FCC's broadband over power lines expansion hits major snag

If you're waiting for broadband over power lines (BPL) as an alternative to cable or DSL in your area, it may be time to finally give in to one of the big companies. The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) -- a group of amateur radio enthusiasts -- has sued the FCC over its plan to speed up BPL's expansion, citing concerns that the service's radio emissions provide too many interference risks to the hobby / ham spectrum. While the FCC conducted a favorable study on BPL's potential problems, their published report had so many redacted sections that the ARRL wants to know what they missed. A D.C. district court agrees with the League, and plans for further rollout have been tabled until the FCC can come up with more facts.

[peacebyanymeans (AKA: Moorio) @ Apr 28th 2008 8:48PM]

No. No, you didn't.

[Skorpius @ Apr 28th 2008 8:56PM]

Get on Skype you trucker wannabe's! :-p

[Jeff Haynes @ Apr 28th 2008 9:10PM]

Seriously, what's with people wanting to hold on to one of the last non-computer technical hobbies? Can't they get with the program and just watch reality TV like everyone else? People always need to "enrich" their lives and "explore science" and "not give away spectrum to stupid power line broadband ideas". I mean, come one.

[rektide @ Apr 28th 2008 9:16PM]

The wireless technologies you take for granted all came to being on amateur bands. Its the only part of the spectrum designated for people to play with, and as such its where all the cool stuff you take for granted gets built. Theres a lot of Software Defined Radio stuff getting pioneered by the Hams now that one day you'll be using to send HDTV signals wirelessly. Just because YOU dont have the desire or want to play with open radio spectrum doesnt mean you dont benefit from it.

[Dustin @ Apr 28th 2008 9:16PM]

I myself am a Ham radio licencee, ARRL member, and Do have a problem with BPL. It causes quite a bit of interference with all radio communication.

@Skorpius - You might want to thank Ham Radio Operators, they are the ones that invented the original WIFI protocols and are the ones that are going to help save your ass if there is ever a natural disaster, weather, or an attack on the country.

[dziban303 @ Apr 28th 2008 9:22PM]

I don't know if it fucks up amateur bands or not. Either way, I just wanted to comment. KE7DCZ

[Jordan @ Apr 28th 2008 9:55PM]

Ham FTW

[Jeff Haynes @ Apr 28th 2008 10:39PM]

Yeah, that was sarcasm guys. Look into it.

[Reader @ Apr 29th 2008 12:01AM]

I've heard of this sarcasm thing. I actually know it quite well. My analysis is that you fail at it.

[Kurian @ Apr 29th 2008 4:31AM]

You're not gonna be inventing anything more because everything has basically already been invented in some form or the other and only billion dollar companies can afford to research and make it usable anyway.

[xeon @ Apr 29th 2008 9:15AM]

The guy that invented cable television was a ham radio operator.

[ARHB @ Apr 29th 2008 9:01PM]

Don't post your callsign unless you want me to know where you live, Doug......

If you give me a callsign, I can find out (in less than a minute if I have a decent internet connection) the name, and address registered with the FCC for that callsign. Think before you post.

[Nick @ Apr 28th 2008 9:09PM]

Awesome! I'm glad the ARRL is looking out for us.

More on ARRL and their concern for the effects of BPL on Amateur radio (and other services) here: http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/

[Richard @ Apr 29th 2008 10:06AM]

Skorpius, you seem to have a stereotyped image of CB (Citizen's Band) radio, which is -not- the same thing. Ham radio operators play a significant communications role in natural disasters and emergencies, often when other means are not available or disabled. Start at www.arrl.org to learn more.

[rektide @ Apr 28th 2008 9:12PM]

GOD BLESS THE DC COURTS.

[Adam @ Apr 28th 2008 9:17PM]

To be fair, the ARRL has stated that it would have no problem whatsoever with BPL that does not cause RF interference, but the FCC continually seems to support shoddy BPL technology that interferes broadly across the radio spectrum, not just with amateur frequencies (there are many many more services out there that use the frequencies in question, not just hams).

