Ask Engadget: Pentax K10D, Nikon D80 or what?

We covered the budget end of the spectrum last month on Ask Engadget, but the release of Sony's new Alpha A700 DSLR seems as good a time as any to tackle the DSLR market. Phil wrote in for help on choosing between the numerous attractive entry-level DSLRs out there:

"I've been wanting to do some photography for a while. I don't have much specific technical knowledge in terms of cameras, but I know the sort of stuff I like (macro, scenic, sports photography). I've never owned an SLR and thus I do not have any lenses and such, so I'm free to use any brand. I've read reviews comparing the Nikon D80 with the Canon 400D, and they mostly say that the D80 is more expensive, but the difference is worth the money. The Pentax K10D has been receiving favourable reviews and has just recently been voted the best camera in Europe (can't remember by whom). My budget would be around US$1000 including 1 or 2 decent lenses to get me started. I'm open to ideas of other cameras as well (Sony Alpha maybe?) Have to consider the "ecosystem" (i.e. availability / variety / quality of lenses available) as well."

Leave your suggestions for Phil in the comments, and don't forget to write in with your own questions to ask at engadget dawt com!

[Richard @ Sep 6th 2007 8:57PM]

I'm in the same boat as well. After doing some research I am leaning heavily towards the Sony Alpha ($600-700 isn't too bad a price for the quality you get). Hopefully some pro's can help us out :)

[Ken Allen @ Sep 6th 2007 8:57PM]

The D80. Ergonomics are far better than any camera, great sensor, and the Nikon will definitely outperform the 400D or any other camera brands equivalent. I'd take a look at the 24-120 AF-S VR for the D80. Great medium telephoto lens with the added bonus of VR.

[Charlie Monty @ Sep 7th 2007 1:30AM]

Hey buddy, Have you considered to buy an Olympus camera?. I bet every nikon and canon fanatic to this site would say I am crazy, Olympus is not even an option when you want to buy an SLR, but trust me, I have seen thousand of entry level camera reviews and bought Olympus E-VOLT E_500 and Canon Rebel xTi and i can tell you Olympus EVOLT E-510 is right now the best entry level DSLR camera to the market. (It won an EISA award as the best European consumer camera 2007-2008) I t has a lot of innovations like a patented (and the only useful) dust reduction system that cleans the sensor, Built in camera Image Stabilization (so you dont have to pay for this function every time you buy a nikon or canon lens) and Live View screen mode. I told you I own an Olympus E-500 (the previous model) and i have not seen better display on any canon or nikon at any price and this is very useful when you take pictures in outdoors. Finally this is a very user friendly cam (and olympus has another prize for the highest customer satisfaction in cameras at this pice). I just can tell you I started using mine without even reading the manual. I can not deny Canon and Nikon have the best cameras for over 1,500 bucks, but if you want to buy the very best entry level camera for less than 1,000 USD you can not go wrong with Olympus EVOLT E-510. the only little issue is the CCD to this camera is smaller than APS sized canon and nikon, but if you see it as an advantage you will have a 28-84 and a 80-300mm lenses (as 35mm equivalent for the 14-42 and 40-150mm). It means the camera has a 2x conversion factor versus 1,5 or 1,6 in nikon and canon cameras. If you buy this with two lens kit for about 900 USD the package. I HAVE SAID

[Spencer @ Sep 7th 2007 2:51AM]

Hi,

What you're doing with the SLR should help you decide - all of the cameras mentioned so far will suffice as a first DSLR.

I have owned many cameras over the years, including, Pentax, Minolta, Olympus, Fuji and Nikon and have to say that the two Nikons a D80 and an FM2 are superb cameras. One of the best things about them is the viewfinder - they are very large and clear and really help when composing an image.

For a first camera though, I would suggest the Pentax DSLR - their K1000 film camera was considered an essential piece of equipment at photography schools the world over.

They're not the fanciest, but they're reasonably priced and once you've mastered it - you will know what you really like and dislike in a DSLR and wil know better for next time. Also you will have saved money for a decent lens which is far more important!

Regards,
Spencer.

[Mac Dub @ Sep 7th 2007 10:24AM]

@ Charlie. I appreciate what you say about saving some money and going for the Olympus. I've spent the last few weeks looking at cameras in this price point on dpreview and the K10D is on the short list.

