CE-Oh no he didn't! Part XLV: Amiga head says new AmigaOS 5 "better than OS X"

Sure, we know you and your Video Toaster have been gutted over this whole AmigaOS 4 debacle... what's that? You've never heard of OS 4? You didn't know Amiga was still around? You hadn't heard that Bill McEwan, CEO of Amiga says the company's next OS is going to be "better than OS X?" Well time to perk up those ears, kiddo. In a truly enthralling read, the head of the defunct hardware-maker / software company says that Amiga is hard at work on a number of projects, not the least of which is the follow up to company's OS 4 -- which has been mired in development disputes with a company called Hyperion Entertainment since 2001 -- AmigaOS 5. A piece of software guaranteed to surprise and thrill the technology community at large, mostly (we suspect) due to the fact that no one even knew the company was still in business. Sure, some of the detractors say they haven't released a product in seven years, but what's seven years when you've got that pile of platinum that is OS 5? Exactly.

[Via Slashdot]

[arnhtn @ Oct 6th 2007 10:56PM]

Anxiously awaiting the first MAC fanboy comment......!!!!!!!!!!!!.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Will @ Oct 6th 2007 11:38PM]

Man, you platform fanboy butthurters are a pain. It's like watching Ann Coulter fist-fighting Michael Moore.

Anyway, best of luck to Amiga in the platform wars. I can literally *almost* remember when they were a "thing".

[John @ Oct 7th 2007 1:11AM]

oh come on, I bloody hate Apple but this is ridiculous. You don't have to be a fanboy to get annoyed when people make unsubstantiated claims about the quality of their products

[Montevale @ Oct 7th 2007 1:17AM]

Does which OS question really matter?... no really?
All operating systems on the market today are sort of ok.
None are great.
In order for it to be great it needs to be completely re-written.
The old code needs to be dumped along with the support for legacy applications... and this is the biggest challenge. We need those old programs to run. ...and this is sort of like a catch 22.
Another challenge is the hardware that is becoming a bloatware of its own. The x86 configuration must be abandoned. It has so many bottlenecks in it's age old architecture that it makes it no longer possible to have substantial improvements and further (noticable) development in this direction are going to be very difficult, expensive and obsolete.
Further develpment in OS most likely is goint to stem out of the embeded os(s) camps carried by the phones, mp3 players and other gadgets like Nokia's internet tablet. It is only logical to expect it to come from the direction where the ground has not been set in stone yet. It is time to move on... it is a wonderful time!

[josh @ Oct 7th 2007 11:49AM]

"Another challenge is the hardware that is becoming a bloatware of its own. The x86 configuration must be abandoned. It has so many bottlenecks in it's age old architecture that it makes it no longer possible to have substantial improvements and further (noticable) development in this direction are going to be very difficult, expensive and obsolete."

Dude, seriously, the x86 is bloat and needs to be abandoned line died out several years ago, far prior to Apple ditching the Power architecture. The switch to x86-64 has been a substantial improvement in the server space. The move to a multi-core architecture has also both improved performance of the OS and increased the performance per watt of the processor. While multi-threaded applications that take full advantage are more difficult to program, the multi-core architecture is likely to remain despite which instruction set is chosen and the development tools will catch up to give much of the performance benifits automatically. Yes, there is a lot that has to be sort of designed around with modern x86 processors, but these design criteria are a small price for the general expertise and experience that the general purpose computing industry has with the instruction set. The price of switching to a completely new instruction set far outways the benifits (look at the cost just for Apple and its platform partners, and realize they make up an incredibly small chunk of the market). The days of touting the need to kill of x86 are over for now.

Also, despite legacy support, major OS changes are still quite possible. For people who actually know anything about the underlying changes in Vista, they know it was a huge, huge change, with a vast level of code scraped and reworked. The windowing manager was completely changed, for example, and GDI+ was replace by WPF, while still maintianing a high level of compatability. The level of work necessary to do so is tremendous, but it is generally far more useful to the industry as a whole and the consumer, to make large advancements while maintaining existing compatability. What can be done in managed code using thw WPF api is frankly amazinging, most especially in how quickly the code can be written. So large advancement is still possible in this space, and still happening, despite your assertation that x86 and legacy support are dooming the general purpose world to remain mundane.