[dick @ Apr 28th 2008 9:36PM]

Add to the BPL nonsense the influence the White House had in forcing it's appointed FCC head to get it approved in the first place. At least the Court's will force the FCC to produce believeable results. None of their original data stands muster when viewed against independent testing.

Another long time ham operator...

[brad @ Apr 28th 2008 9:36PM]

I've been using BPL for two years in cicinnati and it works great... You can plug an Ethernet adapter into any outlet in your house which is great for when you have a device that doesn't have wifi capabilities.

[DSL_Dave @ Apr 28th 2008 11:09PM]

ARRL isnt that negative about all BPL technologies:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2006/03/22/1/

[Aguiluz @ Apr 28th 2008 9:37PM]

SCREW THE FCC. They are too paranoid and hinder progress.

[Derek @ Apr 28th 2008 9:45PM]

You're a menace to society!

Had to say it.

[Justin Kates @ Apr 28th 2008 9:47PM]

ARRL did good on this one, people are finally starting to see that the FCC is being a bit to sketchy when submitting these reports. Wonder why? Maybe some lobbyist funds in the pockets of the commission members?

[Stem $ell @ Apr 28th 2008 9:48PM]

Shoddy BPL doesn't just interfere with ham spectrum, it spiral slices it....

[David G. @ Apr 28th 2008 9:55PM]

When it comes to HF and the lower ranges of VHF, you are completely correct.

73 de KL1TN

[JT @ Apr 28th 2008 9:59PM]

Hey all you Ham doubters. How would you like to be stuck somewhere away from home, wondering if your family/children were alive or dead after a tsunami hit your town on the coast? Would you feel helpless if there were absolutely no cell service, landline service, and you couldn't get home because landslides were blocking ALL roads home? This happened a couple years ago on the Oregon coast.

Ham operators (I'm not one) stepped up and worked tirelessly round the clock helping families on the coast call their loved ones who were away from home, desperately wanting a status. These guys were heroes.

Wait-let me put it in your terms. How would you like it if you couldn't play Warcraft on your PC for a couple of weeks, and Ham operators helped emergency crews and FEMA get your PC powered up again.........?

[letstakeawalk @ Apr 28th 2008 10:10PM]

Crysis during a crisis? Sweet...

[Brendan @ Apr 29th 2008 3:32AM]

No land line service, no cellular service, no internet. So what your saying is most likely no electricity from power lines to cause interference to ham radios in those areas.

Blocking me from getting out of my Telco/Comcast hell by not allowing a third true(beside satellite broadband) isp into my area is an asshole move.

[Richard @ Apr 30th 2008 1:04PM]

@Brendan

You're missing the point.
So when the power's out, sure, the HF signal works.
But what about the people LISTENING for those signals in areas that aren't hit with the outages? THEY CAN'T HEAR THEM TRANSMITTING!

The FCC rules are clear: the BPL providers can NOT interfere with primary users of spectrum. Period.

The BPL providers are doing that. But because of the huge amount of lobbying done by these people (remember, $ talks in Washington), the FCC is letting them skate.

Another point: okay, so it works when the power's out. Would you invest money into a technology you could only use then? I sure wouldn't.

[superpotential @ Apr 28th 2008 10:05PM]

who the heck uses a "ham" radio these days? if i recall those are those gigantic wooden boxes with these pointy springy 5-foot antennas sticking out.

all you "amateur radio" enthusiasts: get a life, cell phones, satellite XM radio, and 2-mile compact walkie-talkies that can actually fit in your pocket is where it's at now.

"10-4 ssssssssssssssh psssssssh *beep beep* psssssssh 10-4 got that roger" .... sheesh. i hope they lose the lawsuit.

[ZeroCorpse @ Apr 28th 2008 10:09PM]

Give up the Ham! Let the Ham go! Give up the Ham! Peace and lovin' brother! Give up the Ham!

