TiVo looks to serve up demographic data to marketers

Don't you dare criticize TiVo's ad collecting / disseminating department for slacking off, as just months after it launched StopWatch to offer up second-by-second viewing data, the company is planning to also hand over demographic information about its customers. The move is certainly likely to shift TiVo into Big Brother's list of most highly-regarded outfits, as the information that will soon be shared with advertisers (we're hearing it may be opt-in only, however) includes "age, income, marital status and ethnicity." There's no telling how much coinage TiVo will be raking in for such detailed data, but at least willing users can now watch intently knowing full well that they're letting it all (and we mean all) hang out.

Update: Turns out this is indeed an opt-in program. Thanks, Jake!

[Via Reuters]

[Tbgame32 @ Nov 8th 2007 11:00AM]

I never get how this ever really bothers anyone?? People are always so concerned about companies collecting data to help advertisers taget customers... how is that bad again?? Everyone is always so concerned about personal privacy... if I could walk into a Best Buy and a chip I had embedded in my head transformed the store into only relevant products for me and hid all the crap I had no interest in, sign me up!!

[Cash @ Nov 8th 2007 2:46PM]

What bothers me is Neilson not taking ratings data taken from Tivo and other PVR's more into account when reporting which shows are popular. You could argue that those numbers don't matter as much due to the very nature of PVR's and their commercial skipping abilities, but I think the increasing presence of in-show adverts as well as product placement are making any sort of viewership (online, torrent, or time-shifted) more and more relevant.

At least more relevant then a select few writing down in a diary their viewing habits, which have a nasty habit of being *nothing* like anyone's I know.Grey's Anatomy and Dancing with the Stars getting three times as many viewers as Chuck? Whatever.

[randy @ Nov 8th 2007 4:13PM]

Here, let me try and explain. Generally, customers accept this kind of intrusive, obnoxious corporate behavior when there is some sort of mutual benefit for both parties, i.e. the customer gets unusually cheap or free service or the ability to use the paid service with cheap third-party hardware (which costs substantially less), while the corporation gets cash flow to cover their overhead or enhance their product or something.

In this case, however, customers are ALREADY paying big bucks for the proprietary TiVO DVR, and then on top of that send even MORE cash to TiVO every month to keep that expensive DVR working with TiVO's proprietary listing service.

True, these loyal people can already get DVR listing subscription services for free from the competition (such as via TitanTV), but TIVO is able to charge so much for their hardware and then for again for their listings because of the thoughtfulness and sophistication of their built-in-in interface, which essentially takes standard listings data and organizes it intelligently with clever menus. Many people greatly enjoy this and gladly pay the money. And of course there are the others who are just bagged after acquiring the proprietary DVR on a brand whim without carefully considering all the other fees.

So TiVO gets two FAT streams of revenue –– cash from their overpriced DVRs, and cash from their overpriced listings service. This should be more than enough to cover what I see as their two costs, TiVO server administration and TiVO GUI development. All the rest --- all the the tens of millions they splurge on marketing, and all the riches and raw profit they sink into their executive pay and bonuses, to hell with it. The party's over, it's time they cut that down.

Therefore, I WILL NOT permit TIVO to profit on my private information and personal identity and viewing habits until one of the two following conditions have been met:

• TiVO allows me to buy a TiVO system then use it with third-party listings services

~OR~

• TiVO freely distributes their software, allows me to install it on ANY DVR I please, and thenceforth asks me subscribe to their monthly service (so the service is a ruse; I'm essentially just leasing their software), or sells the software outright with no additional fees.

[Michael @ Nov 8th 2007 4:06PM]

Personally, I don't mind that much. I'd rather companies and networks get the information and realize what shows people are watching. Many shows don't make it to the Nielsen top 20 or whatever other lists are important to networks and advertisers. This way, they may realize that many shows have a lot more viewers than they expected, simply because people recorded the show and watched it at a later time. If it means saving shows that I like that have faltered in the "ratings," I say it will have been worth it.

[Arthur Nonamiss @ Nov 8th 2007 11:16AM]

As much as I REALLY hate this, I think TiVo is doing what it has to do in order to survive. That up-to-the-second tracking of viewership is worth a fortune. Advertisers can more carefully target to the sucker... er... consumers that they want to attract. I just transferred my lifetime sub to my TiVoHD, so looks like I'm stuck. :s

[John Stracke @ Nov 8th 2007 11:29AM]

MythTV, anybody?

[Louis @ Nov 8th 2007 11:47AM]

And why do they still charge?

[mikus @ Nov 8th 2007 12:00PM]

marketing research is a good thing. I made it a profession, ha

[Frankenstein Black @ Nov 8th 2007 12:33PM]

Hey TiVo you want to collect even more demographic data? How about you knock a few scheckles of the monthly knot for those who "Opt-In"? I’m just saying...

[Rob @ Nov 8th 2007 2:22PM]

I really don't see why people think this is a bad thing - As long as they don't sell my name and personal viewing habits.

Companies want to market stuff to people who will actually buy it. If I have to be subjected to advertisements, I would prefer they actually be relevant to me. It seems like everyone wins here.

[Denver_80203 @ Nov 8th 2007 12:52PM]

I say FINE. Let them have everything but my Name, Address, Phone Number, Credit card.