[montevale @ Oct 8th 2007 6:06PM]

"The price of switching to a completely new instruction set far outways the benifits (look at the cost just for Apple and its platform partners, and realize they make up an incredibly small chunk of the market). The days of touting the need to kill of x86 are over for now."

- Unfortunately this is exactely the point. The infrastracture built around x86 is now so large that it is difficult to expect real breakthrouths and all Operating Systems begin with this constraint. Vista is a very ambitious project that was not taken far enough this is sort of like what win2k was to win98 before it became WinXP.
We are in a predicament where there are more and more cars and all the roads have already mostly been bult. We keep making the cars smaller, smarter, traffic more efficient etc. Yet we already know where further develpment leads to.

[ezraf1 @ Oct 6th 2007 11:00PM]

notice their target isnt Vista or xp hmm I wonder why? Maybe Because That would'nt be too hard to achieve.

[NHAnimator @ Oct 6th 2007 11:02PM]

Yeah. They'd have to do something unheard of - like make it stable.

[lgc90 @ Oct 6th 2007 11:03PM]

Ha, thanks for the laughs.

[GoreTEX @ Oct 6th 2007 11:05PM]

If MacOS ever gets more than 5% of the install base, maybe they would be a worthwhile target. No sense fighting for scraps.

[enzo @ Oct 7th 2007 12:30AM]

Aw but you gotta give it to ol' MS for XP SP2.

[suv4x4 @ Oct 7th 2007 3:32AM]

XP SP2 is stable. And I bet in 2 years Vista will be too (that's purely guesstmation right now though).

What XP SP2 isn't, is inspiration. Windows 95 and 98 was inspiration to people, the way OSX now is.

Amiga also used to grab the minds of people and show them a better way to make a computer and an OS. This is what they're trying to replicate. I'm just afraid none of their old bag of tricks is working anymore. Do they have a new one? We'll learn before the end of 2007.

[Ryan P @ Oct 6th 2007 11:07PM]

It needs to come bundled with Duke Nukem Forever.

[jim @ Oct 6th 2007 11:20PM]

Does it come with a free copy of Vista? Then I can have two OSs I'll never use on one system.

[anthony @ Oct 6th 2007 11:21PM]

an OS called Amiga? no thanks.

[ezraf1 @ Oct 6th 2007 11:22PM]

@GoreTEX well I guess it must be a worthwhile target its been over 6% since march...

PS:before making a stupid comment do some research so at least you know what your talking about.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/03/02/7296

[hikeskool @ Oct 7th 2007 1:01AM]

Love it.

I mean, a 1% difference is huge, after all.

No, you just got pissed when he stated the obvious.

So, according to your data, a little over 9 of 10 computers runs Windows.

There really are few greater things in life than a pissed of apple fanboy.

[ezraf1 @ Oct 7th 2007 1:21AM]

@hikescool: Yes, a 1% difference is pretty big when you are talking percentage of market share in a vast industry such as the computer one, If os x takes over windows its going to be 1% at a time, now macs sold over 30% faster then the PC industry as a whole, Its nothing to scoff at, they are selling more and more macs each quarter beating analyst expectations every time. Another point you should realize before making stupid comments is that we are comparing os x market share which sells only on macs as opposed to windows market share which sells on a number of vendors, so with that if you compare hardware sales apple has risen to the 3rd largest notebook computer manufacturer.

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/05/29/apple-notebook-sales-up-94-in-april/

[momma @ Oct 7th 2007 1:52AM]

@ezref your kidding right? 1% difference, either way apple sucks. it didnt work with ANYTHING when i was in school and sold it to some sucker, then bought a PC. will never go back. besides it not working with anything it's a nice OS but i still like windows based OS's better.

[suv4x4 @ Oct 7th 2007 3:41AM]

1% matters when your market was 5%.

