http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/ Engadget Comments for DOT bans checked, loose lithium batteries on flights http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 3:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
When attached to a device or placed inside a non-conductive plastic bag the batteries are protected from accidental short circuit during the flight.]]>Dec 28th 2007 3:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
I think it more boils down to more government ass-covering by means of regulations, so if something does, someday take a plane down, they can say "we did everything we could!". Better to inconvenience billions of passengers instead...

As Corp. Hudson once said, "I feel safer already!"]]>Dec 29th 2007 1:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 3:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
Whether or not there is any technical basis for the new restrictions and regulations, I believe that these changes are designed to make it look like the TSA/Dept. of Homeland Security are doing more...which is enough to convince plenty of idiots that the work they're doing is successful and/or worthwhile. In other words, it's a Spectacle...performance art designed to lie...you know, propaganda.

Either that, or the next US megaweapon will be powered by free, confiscated batteries. Maybe the administration is planning to drunk-dial Ahmadinejad on New Years, just to goad him into war.]]>Dec 28th 2007 4:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
And yes, there have been fires caused by them, or believed to be caused by them. The major issue is the fact that the fire suppression systems in planes are not able to deal with lithium based fires. ]]>Dec 28th 2007 4:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
And even when I check a bag, stuff disappears too easily (my wife and I have both been victim of theft of items, luggage mishandling and deliberate damage) and there's no guarantee your bag makes it to your destination.

This is just getting ridiculous :/]]>Dec 28th 2007 4:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 29th 2007 12:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 29th 2007 1:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:23PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.dot.gov/affairs/phmsa1107.htm
The FAA is involved with the TSA see their comments. My last line was a comment dircted at "organizations" which really means the FAA as a whole. The FAA has a leadership role in ALL aircraft safety issues. So my question is why they (FAA) address the relatively recent individual consumer battery "problem" B4 other larger problems which HAVE taken planes out of the sky. Remeber the Long ISland accident some years ago. It's considered a case of a fuel tank exploding.]]>Dec 28th 2007 4:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 5:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
If the batteries are most prone to explosion when they're in the laptops (or charging as in the case of cell-phones), then the new regulations would do nothing to prevent them from blowing up on a passenger's lap within the cabin of an airplane. So how is this a good regulation?

And I did not say or imply it was a ban...but the government is choosing to manage this risk in the wrong way. If a plastic bag per battery eliminates the risk, why not just require all spare batteries to be individually wrapped and not limit the number of batteries people can bring? It would take no longer for a checkpoint officer to look at each battery that a passenger brings and allow them through if wrapped in plastic, than to see them all and then bar the passenger from bringing his/her third-or-more spare battery through.

Just because I question the logic of this policy does not mean I disagree with smart policies to protect us. It's just that this one goes too far, or at least in the wrong directions. And between the Patriot Act, Katrina, political rhetoric, and the general mismanagement and bungling of the Dept. of Homeland Security, I have to say that a general disapproval of the DHS is far from misguided. This is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue either...I just want a country that is run as openly as possible by people who are there to govern and serve the public from a truly moral standpoint, rather than like rats vying for power, money, career advancement, nepotism, and stratification of public opinion. Just look at the Blackwater Christmas card...oh, WWJD?!? http://www.boingboing.net/2007/12/28/blackwater-wishes-yo.html]]>Dec 28th 2007 4:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 4:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 5:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
DOT itself, within their page linked above, says:
"(...) The rule limits individuals to bringing only two extended-life spare rechargeable lithium batteries."

This very much targets rechargable Li-Ion batteries.

Alsp, the writeup here missed the subtlety that the plastic-bag workaround works ONLY in carry-on luggage; can't have them in a baggy in your checked luggage, apparently.]]>Dec 28th 2007 6:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
This is gonna get fun.....]]>Dec 28th 2007 6:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 28th 2007 6:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
Everyone should read the actual DOT press release and get better information. As I read it, the loose batteries have to be packed into your carry-on, max at 2. So that limits your total batteries (assuming one is on your electronic devise) to 3. Not cool.]]>Dec 28th 2007 8:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 29th 2007 1:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
Everyone should read the actual DOT press release and get better information. As I read it, the loose batteries have to be packed into your carry-on, max at 2. So that limits your total batteries (assuming one is on your electronic devise) to 3. Not cool.]]>Dec 28th 2007 8:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
As a photographer, I have two 1 series Canon bodies each with 2 Lion batteries, the photo tank with 2 extra batteries and one installed, the laptop with the extra extended battery, the mp3 player with built in lion battery, the cell phone with 2 extra extended batteries etc. The flash units use NiMh and I have literally 32 nimh batteries and 8-at a time rapid charger.

I NEED all this stuff when I travel. Now TSA is going to shit a brick over my pile of batteries?

The problem is, you cannot always mail stuff ahead and KNOW you will have it, like with carry on. UPS can decide not to deliver your package to the hotel on time, the Hotel can lose/steal it, you don't have the stuff after you mail it off, and have a huge hassle of trying to get it and re-pack your bags once you arrive, then find another box and mail the shit back again.

What I really want is a courier service I can have pick my packed bags, all of them, up from my office on my schedule, right before I leave for the airport. I then want them to box them up and ship them same-day as-fast-as-fucking-possible to where I am flying, then have someone run them to me at the car rental terminal at the airport, and then the reverse when I fly back.

That's the only real way to know I can fly in and that afternoon go shoot.]]>Dec 28th 2007 10:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 29th 2007 1:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
I don't have time to go track down a package that I shipped the night before or hope I have some address that if can be shipped to.