One thing bending me towards the Nikon / Canon is that one day I may upgrade to a more powerful SLR and I'd like to bring my lenses with me. The D200 won't stay above 1,000 forever. Am I doing the right thing in planning for that day? I hope so.

[ahrenl @ Sep 7th 2007 7:57PM]

The Canon 30D can be had for Under $1,000 for the body, and will blow the socks off any of this entry level equipment. I would stay with Canon and Nikon because of their lens quality availability. While there are some good 3rd party lens crafters, Nikon and Canon are both clearly superior. My personal view is that Canon has a slight up on the longer/faster lenses. You'll be happy with either brand.

I'm not a fan of the 350 or 400D as the body is just too small to comfortably fit in my hands. YMMV.

[JugoGoya @ Sep 6th 2007 8:57PM]

DPReview.com is a great place to review cameras. After much research, I just emerged myself into the Olympus DSLR arena with an E-510. I was always a Canon fan, but with the quality of lens that Oly offers, you cant go wrong. The Oly E-510 with the 2 kit lens could run you about 8 and change, with a nice 4gb CF card and bag putting you at 1K and that should keep you in budget. E-510 all the way.

[Liam @ Sep 7th 2007 1:38AM]

Uh, better quality than Canon lenses? Does not compute, sir.

[laurie @ Sep 7th 2007 12:03PM]

Reply to Liam.

Afraid it /does/ compute mate. The Olympus kit lenses blow the Canon kit lenses out of the water. The more expensive Olympus lenses generally beat the nearest Canon equivalent in terms of image quality and distortion. The Oly ultra-wide zooms blow anything available for Canon away easily. Sure the pro lenses aren't cheap but no lenses of that quality are cheap.

To answer the original question "My budget would be around US$1000 including 1 or 2 decent lenses to get me started."

To be honest I hope your definition of decent is slightly different to mine or you are going to be a little dissapointed. You should be able to get a DSLR with a couple of acceptable lenses for that budget, but not decent. One decent lens will cost most of your budget.

Look at any system, they are all equally capable of taking good pictures, don't believe all the Canon trolls marketing hyperbole.

[protom @ Sep 6th 2007 9:04PM]

I would definitely go for a D80 I wn a d200 and I must say that the d80 is almost the same camera minus the magnesium body
The erggonomy of Nikon's cameras is far better than canon's one plus one wery important point the d80 (d200) and pentax K10D all have a quite large viewfinder wich is not something to take lightly

[Zgradis @ Sep 6th 2007 9:05PM]

d80 FTW i've had it for a few weeks now after an upgrade from a d40, and it produces stunning pictures! I loved my d40 it was a great camera but I wanted a bit more, and the d80 is definitely a solid camera. It has one of the best CCD's in my eye, plus when your ready to upgrade lens' the 18-200VR lens is one of the best on the market, its a bit pricey but its a one lens shoot all type lens... You don't need to buy 8 lens' to get great pictures, the 18-200VR will make you glee with joy! I would highly recommend the d80 for its solid feel and great big viewfinder and wonderful warm colors. If you have any specific questions feel free to reply to my specific quote.

[protom @ Sep 6th 2007 9:08PM]

You can check out a few pictures I made with my d200 to have an idea of the quality you can get from a D80
here : http://www.thomasgarret.net/pro/Photographe.html
and there : http://www.thomasgarret.net/perso/Photosperso.html

[Richard @ Sep 6th 2007 9:14PM]

Those are some beautiful pictures!

[protom @ Sep 6th 2007 9:26PM]

Thanks ;-)

[Kevo @ Sep 6th 2007 10:18PM]

Any tips or books you recommend to get some of those effects???

Great pics.

[manogamez @ Sep 6th 2007 11:19PM]

What everyone seems to ignore is that fact that your camera only takes you so far. Lenses, lighting techniques, composition, and timing are MUCH more important ingredients in a photograph.

[protom @ Sep 7th 2007 5:52AM]

Well not really
You have to practise and be creative ;-)

[wizzard @ Sep 6th 2007 9:10PM]

get the K10D only if you are a control freak and willing to tweak settings. It also costs less to own as it is backwards compatible with all Pentax lenses; old lenses = cheap.
Just don't expect it to take great pictures straight out of the box. It has a steep learning curve.
However if you really want a SLR, get the K10D; otherwise just get a point & shoot from Canon.