That's 20% increase in market share. If they keep the trend, soon they'll be eating at a much bigger pace.

I would love to see OSX at 15-20% market share total. It will give Microsoft the right motivation to show us the best they can do with Windows, AND will push the industry to support OSX with a wider range of their products. Bottom line, everyone benefit.

Can however Amiga convince anyone to write software for it? According to hints on their site, they have totally different concept of memory and resource allocation and task management in OS5. It's more akin to .NET (the framework by MS) than OS design.

They may think this is great, but it's in fact the thing that will kill Amiga. Not only they won't have any native software to boot with, but this vastly different architecture will make it a totally non-trivial task to port Windows/Linux/OSX code to Amiga! Who will spend all the effort to *rearchitect* their app so it can run on this thing.

Wish them best of luck, and: I hope they have a solid browser (a version of Mozilla is the best they can hope for), since if users of their OS can't even browse the Internet properly, it'll be the one big joke of an OS.

[Jake Howe @ Oct 8th 2007 3:51AM]

Also, (correct me if im wrong) but isnt apple like on of the biggest sellers of computers, i saw a 100 top company thing that ranked only ibm and sony above apple as a hardware seller? people forget its not just an os, its an entire setup hardware and software, that why apples run so nicely, comparable to a top range hp running xp.

so if amiga do release a hardware software bundle, i wish them the best. anyone remeber babylon 5? wasnt that all done on amigas? (please reply if you kno)

[Argot @ Oct 7th 2007 9:14AM]

Let's look at some REAL numbers instead, shall we?

http://www.systemshootouts.org/mac_sales.html

Apple got around 3% of the world market and that is what most reports will tell you. Probably because it's correct.

[ezraf1 @ Oct 7th 2007 12:23PM]

@argot:OK instead of sitting there as a microtard fanboy shooting fake numbers out of your ass, please take a moment and look at the REAL numbers from CREDIBLE sources. Ps: we all have the internet your not fooling anybody with these numbers, all i had to do was type it in google and look for a REAL analyst site.

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/techhardware/10382167.html

[suv4x4 @ Oct 7th 2007 1:22PM]

"Apple got around 3% of the world market and that is what most reports will tell you. Probably because it's correct."

Apple operates in US. Their Mac presence outside US is mostly symbolical. They sell iPods here and there, but that's about it.

So world market is a bad metric.

[Argot @ Oct 7th 2007 1:25PM]

@ezraf1:

Quoting the same Data tracker Net Applications statistics twcie dosen't make any more credible you brainwashed crapple-zombie. Pull your head out of your dear leaders behind and have another glass of his sweet sweet kool-aid.

[Charles Gaba @ Oct 7th 2007 1:50PM]

@ezraf1:

I'm the webmaster for http://www.systemshootouts.org/ , the site that Argot linked to for the Apple market share figures/graphs.

Now, I'm definitely a Mac guy (in fact, most criticism of the site claims that it has a Mac bias), but those numbers are accurate--they represent the REAL WORLD quarterly personal computer sales of the various companies and of the industry as a whole. Apple's sales figures come directly from Apple; the rest of the figures (including the total PCs sold each quarter) come from either IDG or Gartner Group, two of the most respected market research corporations in the world.

The fact is that YES, Mac sales have been on a tear over the past few years, and YES, they are slowly, steadily increasing their market share. However, it's also true that this number is starting from a very low point--around 3% as of last quarter. This isn't a bad thing, however; it just means that they have plenty of potential upside (as opposed to Microsoft, which essentially plateaued after XP came out).

Now, you can certainly argue that Apple's U.S. market share (which is considerably higher) is more important, but that's a different discussion. It depends entirely on the context of the point you're trying to make. In terms of total, overall, global market share, however, they're at around 3% at the moment.

[MacGuru @ Oct 8th 2007 11:25AM]

I'll gladly stay in my 6% virus and spyware free world, the other 94% can enjoy scanning for viruses and spyware all day long!

[person @ Oct 8th 2007 3:35PM]

@ hikeskool:
People like you still don't get it: 1% of users is still a hell of a lot of people! Get that through your head!

