http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 30th 2007 10:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
"There's just no reason to make people choose between WMP10 and Zune, especially with Urge dead and gone."

Um, maybe you haven't been updated about this, but there's a WMP 11 out there, you know.

I still find it to be the best media management/playback program, because it:

1) supports a ton of devices and online stores
2) has a beautiful graphical UI
3) supports add-ons ( http://wmplugins.com/ )
4) fully works in the Windows Taskbar
5) has tons of visualizations (look at this! : http://www.istartedsomething.com/20070831/psychedelia-wmp-visualization/ )
6) simple to make playlists
7) many media playback enhancement (Now Playing > Enhancements > Show Enhancements)

I can go on and on. But it's #1 in my head. Far better than iTunes, and just marginally better than ZMP.

Now if only Microsoft could combine the fluid UI of ZMP, and the graphical beauty of WMP 11.

That would be the ULTIMATE media program.]]>Nov 18th 2007 8:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 10:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/But...
For managing music...
I think Amarok is the best (IMO Hands-down) music player... the only real downside to it is that it's Linux-BSD-Solaris (any of those non-proprietary OSS's, or OSX with an X11 Layer) only...
Amarok may not support as many stores... but, it will support ANY player (cept' the Zune of course), some with a little work... but it gets it done.
So... yeah...
A matter of opinion... but, Amarok is in alot of opinion THE killer-app when it comes to music playing.
GR]]>Nov 19th 2007 12:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 19th 2007 12:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
Vote me down, but it's true.]]>Nov 19th 2007 1:32AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
If you don't even care at all about Zune, why'd you bother commenting?

And yes, while the Zune is dumbed down in features, I find it very much easier to find music, sync music, and do what I need to do.

For everything else, there's WMP 11. If only MS could just put those two together.

Compare both to iTunes, and they win. Seriously, iTunes is by far a really junky player. It amazes me that Apple made that hideous thing.

And while there are complaints, there are obviously praises about the software. A quick new release could fix a few problems in no time.

So does Apple pay you to troll around on Zune sites and bring up the worst, or what? Because that's really sad.]]>Nov 19th 2007 3:24AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/- zmp1.x was good at organising your music library, but horrible at synching
- zmp2 is good at searching / playing / synching, but useless for organising / tag editing. It also lost the ability to create custom/dynamic playlists - which was a big loss for a lot of zune users.
- overall the experience of using my zune30 is a lot nicer and streamlined now than it was before, i'd say it's up there with itunes.
- because of the lack of id3 tag editing, a separate app is needed to edit tags. I'm using Helium (www.helium-music-manager.com) to manage, as it actually saves tags back to the mp3s, which some other players do not (ahem)
- zmp2 also lost the ability to transcode music to wma when synching, so i now use db power amp to transcode to wma10 pro (which the zune supports natively, zmp1 used to use wma9 iirc).

if ms can up their game with zmp2, and give us regular updates, bringing back some of the features from zmp1, i think we will all be happy puppies, but as it is the totally re-writen zmp is a good starting point.]]>Nov 19th 2007 4:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
Apple actually didn't create iTunes, at least not initially. They bought "SoundJam MP" from "Cassady & Greene" and have been building upon that base. Myself, I like iTunes quite a bit, though certainly have some quibles with it too. I should also note that I run it on a Mac, so perhaps it works better on the Mac than it does in Windows.]]>Nov 19th 2007 8:53AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 3:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 3:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/For better or for worse, they're out there to make money...