[Willowbeef @ Sep 6th 2007 9:25PM]

Wow...that's a little harsh. The K10D isn't that much harder to use than the D80, but you just have more options. You can still change it to green mode and let the camera decide everything for you (if that's what you want).

[Kenny Myers @ Sep 6th 2007 9:14PM]

I would reccomend the K10, unless you *really* like sports photography. I say that beacuse the K10 beats the D80 hands down in terms of features, including its anti-shake mechinism, which is built into the camera, and does some really cool stuff, like how it can rotate foreward and back to compensate for the blur caused when you press the shutter release. But this in camera type shake is no good when you are photographing a moving target, say a player on the field. And Pentax's new lenses are great, and range from cheap (~$100 for the kit 18-55) on up to the really high end (~$1k for their new high end DA* f2.8 (I think) 55-135, which is supposed to own BTW). But like someone else said, it comes down to ergonomics and picture quality (also, some early reviews of the K10 faulted a "soft" look to some of their photos, an issue that Pentax addressed in a firmware update just after a few of those reviews went out), so I would go down to your local photo store and look at what they have to play around with...

[Jim Goldstein @ Sep 6th 2007 9:10PM]

I've been shooting for over 10 years, half of that with a digital SLR. I'd recommend the Canon 400D or possibly getting a used D30. Canon is by far the leader in dSLR technology. They make their own sensors and continually are setting the trend with higher end products. These advances filter down pretty quickly to lower end models. Best of luck.

Jim
http://www.jmg-galleries.com

[Josh @ Sep 6th 2007 9:20PM]

While canon has been leading, most of the photographers are starting to ponder that lead with the advent of the new flagship nikons. Being a canon user, i absolutely love my 350D despite its small size (finally took the bullet and bought a grip that amazon screwed up and didnt get to my house on-time er... today). I know for nikon you will need to buy the D80 due to the lack of full support in the D40's. My recomendation is to buy a relatively cheap dSLR to start on and get some half decent glass - it is much MUCH more efficient to spend money on glass (it last forever and isnt outdated in 2 years like camera electronics).

It really is a personal preference as to which brand you go to, but i really dont think you can go wrong with canon or nikon (i know nothing about the other brands). It pretty much comes down to which system you feel more at home on and in control of, there is plenty of overhead to grow into as both brands manufacture excellent glass.

hope that helps,
~Josh

[VJH @ Sep 6th 2007 9:44PM]

Glass is forever, but good glass is worth having forever. Personally, I suggest buying full-frame lenses, whenever possible, over that designed for APS-C sensors. A 17 mm lens still has a 17 mm focal length regardless of it being full-frame or APS-C, but the latter will never work on your 5D, D3, or full-frame Sony (if Sony ships one).

[mattias @ Sep 6th 2007 9:12PM]

My wife is an amateur photographer, and we are on our second Pentax DSLR.
Prior to that, I worked for 5 years at a professional photo studio..
I'm no expert, but the K10D is an amazing camera.
Cut to the chase, the biggest downfall of the K10D is that it is not one of the big two. The lenses are not as available. Mind you, the lenses are some of the nicest ones you can get though!
I would go read the review by dpreview, he does a nice quick overview of the great features.

[Tibwolf @ Sep 6th 2007 9:16PM]

You could buy a D80, an f/1.8 50mm (75) lens for macro and speed shooting, and a 70-300mm (105-400) vr for shooting slower sports.

With that setup, you can take macro pics from a little ways away, you get a pretty decent range for shooting sports, and VR to help you ease into your camera. The only downsides to this are that the 70-300 isn't the fastest lens for shooting sports, you lose some close-range flexibility, and the price is a little more than you specified.

For $1000, you wont get much more than a body and a starter lens. If you were willing to spend around $2000, you could get a f/2.8 80-200mm (140-300) vr and a d80 kit w/ an 18-135 lens. That would get you fast sports shooting and some pretty decent range.

