http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/



lol it's true what they [don't] say about Linux users... they are a fusion of stereotypical PC and Mac users... eww... He's like "I'm a nerd and like doing accounting BUT I AM COOL, LOOK AT MY FUNKY POSE, YO!"]]>Feb 5th 2008 3:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
I'm betting not.]]>Feb 5th 2008 3:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
In the immortal words of Janet Jackson, "What have you done for me lately?"

Sincerely (kiss my ass),
A Former Linux User

Really, people. Doesn't this sound a lot like Edison taking a crap all over Tesla? I work in science and engineering, and all of this is just Linus's inner 12-year-old coming out. He's lonely and needs a cookie. So, he's slinging cheese whiz at the smart cute kid.

Gian]]>Feb 5th 2008 3:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 4:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
- OS X and Vistas added complexity forces upgrades. But so does newer versions of window enviroments for Linux also that contain the same functionallity. But Linux users have a choice.
- HFS came out in 1986, HFS+ in ca 1998. We could do with a makeover or support a new file system. ext3, zfs etc would be wonderful.
- What linux does with OLPC, Eeee and so forth is great, linux on mobile devices are great. green is great, less poweruse is great.

So I welcome Linux on desktops and mobile devices with high hopes. But that doesn't make me want a macbook pro with os x any less. ]]>Feb 5th 2008 6:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 6th 2008 6:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
Oh wait . . . that's a lapel mic. Never mind.]]>Feb 5th 2008 2:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
I thought he was pulling off the america sandwitch (you know, canadian tuxedo with a mexiacan tie... you don't call those things that? really? whatever...)

On Topic:

Just another article dealing with both Finland and Crap... you're on a roll today.

I don't think there is much to be said by apple except "have you looked at NTFS Lately?"]]>Feb 5th 2008 2:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 4:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 4:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
And no, the glasses don't hide them. Sorry bud.]]>Feb 5th 2008 6:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Linus_Torvalds.jpeg]]>Feb 5th 2008 7:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 7:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
Speaking of Jobs, that reminds me...let us not forget what the basis for Apple's entire computing platform (OS X) resides on. If it weren't for LT, I doubt the terms Mac Head, Apple fanboy, or any other variation of the two would exist. ]]>Feb 5th 2008 7:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 9th 2008 9:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/255 chars), etc.

Most of these features wouldn't be missed by regular users, but they come in handy for sys admins and some developers.]]>Feb 5th 2008 3:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
Actually, NTFS has all those things, and more.]]>Feb 5th 2008 4:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
He's not infallible, but he's usually pretty on the ball. This time I think he's dead right.]]>Feb 5th 2008 4:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
Now I get paid to deal with Linux systems, and I use a Mac desktop at home and at work because I don't want to have to fiddle with my desktop system to make stuff work, I want to be able to use commercial software, and I want easy access to remote Windows *and* Unix systems.

Linux and Windows require too much fiddling, Linux doesn't support all of the software and media types I want to use, and Windows is too much of a pain to admin Unix systems from.

I think Linus has been seeing a lot of engineers who feel the same way I do since OS X matured in the 2002 timeframe.]]>Feb 5th 2008 4:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
I missed one point from the earlier post, though--it doesn't support filenames greater than 255 characters (strictly file names, not absolute path length). Hopefully you can name your file in less than that. ;) If you're in the habit of creating abstracts for your files, consider putting it in one of the metadata fields instead....]]>Feb 5th 2008 5:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
Just to ask, if HFS+ didn't support hard links, how would Mac OS X even work on it? On UNIX, egrep, fgrep and grep are all hard links to each other, amongst plenty of other examples.

I don't think HFS+ supports more than 255 character filenames. But those are 255 unicode characters, which is quite a lot.]]>Feb 6th 2008 2:43AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
This is the thread - http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/git/2008/1/23/592628
]]>Feb 6th 2008 7:28AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
I only say this because I want to emphasize that I'm a Mac fan and am not going to bash OS X because I like some other system more. No, I would sooner lose an arm than have to use another system day in day out.

That said, Linus is right. He's no doubt referring to a thread on the Git mailing list about how HFS mangles filenames and the incredible amount of pain that causes people that care about the *exact* name of a file. The issue is that HFS silently normalizes Unicode filenames.

So (to give a contrived example that may not actually be the case, but will at least illustrate the issue) say you create a file named "Mädchen" after your favorite Twin Peaks actress. OS X may instead actually create the file with a name of "Mӓdchen".

To us mere mortals those look identical, but to the computer they're different. That's a Bad Thing if you're doing anything that involves cryptographically verifying data, and that data includes filenames.


]]>Feb 6th 2008 1:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
It has hard links. I use them regularily. TimeMachine even has hardlinks for directories, which I think is unique to HFS (at least very uncommon).

FileVault feature of OS X encrypts home directory. Dunno if it's on filesystem level, but it's encrypted on disk and transparent to applications, which is good enough for me (granted, NTFS per-file encryption and compression is better).
]]>Feb 6th 2008 2:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
Linux is such a hodge-podge of a system I'm amazed that he would have the testicuar fortitude to make a claim against the most widely used *NIX in the world. Apple has been able to do something that GNU and Linux have not, created a *NIX for everyone and is cheap.

The OSX file system is like all other *NIX systems starting at '/' and working its way down, just because Apple does something differently than what you want, does not make it "utter crap".

TEG ]]>Feb 5th 2008 2:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp]]>Feb 5th 2008 2:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
Not to flame-bait, but OSX is NOT based on Linux. It is based on a variation of Free BSD. Totally different origins, similar vision.]]>Feb 5th 2008 3:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 3:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 3:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
OS X would be nothing with out open source.]]>Feb 5th 2008 3:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/]]>Feb 5th 2008 4:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 4:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
What is Darwin then?]]>Feb 5th 2008 4:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
"What is Darwin then?"

A joke! Just another dime a dozen distro to choose from with limited support. Darwin is just the core frame work of a OS, you would be better off with FreeBSD if you wanted to stick with BSD or Debian, Slackware, SuSE, Gentoo, etc... All of which have much better support and are more refined.

There is no point in running Darwin unless you are looking to do development. Other than that, like I pointed out, there are much better solutions for a complete open source OS package.]]>Feb 5th 2008 4:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/
"A joke!"

I think the point he was trying to make was that Darwin and Webkit are projects that give back to the community. That's the code. Someone, take it and do something. Who cares that it's not as supported. Almost no opensource software is supported. If you mean a supporting community, then I'm pretty sure Apple can't make people use the code that they release to the public. ]]>Feb 5th 2008 6:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 2:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 4:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Feb 5th 2008 4:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/linus-torvalds-calls-apples-file-system-utter-crap/Here you go: http://www.jltate.com/pictures/linus.jpg]]>Feb 5th 2008 4:27PM