"Does anyone think Microsoft would've bothered with Zune if Apple included WMA playback in iPods?"
I don't think it would have made much difference at all, really. Barely anyone uses it, and even if they threw support onto the ipod very few people would care. WMA may be decent, but there are really better alternatives. MP3 is the widest spread, and if you want the best sound quality to file size there are better options there too.]]>Nov 18th 2007 4:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
Why would you hope against the Zune doing well? If you don't like it you could at least hope for it to have an influence on the iPod's pricing. And why shouldn't Microsoft make the Xbox, it's incredibly successful. All we can hope for is that the Zune is as successful in the PMP market as the Xbox is in the console market.]]>Nov 18th 2007 4:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
By what standard do you consider the Xbox "incredibly successful"? Because from a business perspective (you know, that whole "making money" thing) the Xbox is one of the biggest failures in the digital world. Aside of a quarter or two, it has been nothing but a financial black hole that MS have pumped billions in and have yet to make any money on.

Popular (mostly) among the people using it? Oh yes, very successful at that. But as a business model, the whole Xbox operation is a $5 billion dollar failure thus far…

(not to say I disagree with the general point that competition for the iPod is a good thing. It is, no matter who it comes from)]]>Nov 18th 2007 8:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
I don't think anything you said made any sense. Period.]]>Nov 18th 2007 7:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
They are failing with the Xbox 360? I think you are mistaken. Maybe you are just thinking of the RRoD, but that has not, in the least slowed their sales. The 360 has a huge sales lead on the PS3 overall and *since* the PS3 has launched. If the 360 was not there, gamers would have just a choice between a PS3 and a Wii... how in the world would that be good? The NPD gives a clear picture of console sales that you cannot dispute.

Your hardware/software grumbling is just nonsense. Why would Microsoft enter as a competitor in the PC manufacturing business when it is essentially a partner with virtually almost every PC manufacturer? The same goes with the mobile platform.

They don't have any major partners in the portable media or gaming industries that could mount a serious run at taking the market share. The last console to have anything MS based in it was the Dreamcast. There are a few pmp's that run Windows software but none that can pose a threat to the iPod. MS felt, in both markets, to make a run at it they had to enter themselves. It makes complete sense if they want to expand their business (and why wouldn't they) that they will have to start developing some hardware.

@farukates

The Xbox is one of the biggest failures in digital electronics history? If you are really going to argue profitability look at the competition. Sony is bleeding a lot more $$ on the PS3. The Wii is profitable, but the technology is essentially the same as a Gamecube with motion sensing. That isn't a knock on the Wii, but it is the honest truth.

The 360 has become profitable, and with the exception of the 1 billion dollar write-off, (which doesn't mean they actually spent it), the product has been very strong in sales all year. The entertainment division, which includes the 360 and the Zune, has gone green and is projected to continue to do so. They are beginning to make money on the hardware in addition to software and Xbox Live. Will you next say that Xbox Live is one of the biggest failures as well?

I have no problem with anyone disliking MS or the Zune; I do however, have a problem with stupid people.

Now as far as the review goes, pretty solid. The complaints here are the same as I have. These are mistakes that can be corrected with firmware updates, and I hope MS gets the memo.

]]>Nov 19th 2007 12:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 3:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 4:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
Zune 80 battery life:
30 Hours Music
4 Hours Video

I'm guessing the larger screen drains the battery.]]>Nov 18th 2007 7:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
I have owned many iPods and I'm often frustrated at how easily they crap out (usual life span is about a year in my hands) and therefore am seriously interested in moving into a Zune (or "other") player. But with the literally thousands of dollars I've spent on music, tv shows, movies, and videos, at iTunes I'm not sure that i can ever leave apple. The price of their players is trivial to how much they have me indebted to the service. Maybe someday when the Social and Xbox Live are synced and I can port over my tv and movie purchased to a Zune, it will be worth the switch. ]]>Nov 19th 2007 1:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
Just switch to another player. The Apple DRM is simple to bypass. It'll take time to convert all the files, but you won't be under their thumb anymore, and that's the important part, right?]]>Nov 19th 2007 12:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 3:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 4:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 4:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
Maybe he had another iPod before the iPhone. Or maybe he needed more space.]]>Nov 18th 2007 6:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
"Maybe he had another iPod before the iPhone. Or maybe he needed more space."

Phew, thanks! Maybe I can finally get some sleep tonight knowing there was some kind of logical explanation for owning both Apple products!