[Daniel @ Sep 6th 2007 10:33PM]

I have a Nikon D80 and I love it, it has a solid build quality, great button layout and amazing results! I highly recommend it.

[Jasmine @ Sep 6th 2007 9:20PM]

I am by no means a camera expert, but from the three months or so that I've had the Nikon D80, I must say it is an excellent camera, and worth every penny.

It might be out of your price range, but if you're lucky, you might find a good deal on eBay (and some sellers are willing to provide multiple lenses, tripods, memory cards, and other accessories).

If not, I hear the Nikon D40x is a great alternative for its price.

[Willowbeef @ Sep 6th 2007 9:21PM]

I love my Pentax K10D, but I also love primes. No other company delivers the selection or quality of Pentax prime lenses. Oh yeah, and since you're on a budget, I would suggest that you take a look for used Pentax lenses...the K10D supports all Pentax lenses since the mid 1970's, focus confirmation and all. I was in the same situation as you about 9 months ago and after choosing the K10D I couldn't be happier. Oh yeah, and the kit lens is really good too.

[Gibber @ Sep 6th 2007 9:26PM]

I chose the K10D, and haven't regretted it once. The Pentax limited series lenses are some of the best glass you can get, period. And the body itself is robust, inexpensive, and contains a tonne of features and modes that just put it head and shoulders above the competition.

Main limitation of the K10D is the shooting and autofocus speed. If you need something faster, though nearly twice the price, the 40D (NOT 30D) would be the best choice.

[james cumming @ Sep 7th 2007 12:54AM]

Image quality on all of these products is excellent... it then comes down to ease of use, features, ergonomics, build quality etc - which I believe the D80 excels in. Don't get sucked into gimicky features such as dust reduction etc. The 400D is also a great camera, but I would fork out that little bit extra and get the Nikon.

[Cal @ Sep 6th 2007 9:26PM]

Forget Pentax. Sure the K10D is a better camera than a rebel XTI, but you have to realize that you're buying into a system of lenses and flashes, not just a camera body. A Pentax enthusiast friend of mine who just got a k10d told me that people were picking up two of them because it seems the future of pentax is in doubt. Stick with canon and nikon, you know they'll still be in the camera business next year. the D80 is a great bang for the buck camera as is canon's rebel. You could save some money initially getting the rebel and spending some more on your first lens and the canon's also produce pictures with less sensor noise. But either way you can't lose going with canon or nikon.

[Jeremy D Pavleck @ Sep 6th 2007 9:27PM]

I'm a photographer, and I shoot Nikon, so you'd think I'd tell you to go with them - but I won't. What you need to do is hold each one in your hands, see which one feels right. When it comes down to it, the differences between the major players is very small. I like the glass Nikon offers, though the Pentax is excellent too - I'd probably go with the D80 if I had to pick between the 2.

[nettle @ Sep 7th 2007 2:08PM]

I agree with your advice, Jeremy.

It's not so much about which brand, but which camera works for you.

Most DSLRs today will give anyone beautiful color and incredible detail. Whether the camera takes 'good' pictures or not is mostly left to the person behind the lens =)

I was all set to buy in to the Canon family almost 3 years ago. I had a last minute switch to Nikon after I handled both the D70 and 20D.

IMO, the most important combo is getting the best lens you can afford with the body you like to use. In the sub $1k range, that's a tough call.

If you like the feel of the Nikons, I just set a friend on a budget up with a D40 (not a D40x) and the Nikon 18-135 lens. For $850 (shipped Next Day Air from Adorama) with a 2GB card and a UV protection filter, I think it's a helluva deal. I think for around $1k you could get a D40x fitted with the same options.

If you like the feel of the Canons, the 8 Megapixel Rebel (get it in black, the silver scratches) is a bona fide steal right now. I think you could score this body with a 28-135 IS lens for less than $1k if you looked around.

If you're looking to expand your horizons and want to get the most out of your equipment, I'd stick with Canon and Nikon. Their flash systems (I give the edge to Nikon's) are without equal in the DSLR market.

IMO, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, Samsung, and Sony/Konica are best left to people who will be satisfied not having access to the lens and flash/flash control options Nikon and Canon offer.

