http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/ Engadget Comments for German state after $92 million in subsidies, interest from Nokia http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2009 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 5:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 6:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/
Germans complain that their economy is inflexible. No joking?!

Come'on my European friends. No jobs are eventually lost. They are just shipped to Romania. This *is* the idea of EU. Right?]]>Mar 11th 2008 6:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/
Nokia, pay the subsidies back, and make it easy for yourself, as for interest on top, tell them to step.]]>Mar 11th 2008 5:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 6:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 6:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 6:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 6:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 6:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/
We thought ahead and asked them to bring FTTH. They said "oh we need tax breaks and the ability to collect more money so we can fund this super-expensive project." We said "sure, fibre is expensive and digging up ground is expensive". Then they took that money and gave bonuses to their C*Os and maybe their investors.

DSL, Cable, FDDI/FTTC/FTTH is all BS. Everything should be at least 100Mb today and us looking to have 1Gb+ in a few years.]]>Mar 11th 2008 6:07PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/
The Yahoo article just says the Germans are claiming that since 2002 Nokia hasn't created the minimum number of permanent employees required by the subsidy agreement. How many is that? And how many jobs did Nokia create? It'd be interesting to know what the difference is...1% or 25%. Or if there are any differences at all, and it's all about interpretation of what "permanent" means. Or something like that.]]>Mar 11th 2008 6:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Ok, the Germans want the money back but that doesn't mean that Nokia are bound to repay it - Nokia could, for all we know, have kept to every term of the contract, in which case the Germans are moaning about nothing.

Anyway, it's not like they got burned that badly - plenty of local governments shell out huge amounts of money to attract businesses with zero return.
Where I live in Scotland, a huge factory was built for Hyundai as an incentive for them to move into the area and, after it was built, they turned round and said no. As far as I know, the factory has never been used an Hyundai have never contributed a penny.]]>Mar 11th 2008 6:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/what happens here is the same in so many countries, and yes , including US.
to attract corporations, and investments (investments that will be done anyway), and in order to create local jobs, many countries in teh world provide grants.
these grants are bound to requirements:
example can be that you get a tax exmption for 10 years, a land rental for free for 10 years, if you invest these and create 1000 jobs, 80% local hireesin the first 2 years and keep these 10 years.
gvts are not inflexible, and market conditions understood to be impacting on these numbers, thus flexibility.
however, at a time when the corporation announces a huge profit,it decides to close the factory, before the terms agred upon. which means the money received (in cash or subsidies, read the tax rebate...) are kind of "stolen" as the other side of the bargain is not kept, and this without economical reasons.
read the green card procedure for new investors in US, and the requirements, or the grants requirements for investing in Alaska. almost all countries do so.

on the legal ground, and I am not a legal expert, even though in this case, there might not have been a written bound, rulings are left to the judges. a part of Nokia's last year benefits might have been a direct result of the fact that they needed not invest the money they got from Germany. they could, I think, feel lucky germany is only asking for the money given, instead of estimating the worldwide investments by nokia, the share Germany financed, and take that percentage of Nokias profits.

more or less, a relation can be made in the marital stauses: even without being married, or married under contract for separation of wealth, one partner can overrule this contract or no-contract with a judgement on the fact that by helping in the personal life (cooking, cleaning...) it participated in the wealth generation and has right to a share of it.

last but not least, the bounding with requirements, even if not wirteen and signed, is the standard for Gvt subsidies to a company's investment throughout the world, nokia cannot default for lack of knowledge on a mainstream and widely common procedure.

PS: not for you fuzzball, why is everybody still comparing economically germany to US, or UK to US, or france.
each EU country should be compared to a US state.or ALL EU to ALL USA.
then the comparison pales: export, population, market capitalisation.... the difference is then really blurred. EU is at least economically a union of countries, as much as USA is a union of states (which is equivalent here)]]>Mar 11th 2008 11:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/
And, no, the US should not be compared to the EU as a whole.
The US is made up of a number of states, the EU is made up of a number of countries, each of whom are made up of a number of states/areas/regions etc.]]>Mar 12th 2008 6:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/
If I give you decide to buy a car and in order to do so, I give you $3000. A week later your car is totalled, I don't ask for my $3000 back.

Same goes here, an investment (subsidy or otherwise) is a risk, a gamble. ]]>Mar 11th 2008 6:17PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 6:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 6:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 6:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Germany was once had the laws you speak of , however these days only a select few have any job protection at all.The large majority of workers here get paid a pitance.
1 euro per hour common.A hair dresser for example, takes home 800 euros for 160 hours work.This is a country where it often pays more not to work than it does to work.
Its become a cheep labor , sweat shop , with awful laws working against the worker and for firms.Im sure people outside of germany have a great opinion on what they perceive to be a country that looks after its workers.Unfortunatly this dillusion is about 10 years out of date and the new Germany has no interest at all in protecting anyone that they dont need to.]]>Mar 11th 2008 7:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 12th 2008 2:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 7:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/
Stupid Nokia!]]>Mar 11th 2008 7:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/
Nokia tries to argue that they actually DID create that many jobs, but their counting methods are rather strange: They count cheap workers they hired from agencies for temporary work, and they also count newly created jobs in other firms (like outsourced cleaning services). I guess in the end a judge will have to decide whether Nokia's or the state's way of counting is correct, but I strongly expect Nokia to lose.]]>Mar 11th 2008 7:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,540699,00.html]]>Mar 11th 2008 7:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 8:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/
Unless it is specifically defined in another manner, then Nokia's case is pretty strong - after all, the cleaning jobs, etc would not have existed had the plant not been built, therefore Nokia's presence created those jobs.
Just because they had to create a certain number of jobs, that doesn't necessarily mean that they had to directly employ that number of people - unless, as I say, that's how it's defined in the contract.


@Nikster: because it's $92 million.
No matter how big a company you are, you don't just let go of that much money without a fight.]]>Mar 11th 2008 8:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/
Of course there's always the possibility that the state was stupid enough to propose a contract that does not make that clear, so that Nokia might wiggle out.]]>Mar 12th 2008 3:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Personally, I can't imagine Nokia would be stupid enough to try and leave before they could pocket the money but we'll see.]]>Mar 12th 2008 6:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 7:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 10:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 12th 2008 7:00AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 11th 2008 11:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 12th 2008 12:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 12th 2008 3:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Mar 12th 2008 10:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/
And it's getting better:

Nokia's turnover in Germany sunk since their plans to move to Romania.
2 of 3 (!!!) Nokia customers refuse to buy a new Nokia phone.
2 of 3... that's much but imho not much enough!
This removal isn't expensive enough yet!!!

Hey NOKIA: sale your §$%&ing phones in Romania!!!
]]>Mar 12th 2008 7:00AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/Happen to be german?]]>Mar 12th 2008 10:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/german-state-after-92-million-in-subsidies-interest-from-nokia/http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,540699,00.html]]>Mar 13th 2008 4:41AM