Are "Opus" and "Valhalla" the next, next Xbox 360s?

Although word on the street is that Microsoft is planning to release the successor to the Xbox 360 in 2010, the company is still apparently planning on updating the 360 design several more times in the next couple years. Just like the "Falcon" motherboard now on shelves updated the original 360 design with a 65nm CPU, the upcoming "Jasper" revision should take the GPU to 65nm as well -- but that's more or less common knowledge. What we're hearing now is that all those RRoDed 360s sitting in warehouses are going to be retrofitted with the same 65 / 90nm CPU / GPU combo as Falcon, but on a mobo design called "Opus" that fits the original Xbox case molds. That means no HDMI, since pre-Falcon cases didn't have the openings -- but apparently MS is only planning on sending these out as warranty replacements. The real action, however, appears to be "Valhalla," a supposed final rev of the 360 that integrates the GPU and CPU into a single "superchip." Details on that are more than sketchy, and we're definitely skeptical -- especially since we'd been hearing chatter about 45nm CPUs, but nothing about a unified architecture. We'll see when we see -- as long as all these boxes play CoD4, we'll be happy.

[Carbonize @ Feb 15th 2008 3:46PM]

At the time of the 360's release the cost of the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray hardware would of almost doubled the cost of the units. I for one am glad they didn't put one in there. Also by not picking a side they have left themselves open to use both sides. I am sure we will soon see a Blu-Ray drive for the 360.

[Nick @ Feb 15th 2008 3:37PM]

An effort to outsell the PS3 again..?

[Ian Armstrong @ Feb 15th 2008 5:11PM]

Effort to outsell? Yeah, that's the business world. Honestly though - let's look at how the game played out so far. Microsoft sucker-punched Sony and they took the bait hard. Let's review.

1. MS wanted to take out at least a 20% market share on their next generation box, the 360.
2. So they leveraged their PC hardware contacts and built the best system they could manufacture based on current technology.
3. Sony, never one to be outdone on a hardware platform, went and built something so advanced it couldn't even be reliably manufactured for the first two years. This meant they were selling $2000 hardware for $600 and being crapped on by consumers for price-gouging. Not an enviable position to be in.

The result? Nintendo pulled a ninja miracle by betting on the wii and XBox 360 has ridden high for 18 months now as the top-end enthusiast system; problems be damned.

Now MS is cruising on easy-upgrades and yeah, PS3 still has the better hardware. No one is going to pretend an octacore system doesn't just destroy the 360's performance. Then again, if we're talking 2010, then we're talking about 38nm octacore. Intel has been showing them off already at trade shows and they scream.

So MS is doing what it's good at - sustaining technology upgrades - while developing the next generation systems for 2010. The whole competition will come down to who can get the best price to performance ratio: Intel or IBM.

It should be fun to watch.

[Rususeruru @ Feb 15th 2008 5:22PM]

An effort to reduce manufacturing and refurb costs. The current Falcon chipset is much more reliable, these 16% failure rates we are still hearing about are the older chipsets still overheating.

[ScoobyDoo @ Feb 15th 2008 5:24PM]

If the PS3 hardware is so much better for at least playing games, how come none of the games look any better than the 360's? In fact, most of the multiplatform games look better on the 360. Having a monster CPU doesn't necesarily translate to a better gaming system. There's a lot more to it than that.

[Rususeruru @ Feb 15th 2008 5:26PM]

The cell as designed is an octocore system but as utilized in the PS3 it is only a 7 core system. While the cell is a great multimedia chip, it's usefulness for actual game play and RAM pooling issues mean we have yet to see how much potential the system has from a graphics standpoint
btw the 360 is running three cores that each process 2 threads per core thus making the 360 virtually a 6 core system.

[Rususeruru @ Feb 15th 2008 7:09PM]

Alright getting technical, One PPE and 8 SPE with 1 SPE disabled to increase production yield. The thing is the PPE in the Cell's architecture primary purpose is to coordinate the SPEs.

[Abuzar @ Feb 15th 2008 7:23PM]

You're good dude, I was talking to Ian.


"No one is going to pretend an octacore system doesn't just destroy the 360's performance."

Ian, 90 percent of the time the PS3 does NOT outperform the Xbox 360 in the CPU department, so your statement just went to hell.

Not to mention the fact the the Xbox 360 already uses a better GPU...

[Silverfrog @ Feb 15th 2008 8:19PM]

@ Scoobydoo

"If the PS3 hardware is so much better for at least playing games, how come none of the games look any better than the 360's? "

If you believe that, you haven't seen a PS3 in action. Heavenly Sword & Gran Turismo 5: Prologue beg to differ. If you can't tell those two games look better than anything on the 360, you're in denial.

[Ian Armstrong @ Feb 19th 2008 1:42PM]

Geez, testy. I'm actually a Microsoft fan for lots of reasons that don't belong in this thread.

Thank you for correcting my mis-understanding. I haven't read a white paper on the cell chip in several years. My point had more to do with MS strategy to make Sony over-extend (brilliant) than with the finer technical details of the chip. If I wanted to be a bastard I'd say something about technical vs executive job skills here but I'm also feeling charitable.

My apologies for getting the technical details of the cell chip a little off.

[System48 @ Feb 15th 2008 3:37PM]

Surely it'll be COD5 by the time Valhalla hits.

