoked.
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