http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/ Engadget Comments for Telecom immunity for domestic spying dies on House floor http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 2:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 2:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 2:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
but the got the prosecution shit down fo'shizzle]]>Feb 15th 2008 2:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 11:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 2:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 2:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 2:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
....I know that cyanide smells like almonds....mmmmm......almonds....]]>Feb 15th 2008 3:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 4:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/]]>Feb 15th 2008 4:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
]]>Feb 15th 2008 9:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/https://www.eff.org/cases/att

I think this lawsuit may be the reason the immunity rider was slipped onto the new FISA bill in the first place.]]>Feb 15th 2008 12:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 2:43AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
Recommended reading:
1984
Fahrenheit 451

Also watch Equilibrium]]>Feb 15th 2008 3:19AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
Give someone an inch and they will take a mile

That about sums it up. Thanks...]]>Feb 15th 2008 3:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 3:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 4:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
"Think about what we’ve been hearing from the White House in this debate. The President has said that American lives will be sacrificed if Congress does not change FISA. But he has also said that he will veto any FISA bill that does not grant retroactive immunity. No immunity, no new FISA bill. So if we take the President at his word, he is willing to let Americans die to protect the phone companies."

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ark9HpmuZLKkKNJRvLgXvjTsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20080214174818AAj4U9T

]]>Feb 15th 2008 4:09AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
The problem with removing immunity from FISA is that it effectively cuts all future cooperation from the telecom industry with related intelligence operations because the government will have turned their backs on them.

The government will have allowed them to have been sued for actions... that were taken on the request of the government.]]>Feb 15th 2008 4:38AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
Anyway, it's not about the government asking for it and them giving it, with the assumption that they were going to file the paperwork. It's the fact that they let the feds do this 100s or 100s of times without asking for any of the required documents. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Fool me 1000 times and I deserve everything I get.]]>Feb 15th 2008 5:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/The government can easily ask for legitimate permission if there is legitimate reason to tap.
The whole thing is caused by AT&T allowing the NSA to place a splitter that taps EVERYTHING from EVERY SINGLE PERSON in america, or communicating with or through it.
]]>Feb 15th 2008 5:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 5:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/A little more incendiary that I might have put it, but I still agree whole heartedly.]]>Feb 15th 2008 4:14AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 5:14AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/I'll be a thought-criminal in no time.
No, people stop paying attention, and they trust their freedoms to bullish fear-mongers.
Then, for their safety, they haven't got any freedoms.]]>Feb 15th 2008 5:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either.
Benjamin Franklin
]]>Feb 15th 2008 6:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 6:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment IX:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Also, this isn't about whether or not the government is allowed to wiretap; that's not the point. We know that the government wiretaps frequently. The point of the matter is that now the government wants to PROHIBIT ITS OWN CITIZENS FROM LITIGATION against telecom companies if there is a violation of our rights.

Keep in mind that a few years ago, we were debating on whether the government should even allow warrantless wiretaps under the PATRIOT act renewal. Now we're debating whether or not citizens should even seek retribution if they feel that their rights have been violated. Little by little, Bush has eaten away at the judicial branch, and the balance of power is extremely out of whack. The slippery slope/snowball effect theories are holding true, and it's quite scary.]]>Feb 15th 2008 7:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 7:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 7:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Considering the fact that the telephone did not exist back in the 18th century, the essence of the amendment has been interpreted as the right to privacy - if the government cannot look at your private papers without a warrant, it should not be able to listen in on your phone calls (wiretapping) without a warrant.

The act in question states that the government does not need a warrant to have a wiretap on Americans if the government suspects such citizens as being involved in acts of terrorism - making the 4th amendment useless. Nobody should trust their government to do anything like this according to the law - there will most definitely always be some agent of the government who will hide under the terrorism clause.

Live free, or die - and I will once again quote Ben Franklin - "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." and ask people to read Fahrenheit 451 and read 1984.]]>Feb 15th 2008 8:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
Do you really think anyone in the gov't actually gives a crap about you and your life? Seriously are you so full of yourself that you think anyone at all at any level of government really truly wants to know anything about you?

Having witnessed first-hand some law-enforcement people recognize a possible threat, I can tell you they aren't just wandering around randomly searching for your secret porn collection. They have much bigger fish to fry than a bunch of college libs who hang out on Engadget.]]>Feb 15th 2008 8:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
What is it about children that makes them think Dick Cheney is so interested in them?