[Wink Jr. @ Oct 9th 2007 3:48AM]

@hikeskool - 6% of a multi-billion dollar market? Um, yeah, hate to break it to you, but that's a lot of money. I'd take it in a second. You're the type who'd fall for the trick the company I used to work for pulled: 10-to-1 stock split. Yeah, you're still getting 0.01% of the company if you bust your ass for four years, but 35,000 shares sound a lot better than 3,5000 shares. Stats, probability and percentages are something that every geek and engineer should have down cold but 99.99% don't. I'd take a 6% share of the OS market, esp. if it was MY hardware (Apple) that it came bundled with. 90% of the share when 85% of that is bundled OEM copies on Dell and other machines? Guess what? Bet Apple's margins per employee are 3x Microsoft. MSFT hasn't moved in the stock market for a decade while Apple has gone from $20's to $120. There's reason why: bottom line.

Go take a math class.

[Jake Howe @ Oct 9th 2007 4:06AM]

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/10/08/flashback-10-years-ago-michael-dells-throwdown/

HERE WE GO!

trusty sister site tuaw, has listed some figures regarding what i said before, as you can see apple is quickly becoming one of the biggest computer manufacturers in the world, yeah they only have 6% of the OS market, but they are quite happily beating other big companies like dell. that 6% is looking bigger all the time cant wait for them to beat ibm, kinda payback for supporting m$ all those years ago

[nih @ Oct 6th 2007 11:22PM]

When you take into account the user factor, something with no users is far less annoying than OS X.

[Rob @ Oct 6th 2007 11:25PM]

Back in high school senior I remember writing my school reports on a Commodore 64. Then when I went off to college, I decided to splurge and buy a used Amiga 1000! It seemed way cooler then this new Mac thing with an integrated screen. I can't wait to blow it again and buy another Amiga!

[suv4x4 @ Oct 7th 2007 3:44AM]

Nostalgia is what they keep hitting at, but let me tell you, if this is the best they have in store, they are dead on arrival.

[Xzavier @ Oct 7th 2007 12:23PM]

That is almost like saying OS X was dead on arrival as soon as it was release? Look how long it took Apple to get the public/developers to accept OS X. Somewhere between 10.2-10.4, 3-5 years? A lot of MAC users hated the OS and most refuse to switch over. Apple almost had to force their users to switch by cutting support on OS 9. Also look how long it took Apple to bring their ahem *NeXT* generation OS to the market?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS_X
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_history

Take a look at the history of Microsoft OS's. Some may debate strongly the MS OS dominance did not take off until Win95 and or Win NT 4.0 came around. Until then their was a vibrant OS war going on! Microsoft OS history below.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q32905/

If Amiga is going to produce another OS and if they create some sort of Boot Camp bundle; yea I would look into that OS, especially not only can I install it on a x86 processor and also my PPC processor!

[MacGuru @ Oct 8th 2007 11:40AM]

@ Kuris, @Zargon


Stick with your powerful DOS commands in Vista and leave the real OS's alone.

[siriusfox @ Oct 6th 2007 11:28PM]

I can't wait to see what they have. You'd have to pull out something pretty spectacular to pull me away from OSX. And it'd have to be something so easy to learn that I could pull away from OSX without becoming so ungodly slow, or miss the software I purchased for OSX. I can cope with almost any cost if it is as good as they say.

[coolwubla @ Oct 6th 2007 11:52PM]

I don't understand what this is. Do they sell Amiga computers? Do they plan to? or is the new software for a 20 year old computer? I went to amiga.com and coudn't get these answers.

[m16 @ Oct 6th 2007 11:43PM]

oh no, nothing could ever be better than OSX. [rolles eyes]

[EEaudio08 @ Oct 7th 2007 2:32AM]

rolls* maybe?

[mentalsticks @ Oct 7th 2007 6:08AM]

@EEaudio8: I'm sitting here LMAO at the clever way in which you put m16 down! Priceless!