[Carbonize @ Feb 15th 2008 3:49PM]

Ok that was in reply to another post that it looks like Nilay Patel has gone and deleted. So the stupid blog system has slapped it here. The post I was replying to was -

"bob sakamano @ Feb 15th 2008 3:38PM

If they would have bitten the bullet and put HD DVD standard in xbox 360s all the news would be different today.

although i prefer blu-ray!"

God knows why they deleted it.

[Nilay Patel @ Feb 15th 2008 3:52PM]

I didn't delete anything -- no idea what happened there.

[phanbouy @ Feb 15th 2008 4:03PM]

bob had the first post before me in the HD DVD deathwatch that got pac-manned up too

[Carbonize @ Feb 15th 2008 4:37PM]

My apologies then Nilay but it was weird that the comment was there and by the time I had replied it had gone.

[Kunikos @ Feb 15th 2008 5:22PM]

The comment system on Weblogs, Inc sites blows hard.

[Dennis Kristensen @ Feb 15th 2008 3:49PM]

Couldn't have said it bette: As long as my 360 plays CoD4 !!! :-D

And forget CoD 5 - not gonna be made by Infinity Ward - wait for CoD6 ;-) (History tells it's usually that way)

[Erwos @ Feb 15th 2008 3:56PM]

Too bad - I was hoping to get an HDMI replacement. Still, the MadCatz HDMI adapter should fulfill my (non-DVD-upscaling, non-HD-DVD) needs in a pinch.

[darkstar @ Feb 15th 2008 4:05PM]

im gonna name my kid "Valhalla."
but somebody please tell me if thats a girl or boy name before its too late!

[Mike @ Feb 15th 2008 4:29PM]

Boy.

[Zeus.:God @ Feb 15th 2008 4:38PM]

Neither. It's the heaven of vikings.

[teej @ Feb 15th 2008 6:35PM]

throw Bjornson in there while you're at it

[aardvark sandwich @ Feb 15th 2008 4:13PM]

Does Valhalla come with Nordost Valhalla power chords (!)

[Perry @ Feb 15th 2008 4:16PM]

It doesn't make it a 'unified architecture' if both chips are on one die. They will still be distinct with some form of interconnect on the chip.

It only means that it will be cheaper to produce. Less silicon and fewer traces on the mobo. That could result ina 30-40% size reduction - or maybe PSU in case.

[Allen @ Feb 15th 2008 4:34PM]

its already outselling PS3 until this last month, so Microsoft is probably not worried about a unified architecture.

That will probably come in 2010, and Jasper will be the codename for an all new Xbox. Seriously, the PS3 hardware is far more expansive than the Xbox 360, so the Xbox team needs new hardware to bring its power up to PS3 capability or beyond. Otherwise, the Xbox will eventually be shelved. For the first five years of the HD era in gaming the current 360 will be fine, I doubt that anything even fully utilizes its hardware yet (much less the PS3), but PS3 hardware is good for much longer and has much more power than the Xbox 360 still.

[Jeff Foster @ Feb 15th 2008 8:26PM]

"Although word on the street is that Microsoft is planning to release the successor to the Xbox 360 in 2010"

is there a difference between "word on the street" and "an analyst making sh*t up"?

[AJ in the East Bay @ Feb 16th 2008 3:22AM]

+1

Don't you just get tired of rumors making headlines?

[dnadeau @ May 8th 2008 12:56PM]

Actually J Allard said that the 360 was designed to have about a 5 year "life span." Which would the next Xbox at around 2010

[DJ TJ @ Feb 15th 2008 6:38PM]

Can't wait until they start sending out the 65nm CPU's with the warranty replacements. My 360's broken down 3 times with the RROD. One time it broke down 10 minutes after I received it back from microsoft.

Also, maybe they could replace the lead-free solder that's causing the RROD as well?

[robert @ Feb 15th 2008 6:45PM]

well these counsels really are not that advanced when you compare that the xbox 360 cpu has about 165 million transistors, ps3 has about 200 million and Intel is currently selling 800 million transistor quad cores for the desktop with 2 billion transistor chips on the way

[Peter R. @ Feb 15th 2008 10:56PM]

I really want a Xbox 360, but I'm a logical guy, and logic goes against me buying a $300 plus product that's prone to system failures time and time again. I don't really care WTH they do with the 360's innards, as long as they fix the RROD issue. Then and only then will they be getting my monies.

[AJ in the East Bay @ Feb 16th 2008 3:24AM]

The failure rate is why I don't have a 360. I can definitely wait for what their next console has to offer, be it 2010, 2011 or 2012. The Nintendo Wii keeps me entertained just fine, thank you, SD graphics and all.

[maximus @ Feb 18th 2008 11:34AM]

I'm suprised nobodies mentioned anything about it being called Valhalla like the Halo 3 map, spose everyone on here just takes that for granted already. They should really call it Crossfire in honor of Cod4.

[yoyodude64 @ Feb 20th 2008 6:15PM]

damn i was gonna mention it sounded like a halo map but i got beat to it. but for real how did noone pick up on that?

[Pete @ May 13th 2008 8:55AM]

I think people did realize it was a Halo 3 map but instead chose to talk about something more useful... or seemingly useful... or... I give up. We're dumb.