It's a big investment, and I wouldn't dare make it unless you handle the cameras 1st hand. I think the research/knowledge part you're going to have in spades ;)

[James Ottaway @ Sep 6th 2007 9:29PM]

I am in a very similar position to you: about to buy my first DSLR.

I am about to take the drop on a Canon 400D w/ the two kit lenses. I also intend to get a 50mm f/1.8 lens, which I heard is very quick and great for macro and portraits.

Nikon is also a great brand, but I feel as though Canon have a better range of lenses, both from Canon and third parties like Sigma and Tamron, so you have a better choice and can find better prices. Canon also have a great range of bodies which will allow me to upgrade the body to a more professional option later without having to throw out my lenses. I also feel that Canon has a better UI than Nikon, but this is a personal thing. The best thing to do before you decide is go and get some hands on time with a Canon and a Nikon.

The problem with Pentax is that they only offer two bodies: the K100D Super and the K10D, which doesn't offer you much choice if you want to upgrade to a better camera later without having to ditch your lenses.

Also, if you look on Flickr, the most popular DSLR is the 350D (superseded by the 400D), but is about to be overtaken by the 400D.

[SuprSpy79 @ Sep 6th 2007 9:29PM]

I am a proud owner of a Pentax and it takes great pictures. To be honest all the cameras will take the same photos to the untrained eye, its really the photographer that makes the good pictures. Proper lighting and good subjects taken with a cheap $100 cmos camera can look better than an amateur with a DSLR. Save some money but the pentax and a few books on how to take good pictures :).

[compejasiu @ Sep 6th 2007 9:30PM]

DSL is a great way to go if you want to increase your picture quality. I got a D80 about 2 months ago and love it! One thing I do suggest is get a stock lens. Get used to how the camera works and then see what you will want to shoot. When you see a need for something you can then get it. Good lenses are expensive but are worth every penny. You can easily pay for a lens that's worth more than your camera.

My biggest recommendation is to go to a store that has these camera on display and hold each and everyone of them. Take a few shots, see how like the design, the feel. This is how I decided I wanted the Nikon over a Olympus or a Canon XTi.

[Andrew @ Sep 7th 2007 12:27AM]

I bought the Samsung GX10, which is actually the K10D with a far better interface. It's the exact same camera with nicer buttons on the back and a more modern UI on screen. I think the price just dropped on it too.

I bought it because of the feature set, particularly the sealed casing. (Also all of the same features in the Pentax K10D) I travel a lot so I was looking for a really durable model. Back in July I took it to a bunch of pyramid sites in the mountains in Mexico and it held up really well, took over 2400 shots in two weeks. It has image stabilization that actually works. The sensor cleaning system is becoming a standard feature on all entry-level DSLRs, but that's irrelevant because none of them work anyway. But your biggest concern won't be features -- it'll be the lenses.

You can get the K10D with the lens kit for under a grand, but keep in mind that no matter what entry-level you choose, you're going to spend well over that budget when you include good lenses. My first two lenses are a really nice Sigma 18-55mm macro ($450) and a cheaper Samsung 55-200mm zoom lens ($150). They've both given me excellent shots. If you want to get a do-it-all lens that covers the whole range, (as I will soon) expect to spend $400 or more. For example, the holy grail of all digital camera lenses, the Nikon 18-200mm VR, costs like $750... and you probably still have to back-order it.

My biggest concern was fewer lens options, but as Pentax expands its DSLR range that won't be considered an issue any longer. It's certainly not for me right now -- my macro lens in particular is very high quality and solid build. There are plenty of other options for Pentax mounts.

Although I've played around with the Nikons and Canons, I've never owned one myself, so I can't draw many comparisons -- this is my entry-level camera. All I can say is that I have no regrets about buying this camera -- I'll be taking it every time I get on a plane.

Oh ya, no matter which brand you choose, always get an extra battery and extra class 6 (high-speed) SDHC card.

[Jonathan Greene @ Sep 6th 2007 9:34PM]

Whenever the japanese make a camera, they hand it to Ken Rockwell to decide. If its good, he names it Nikon. If its bad, he names it cannon. One day he received a camera so bad he couldn't even call it a cannon, and thus pentax was born.