I find that that rather egotistical.]]>Feb 15th 2008 8:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

-Martin Niemöller]]>Feb 15th 2008 9:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 10:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
"Privacy is the right to be alone--the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by civilized man."
Louis D. Brandeis

"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
John Perry Barlow]]>Feb 15th 2008 10:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

Good of you to mis-represent his other quote though.]]>Feb 15th 2008 8:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
The people who whine the loudest about this are more than likely the ones who don't want the rest of us to learn that they like pictures of little boys or that they like to burn live animals.

It always comes down to this- if it was to save someone you loved, would you still want it stopped? There is no other question.

There was oversight and no Democrat has ever asserted otherwise.

You guys who own this blog would do well to avoid this kind of topic. It's so polarizing and it gives too much voice to the intellectually impaired.]]>Feb 15th 2008 8:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
You just don't get it do you!?

Freedom > safety!

When did you ever hear, "Give me safety or give me death!"?

When did you ever hear someone declair how much they'd be willing to die for their safety?

When did you ever hear the revolutin shout, "We will be safe!"?

Freedom has risk embedded by nature. When people are aloud to do what they want, safety is lessened. You cannot provide safety without control.

By contrast to increase safety, you must increase your control and lessen what the public is about to do.

Our people are stating that they don't like what they'd have to give up to be "safe". We certainly don't like the direction this is going.

Safety is not garanteeable so there are only 2 reasons to tout it for a reason to give up freedom:

1. You're scared

2. You want control over someone that is scared.

Safety CANNOT be garanteed without complete control and a complete loss of ALL choice.

So why not just garantee our freedoms instead and let us deal with the risks?]]>Feb 15th 2008 3:07PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 8:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
So we ought to abolish the FDA, the FAA, the NTSB? Want your drinking water safe? How about your food?

Why do we have any laws whatsoever? Why don't we let you take all the risks and really be free?

You're not REALLY free if you have to respect laws, are you?]]>Feb 17th 2008 2:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
Take it from someone pulled over by the cops for robbing a bank ( I did not I only looked like him white, with two arms, two legs, hair and teeth)
They neglected to check the tool was already in lockup.
Anyway I can see this happening to any home born American regardless of race, creed, color. Even if you are innocent.]]>Feb 16th 2008 2:00AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/I'll be a thought-criminal in no time.
No, people stop paying attention, and they trust their freedoms to bullish fear-mongers.
Then, for their safety, they haven't got any freedoms."

Who?

Name one!

What freedoms have you lost? You most certainly have not lost the right to make stupid statements, have you?]]>Feb 15th 2008 8:53AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
]]>Feb 15th 2008 9:14AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
You can't name one.

We really were attacked on 9-11 and you children think Bush is your enemy, but you can't name a single person wronged by Bush. He's running out of time in office. When does the fascism start?

As for thought crimes, they do exist. They're called hate crimes, and they were the invention of liberals.

Quoting Teddie Kennedy vis-a-vis personal rights is hilarious. Ask Mary Jo Kopechne. (Oh that's right. You can't. She's dead.)

There have been people wrongly interned in this country. During WWII a Democrat President interned a lot of Japanese. After 9-11 Bush sought to shield innocent Muslims from wrongful response.

And you guys hate him for it.]]>Feb 15th 2008 9:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/Feb 15th 2008 10:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
Gitmo is a place, not a name of a person. Name someone there wrongly incarcerated. One detainee released from there went on the blow up the Islamabad Marriott, killing a lot of people.

This is what you people seek to protect.

And those in Gitmo are not protected by the Geneva Convention.
]]>Feb 15th 2008 10:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
I can't name a Jew killed in the holocaust. Does that mean none of them did?]]>Feb 15th 2008 10:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/telecoms-immunity-for-domestic-spying-dies-on-house-floor/
I can.

But yours is an intellectually bereft argument. You make assertions, then you ought to be able to support them with facts, and facts are scarce around here. There's lots of emotion but little in the way of fact.

Good grief- we're all on the brink of losing our freedoms but you can't find a single person in the US who has lost any rights. Bush is going Nazi but he's running out of time to do it. When does the fascism start?

It's more fascist to make allegations like those seen here that have no merit.]]>Feb 15th 2008 10:36AM