This whole thing seems like such BS since most reports of Li-on batteries that I have read noted that it happened while the batteries were IN a laptop or were being charged (or even just sitting there attached to a power source)...someone made a good point that the contacts may touch, so just mandate that they be individually enclosed in a plastic bag.

As for our neo-cons that are here to defend the incompetence of this administration and it's cronies (and their desire to make government NOT function so they can drown it in a bath tub), then go back and read the report that Ian referenced...here is a snipet:

"The National Transportation Safety Board said evidence is conclusive that the explosion originated in the Boeing 747's center wing tank -- a 13,000-gallon capacity tank that was holding only 50 gallons at the time."

There is a need for public safety and finding logical solutions with input from the public is important, but the public's input hasn't even been sought on this...

Heck of a job Brownie...]]>Dec 29th 2007 12:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
Okay, not really. I can't believe this has actually become a big enough problem that they had to make a rule about it.

@Russell: I like the idea of the courier service. It could be called Contraband, Inc.]]>Dec 29th 2007 12:09AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
So as I photographer who needs his batteries I am now supposed to either:

a: Buy more batteries wherever I travel (and throw them out when I'm done, cause I can't bring them home) greatly contributing to the environmental damage already caused by batteries.

b: Ship my batteries ahead of me (again greatly contributing to pollution and environmental damage)


This just makes me sick, I hate to say it, but I hope all of the idiots who came up with this idea are killed in a Li-on plane fire, they deserve it.

Just gives me one more reason not to travel through the god-awful country called the US of A.

And we all know that 4 batteries are much more likely to cause a fire than 3, thats just common sense afterall...]]>Dec 29th 2007 12:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
As a professional photog who flies about 20+ times a year, this is going to be a huge PIA for me and my colleagues.]]>Dec 29th 2007 12:43AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
The gist of it seems to be that:

- LiON batteries kept in the devices for which they're meant is ok.
- LiON batteries not inside their devices should be either in the original packaging (like that's going to happen), in a baggie or have their terminals taped over.
- LiON batteries not in their devices cannot be packed into checked in luggage (although batteries INSIDE their devices can be).

Now, where it gets uncertain. The PHSMA alert is the ONLY place I can find any mention of the two battery limit.

The TSA website's page on lithium batteries lists all the same info - except a restriction on the number you can carry on.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/batteries.shtm

However, I think this is the actual restriction:

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

The following quantity limits apply to both your spare and installed batteries. The limits are expressed in grams of “equivalent lithium content.” 8 grams of equivalent lithium content is approximately 100 watt-hours. 25 grams is approximately 300 watt-hours:

Under the new rules, you can bring batteries with up to 8-gram equivalent lithium content. All lithium ion batteries in cell phones are below 8 gram equivalent lithium content. Nearly all laptop computers also are below this quantity threshold.

You can also bring up to two spare batteries with an aggregate equivalent lithium content of up to 25 grams, in addition to any batteries that fall below the 8-gram threshold. Examples of two types of lithium ion batteries with equivalent lithium content over 8 grams but below 25 are shown below.

For a lithium metal battery, whether installed in a device or carried as a spare, the limit on lithium content is 2 grams of lithium metal per battery.
Almost all consumer-type lithium metal batteries are below 2 grams of lithium metal. But if you are unsure, contact the manufacturer!

I read this as 'you can carry on as many small LiON batteries as you want as along as they're in a baggie or taped, but if you're going to bring BIG batteries - like a battery brick or slate - then you're limited to two with a total of 25g of lithium'.
]]>Dec 29th 2007 1:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
That means that for the vast majority of people, other than sticking your spares in separate baggies or taping the contacts, which is a good idea anyway, this rule doesn't really change anything.]]>Dec 29th 2007 1:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
Re. the Long Island flight, associates of mine were called in to the TWA 800 crash investigation to examine debris for evidence of explosive detonation. One of them stood in my offfice and described the fuel tank damage. It was not exploded by high explosives, rather, it was explosively ruptured as if by ignition of fuel vapor. On the web, there is so much conspiracy theory stuff that it's hard to get the facts, but the tank was heated by some devices (AC units?) underneath it that operate when the plane is on the ground, and wires for the fuel gage penetrate the tank. A spark from these wires is suspected. This type of accident is on the list of Most Wanted NTSB transportation safety improvements [ http://www.ntsb.gov/recs/mostwanted/aviation_issues.htm] but fires from any cause are not listed. Note that cigarette lighters were banned from flights for awhile, then re allowed - "authorities found that a ban on the devices did little to make flying safer", the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) said. I suggest someone develop and market a special plastic box that is certified to prevent shorts, way better than a plastic bag, and then we can take our high performance batteries and fly safely.]]>Dec 29th 2007 10:25AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 29th 2007 12:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/
And why haven't Flamin' Hot Asteroids Cheetos been banned too? The diarrhea they cause is also highly explosive.

Sorry to any ultranationalists, but this is just more more BS security theatre.]]>Dec 29th 2007 3:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/Dec 29th 2007 7:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/28/dot-bans-checked-loose-lithium-batteries-on-flights/http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2006/PhiladelphiaPA/iic_opening_text.htm
http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/15/ntsb-looks-to-laptop-batteries-as-possible-cause-of-plane-fire/
Please drop the TWA Flight 800 crap. If you knew what you where talking about, you would know it is way to difficult (expensive and heavy) to inert a jets fuel tanks. Besides considering the risk, one airplane vs. multple instnaces(if you read the NTSB report) ]]>Dec 31st 2007 1:08PM