I only kid, though if i were you id get a D50 (discontinued but easy to find and cheap) and get some quality glass, all the cameras listed here are already their way out, the d80 is gonna be replaced sometime next year, especially with the advent of the d300, id say invest in some quality lenses, get used to shooting with a dslr and then buy a higher end pro-dslr that will be up to date farther in the future. "It is a poor photographer who blames his equipment."

[cc @ Sep 12th 2007 2:27PM]

No offense, Mr. Greene, but you are clearly unaware of any facts about the camera market whatsoever with this statement. Firstly, until the advent of digital cameras, Pentax was _the_ leader. They were the first to bring an SLR to the enthusiast (they did invent the pentaprism that was used in pretty much every SLR for a while after they introduced it - you know the one that was bright enough and cheap enough to produce an SLR that an average Joe could afford), and the K1000 was _the_ SLR for years. The SMC lenses were, and still are, some of the best on the market. Cannon was a nobody when Pentax ruled the market - you might forget that piece of history: the little bit players like Nikon and Cannon doing anything they could to try and grab a bit of Pentax's market share.

If you really understood the history of cameras, you'd understand their primary fault was continuing to focus on film systems as the dSLR market emerged. If you think they're some late company that only produces crap, then not only are you ill-informed about the past, but also the present. (Which manufacturer had a single camera win ALL of the major photo awards this year? Give ya one guess.)

[Zal @ Sep 6th 2007 9:36PM]

Here is my humble recommendation: Take EVERYONE'S comments with a large grain of salt. People will recommend what they already own, so you'll get enthusiastic endorsements of everything.

Here's what you need to do: Go to a camera store and HOLD each model in your hands. Look through the viewfinder. Press the shutter. Go into the menus and scroll around. How does the grip feel? Is the shutter release in the right location for YOUR hands? Are the controls intuitive? Nikon and Canon have VERY different views of ergonomics, grip size, button placement, etc. Chances are, one of these cameras will feel much more comfortable in YOUR hands. Buy that one. After all, this is a physical tool that is used for a purpose--you need to feel comfortable using it.

[Brian V @ Sep 6th 2007 9:51PM]

I totally agree. The whole point of having a SLR is having control over the parameters of each photo. But if your hands are too big or too small your not going to be able to quickly change those settings. You'll just take great photos in auto, but never get creative with photography.

And it's not just your hands; its whether you can interact quickly and efficiently with the interface. It's whether the camera feels balanced and secure, even when your in awkward position. It's how easily you can look through the viewfinder. Does your nose hit the buttons on the back of the camera when you look through the viewfinder?

It's that stuff that will determine how you use the camera, whether you take it with you, how often you take it out of the case.

[Thursday @ Sep 6th 2007 9:37PM]

Go with the K10D. It has won 3 major awards since it's release:
1) Best D-SLR Expert in Europe 2007 by Technical Image Press Association (TIPA)
2)The Camera Grand Prix 2007 by Camera Journal Press Club (CJPC) in Japan
3) EISA European Camera of the Year 2007-2008” by European Imaging & Sound Association (EISA)

The Lenses available for it are incredible. Not only will it meter and give focus conformation with every k-mount lens ever made, it will also do all that with Screwmount lenses (with adapter).
Buy the Camera, go to KEH, get a 50mm f/1.4 or f/1.2, pick up the kit lens, and maybe the 50-200mm, and you have a great kit.
Pentax has made some of the most legendary lenses ever, like the 200mm f/2.8 A* Macro, the greatest Macro lens ever made (just do a search, you might even find one made to work on Canon mount)

[Karl @ Sep 6th 2007 9:38PM]

I own a D80 and love it, IMHO the build quality is what really differentiates it from the Canon 400, side by side the Nikon feels better. Featurewise they are very similar. I bought it with the 18-135 kit lens and find it to be a very versatile lens, I also have an 80-200 2.8, and a 50mm 1.4 which is brilliant for low light photography in low light without using the flash. All of the cameras will take brilliant pictures, but remember your lenses will last a lifetime and you'll be changing the body in a few years, so they are the real investment.

[walterhsiao @ Sep 6th 2007 9:41PM]

Take a look beyond the camera. You're also buying into a lens system, unless you stick with a single lens. Here's some of my opinions on cameras and systems.