Whatever it takes to show them the type of shows I like.
Keep them on the air and develop more of of the content I like.

If it shows I stop and watch a certain advertisement because I liked it, great make more of those.
Total privacy does not always work to our advantage.

[BigD145 @ Nov 8th 2007 4:01PM]

Some people watch bad shows in the hopes that it will get better. It falls into the "500 channels and nothing on" syndrome. Morons sit in front of a TV and watch whatever is on or just leave the room for 30 minutes with the TV still on. It's all garbage programming. Selling your demographics will not make it better. It will only make the company more money and that doesn't equate to better content.

Stop sitting back and paying companies to make money off your private information. You are paying them to do this and it sets a precedent that should not be allowed.

[Jake @ Nov 8th 2007 2:40PM]

@ BigD145:

That's absurd. For your interpretation to be accurate, then all shows have to be terrible and not worth watching, or all TV viewers have to be morons. If that's what you believe, then you are simply a troll here, since this post is about Tivo Service, which inherently appeals to people who LIKE WATCHING TV.

If that is not what you believe, then you are discounting the fact that some people genuinely like some of the programming that they watch and want to "support" those shows (like me). I do this by demonstrating to advertisers that I am watching; giving them my demographic data only sweetens the deal (since I'm toward the "affluent end" of the "core demographic"). Advertisers take this information into account when ordering ads, ideally placing ads with the shows that I want to stick around. This fosters network support, which helps to ensure that the shows I like will still be around in a year.

What's not to get about this? This is an OPT-IN service. I give, but I get.

Also, "private information" is one thing. This information is not "private" and is not "personally identifiable." Private data is not my location, income level, household size, whatever. I am more than comfortable allowing Tivo to make money off of non-identifiable information about my use of their product -- after all, I love my Tivo, too, and I want IT to still be around in a year, as well.

Then again, I have nothing in my demographic or use information that I am ashamed of. But then, if I did, I WOULDN'T OPT IN.

[Denver_80203 @ Nov 8th 2007 3:06PM]

I agree with Jake.

I would also suggest to all the people crying "then my service should be FREE" that your service is less expensive due to this practice.

Should all magazines be free because they have ads? no.. you foot some of the bill for the CONTENT of the magazine. Enough people PAY for the content and the magazine can profit more off the ads by showing advertisers that their ads are exposed to more paying customers.

[Ethan @ Nov 8th 2007 1:43PM]

Wonderful. More data for them to misinterpret.

[Mile @ Nov 8th 2007 1:55PM]

Bwahahahaha - Soon everyone will only be watching what I am watching! Bwahahahhaha!

[Arthur Nonamiss @ Nov 8th 2007 2:07PM]

There's also a feature called "pivot search." When you enable the feature, it tells you you need to "opt-in" for it to work. I wonder how many people opted in not realizing what they released from Pandora's box.

[Arthur Nonamiss @ Nov 8th 2007 2:14PM]

Maybe once TiVo realizes I'm a 32 year old male, it'll stop taping Oprah and the Lifetime network.

Or maybe TiVo knows something about me that I don't...

[Denver_80203 @ Nov 8th 2007 3:07PM]

thumbs down the stuff you don't like. tivo will get smarter

[Mile @ Nov 8th 2007 2:25PM]

Bwahahahaha - Soon everyone will only be able to watch the shows that I watch! Bwahahahaha!

[Jake @ Nov 8th 2007 2:45PM]

@ Arthur:

That's not the same "opt-in." Tivo specifically said in their statement to the WSJ that Tivo got these 20K people to sign up by enticing them with a raffle for a free Tivo. That is the Tivo Homes project, which is unrelated to Pivot Search. The "opt out" for pivot search is the normal opt-out that Tivo presumes -- general viewing habits, zip code -- all the stuff that Tivo references in its terms of service. The default setting for that is "out out." But for pivot search to work in conformity with the TOS, you have to opt in to share certain information with Tivo.

That is different than what you commit to share when you "sign up" (it's more active than "opting in") for Tivo Homes. The Tivo Homes info is much more intricate, and involves taking surveys and participating in other forms of market research.

[Reid Sorenson @ Nov 8th 2007 4:16PM]

"The move is certainly likely to shift TiVo into Big Brother's list of most highly-regarded outfits," says the guy who works at AOL. Who, incidentally, owns the most sophisticated behavioral targeting advertising technology on the planet.

But seriously, I don't understand why anyone has objections to being served more relevant ads. You are going to get served ads, via TV, print, the Internet, no matter where you go. These types of research technologies just help to make the ads more relevant for you, and more effective for the advertisers who subsidize all of your entertainment costs. If you don't want ads, go pay $2 an episode at iTunes or Amazon Unbox, and see how quickly your entertainment bills add up!

[Sporkinum @ Nov 8th 2007 8:00PM]

The internet ads have been non-existent for me for years now. I usually kill the sounds when TV ads are on. Magazines/print? you got me there!

I am hoping that when everything is switched over to digital transmission, someone will throw together some sort of linux app that can act as an ad blocker for the video stream. Maybe replace it with that video of a chimp washing a kitten. What will ultimately happen is that more and more ads will be worked into the show's content, as in Steven Colbert's presidential run sponsored by Doritos, Or Mike Rowes plugs for Ford trucks on Dirty Jobs.