]]>Nov 19th 2007 1:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 3:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 7:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 7:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 3:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 11:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
It's some of the niceities that Apple would never put in because they may add .001 inches to the iPod or give the user some control over it [gasp!].

All I'm saying is, for the Zune 80 to get an 8.3 while the iPod Classic only got an 8 on CNet is definitely saying something, and while you're right that the Zune is missing some critical features, I think it deserves a little more credit.]]>Nov 18th 2007 3:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
i still disagree with your comparison to the touch.... they are two different products.
]]>Nov 18th 2007 5:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
When reading the first review, I really thought you had a touched a Zune 80.... this review is a more balanced, so thats something...

also tracks that are not in the Marketplace do not show up on your Zune card...]]>Nov 18th 2007 6:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
If this should be compared to any iPod, it should be the Second gen. I know it's 5 years since that but think about it, the second gen iPod was more compatible, added better software and a slightly better UI and added a touch sensitive navigation pad. Sound familiar?

Microsoft have taken the exact same idea with the Zune 2.0. Everyone seems to forget that this is only their second PMP, and their first flash based PMP. Yet it already has some advantages over the iPod Classic & Nano, so I say give it a chance, and hope enough people buy it to make Apple scared and maybe even add some of the Zune's features to the iPod's

As the guy above me said, stop comparing with the iPod touch, because they are very, very different, and the iPod touch makes it look a lot worse that it is.How is it fair to say that this should have functions that the Touch and Archos 605 have, when it is meant to rival the iPod Classic & players similar to that?]]>Nov 18th 2007 6:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
some things to add:
- zune 80 comes with premium earbuds.
- new zune UI option to "go to artist" when you center click while a songs is playing. This is helpful if you are shuffling 5000 tracks and you want to switch gears quickly.

some things I disagree with:
- the competitors have to "pull out all the stops" to beat apple. you make it sound like the other devices are lacking in features. if you look at brands like iriver, sandisk, and meizu thats not the case (you even hinted at this). what apple has is a 7 year head start and killer advertising. so pulling out all the stops will really only involve time and advertising by a company (which is what MSFT is doing).
- ~video and audio breakout is annoying~. you are nitpicking.
- the zune social site works fine in firefox. music samples and all.
- zune software uploaded plays to the social site with no problems. i have a feeling you made very little effort to troubleshoot once you found it didnt work.

thats all for me. others will critique.]]>Nov 18th 2007 7:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 9:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 11:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 3:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
go to Zune.net.]]>Nov 18th 2007 4:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 3:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 4:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/the sound is pretty much what you'd expect from a pmp- and largely depends on the quality of your media along with the headphones you are using.

]]>Nov 18th 2007 5:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
That was a pathetic analysis of sound quality. I think he's interested in how well the equalizer works... which is probably better than the iPod.]]>Nov 18th 2007 5:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 6:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
i thought the EQ was removed in the new Zunes. or are you making a joke and i just dont see it?]]>Nov 18th 2007 8:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
Anyhow, my 30 upgraded to 2.2 still has presets. Unless the equalizers were a hardware thing, it's in there.

And trust me, they make a HUGE difference, at least with the Zune. When I first upgraded the firmware, the equalizer was set to none. Once I went looking for it and changed, it, there was a noticeable difference (for the better IMO).

I still get the feeling this line of PMPs is being reviewed against what the reviewer thinks they should be, not what they claim to be. That's unfortunate, and will turn a lot of people off from what is really a great device.]]>Nov 19th 2007 9:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 19th 2007 12:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/Nov 18th 2007 3:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/18/new-zune-review-part-2-upgrade-hardware-software-and-social/
It would auto sync every time I plugged it in, even with autosync disabled.
I couldn't change basic things.
And the general laggyness was horrible... A bonus of the new marketplace being v2 only is that it doesn't slow the old software now.]]>Nov 18th 2007 4:14PM