Pentax K10D:
- Shake Reduction (it's amazing what it can do with a f/1.4 lens)
- Weathersealing
- High quality compact primes that are half the size of Canon equivalents (take a look at the limited series)
- Limited selection of zoom lenses
- No current telephoto lenses beyond 200mm
- No USM/SWM/HSM (except in the two latest and future lenses)
- Worst focusing speed
- No full frame upgrade path
- Probably the best camera for your money, if the system meets your needs.


Nikon D80:
- Good selection of mid-range, high quality lenses, especially if you're a single-lens SLR user.
- Pro lenses are really expensive
- Probably the best flash system

Canon 400D/40D:
- Best High ISO performance by at least a stop
- Best telephoto selection
- f/1.2 lenses, if you can afford them.
- Wide primes aren't very good
- Most consumer lenses aren't very good
- 400D has the worst build quality

I own a K10D.

[Ed @ Sep 8th 2007 5:02AM]

I own a k10d+grip+540 flash if you think its crap then think again, before i got this camera I had a pentax *ist Dl take a look at my work

www.dopeytree.com

and all with the kit lens. So now im all set to move my glass up a few notches.

People always seems to forget the prices of canon and nikon glass - well its stupidly expensive compared to pentax or even sigma.

And if you do want those extra telephoto lens pentax made them for their film cameras back then so you can still use em and dont forget he 1.5X effect also SIGMA make great lens and even cheaper

[Trevor Clark @ Sep 6th 2007 9:39PM]

Just a few words, Panasonic Lumix DCM-L1K. I hope you enjoy it because it is AMAZING. Worth every dollar ($1,499). Hop on the Lumix wagon.

[Synwpn @ Sep 6th 2007 9:39PM]

I got my Nikon D80 6 months ago and love it! It takes stunning pictures and the body was a perfect fit in my hands. I got it with the 28-135 lens which is great for 85% of what I shoot. Been considering a lens, but am slowly realizing that I probably don't need it.

[Amr @ Sep 6th 2007 9:45PM]

I only entered the world of DSLR a month ago, and had only been point & shooting before. As you, I was in a complete mess over which camera to buy. I had put up a limit of $800 on the budget, and at first decided on the D40x, then on the Sony Alpha, and finally I bought a Canon 400D (XTi). Three reasons:

One, almost all their lineup is good-reviewed, so should I upgrade later, I will find good alternatives and keep my glass.

Two, I didn't want to be the one who discovers what Sony's plans are in the DSLR world.

Three, and this is the most important, if you take a look at how the popular photos on flickr taken with a 400D look like, well, let us just say the camera can take some hell of great pictures, and till I reach to the point at which I can take equally good picture, then I deserve to get a more expensive one.

[almostinfamous @ Sep 6th 2007 9:48PM]

in short, you can't go wrong these days and all you need to do is get to your local camera store and feel them all up before you buy one ;)

now for the longer version:

quite honestly, if you want nikon get the D200. the D80 won't meter with older(and therefore cheaper) manual focus lenses. it's build quality is at least an order of magnitude better than the D80 and the metering system is way more reliable. plus with the D300 coming out soon, prices are going to plummet and apart from that gorgeous screen, it's not that much of an upgrade.

however, for bang/buck ratio you cannot beat the K10D. for the price you get a weather sealed body that offers great backwards compatibility. so you may have to shoot RAW more. i don't see that as being that great of a setback, and in fact more of an advantage because that's what a lot of people end up doing anyway.plus, it's a hell of a lot more user friendly than film ever was.

the latest olympus offerings are good as well, and the maturity in the 4/3 sensor is improving, leading to better performance overall. it's great for macros because you get so much more depth of field with the smaller sensor. you're given the short end of the stick wrt wideangle though, and since it's all new, lenses have no backward compatibility whatsoever and you have to buy all glass new (=$$$$) which kinda blows.

oh and if you're buying canon, skip the Rebel XT (300D) and the 20D because their LCDs are small and deceitful. anything else is good to go

[Tony @ Sep 6th 2007 9:49PM]

dont know if anyone said this, but the sony alpha (a100 ) is likely going to be discontinued by christmas, so you could possibly get one even cheaper then, or they may come out with a new amature level camera for the same price. who knows. but i have the alpha and i like it a lot. you wouldnt be dissapointed