[MacGuru @ Oct 8th 2007 11:36AM]

Priceless


Windows Vista: $399
Vista PC: $399
Windows Onecare: $49

Scanning for viruses and spyware all day long, (which doesn't slow down your PC at all --ROLL EYES-- )

... PRICELESS.....

[jerry @ Oct 8th 2007 8:20PM]

@Macguru: You keep saying that but it's weird, I never get that stuff and I run WinXP and Ubuntu. Most people with half a brain don't get viruses and spyware. I understand that there are plenty of advantages to OSX but the whole virus/spyware thing gets really old. It's like constantly scoffing at people who buy a manual transmission because they have to push an extra pedal now and then in order to go. It's not that tough and manuals can be cheaper and also fun to drive.

[Leonard Nimrod @ Oct 6th 2007 11:45PM]

I really hope they have something worthwhile but it seems doubtful. Linux has been around for a long time and yet Ubuntu, which wants to emulate the Mac OS X environment at every turn, still lacks Apple's ease of use in every possible way.

With Mac OS X development going back more than a half decade and then going back to earlier roots with NeXT it would be very difficult to create a modern, stable OS with a large userbase that interacts with Windows and Unix in a practically seamless environment (using Leopard as my example here).

This is either a cheap marketing ploy or Amiga developers have simply mimicked the Mac OS X interface without ironing out the details of the underlying OS. EIther way, I wish them the best of luck and hope they can really show us some new innovations in computing.

[zargon @ Oct 7th 2007 12:08AM]

"I really hope they have something worthwhile but it seems doubtful. Linux has been around for a long time and yet Ubuntu, which wants to emulate the Mac OS X environment at every turn, still lacks Apple's ease of use in every possible way."

Have you even used linux or Ubuntu?

I fail to see how it is trying to emulate OS X. Ubuntu is just another linux distro, using software that other linux distros use. They are just trying to make linux and all its software easier to use. This is not a new concept, and nothing that can be claimed as a Apple/OS X idea.

[Leonard Nimrod @ Oct 7th 2007 12:26AM]

@ zargon,

Ubuntu is a Linux distro that is trying to make Linux just as easy to use as Mac OS X made Unix easy to use. I use OS X Leopard as my everyday OS as I'm a developer but I'm very familiar with all version of Windows and many flavors of Linux. I still have high hopes for a more unified version of Ubuntu but unfortunately that goal is still several years away.

[Arochone @ Oct 7th 2007 12:38AM]

Hah. My girlfriend that recently switched from using OSX for 5 years to a Dell with Mandriva would strongly disagree with that statement. She's amazed at how easy it is to find software for it :P
That and the fact that you can do what _you_ want, not what mac wants you to be able to do.
Oh, and did I mention she's a _language_ major. Not comp sci. Ain't exactly a geek.

[zargon @ Oct 7th 2007 12:51AM]

@Leonard Nimrod

So what you are trying to tell me here is this. That the age old idea of making things easier is actually Apple's and because Ubuntu is trying to make linux easier, they want "emulate the Mac OS X environment at every turn?"

I still fail to see how linux or Ubuntu is emulating OS X, especially if your only claim is that both are trying to make using a OS easier. Making things easier to use is not a revolutionary or innovative idea.

To call OS X unix is a sham. OS X uses the mach kernel, which is closest to BSD. That is where the unix linage ends for most users. OS X is a candy coated, bastardized, shadow of the OS that gives it the stability and security so highly touted.

I think it would be better worded to say that OS X is the one that wants to emulate the unix/linux environment at every turn.

[Kurtis @ Oct 7th 2007 1:22AM]

@Leonard Nimrod

Just stop right there. Don't even bother replying. zargon just handed you your ass on a platter and any piss ass rebuttal you attempt to come up with will just put you to further shame.

[The ZeroCorpse @ Oct 7th 2007 12:07AM]

In an alternate universe, on an Earth not unlike our own, the Commodore Amiga is the most commonly used personal computer, and IBM/Microsoft are faded memories. Apple still exists though, and their Newton line is going strong!

[i.c. weiner @ Oct 7th 2007 12:07AM]

what is amiga?