[Keaton @ Apr 28th 2008 10:23PM]

Last! oh wait never mind...

[Reader @ Apr 29th 2008 12:03AM]

Nice... flower....

[MeatyPi @ Apr 28th 2008 10:26PM]

Just took a steamy dump!



Had to say it!

[Dr Buzz0 @ Apr 28th 2008 10:29PM]

It's not just ham radio. BPL is a horrible idea that interferes with damn near everything. The phone company uses twisted pair copper cables to deliver DSL and they are limited in speed. The cable company uses coax to deliver a lot more data (not just internet, but TV and multiple data channels for multiple customers). They use coax. The inner wire carries the signal and the outer is a shield.

The power companies want to pump broadband data through old aluminum wires that carry electricity. Zero shielding. It's not just bad for ham radio but mass deployed it leaks RF energy all over the place. Wireless cameras, AM radio, FM radio, television, cordless phones and potentially wifi could be affected

The reason it's more of a concern to hams is that HF radio is more likely to be effected than higher frequencies. However, for AM radio, HF radio used by Ham and world shortwave service, BPL could wipe out the whole chunk of the spectrum. This can also effect emergency communications.

BPL is a bad bad bad idea.

[Funke, Tobias Dr. @ Apr 28th 2008 10:30PM]

Your malady: you are ignorant.
Your cure:
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-ICF-SW7600GR-Shortwave-Receiver-Reception/dp/B00006IS4X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1209436105&sr=8-1

[Rusty @ Apr 28th 2008 10:47PM]

I hope you "screw amateur radio" types have never been in an emergency
situation cut off from the outside world (think hurricane, tornado, ice storm).
Because, when every other form of communications stops working, and most usually do when a disaster happens, it's the VOLUNTEER ham radio
operators that provide valuable communications. Also, any of you who live
in areas prone to tornado's, ham weather spotters spot a lot more bad weather than radar.
So, the next time you see one of those cars/trucks with a zillion antennas,
give them a thumbs up.

73's
KB0GNK

[Mark @ Apr 28th 2008 10:52PM]

BPL is a damned good idea..and here's why...

It has the potential to give high-speed internet access to everyone who has electricity. (pretty much, everybody except the amish). The Cable or DSL providers won't make the lines to reach the more rural areas, they all claim "There's no money in it. And Wireless internet access has too many problems and it can't compete even with DSL.

I say to Ham-radio operators: Stop fucking with progression. Ham-Radio is old and is slowly being taken over by practically every other form of wireless communication. Why should the people living in rural areas have snail-speed internet access because you want to use your old tech? Get with the times.

This is pretty much would be like the companies which built buggies, along with the people who built horses, were suing Ford Moters back in the early 1900's because the advent of "horseless carriages" were now making them go out of business.

[S Portis @ Apr 29th 2008 12:02AM]

KE4RUJ !!

[henrikcarbonnier @ Apr 29th 2008 8:04AM]

I like your analogy as I am actually a horse builder myself. Could I interest you in one with five and a half legs?

[mike @ Apr 28th 2008 11:30PM]

No doubt BPL is a good idea... it's a great idea! Of course just because it's a great idea, doesn't mean it's a good technology. Any "good idea" must be evaluated. The fact of the matter is, that while BPL looks good on paper, it causes massive amounts of RF interference. Just because the ARRL is the only group raising a stink, doesn't mean that BPL interference doesn't effect you. BPL can interfere with aircraft communications, public service communications, and all sorts of wireless technologies you live with every day. So just because we are not HAM's (or at least some of us aren't) let's not just accept RF interference as being acceptable. It simply is not.

[Privacy Advocate @ May 10th 2008 7:02PM]

BPL is a bad idea. Why take a long wire that is basically an excellent antenna and then pump MORE RF noise on it?

Radio remains one of the only mediums you can obtain information from w/out being connected and while this may not seem important now, it is the only way to obtain information privately.

It's also one of the few remaining mediums you don't have to pay for. I suppose you want people who can't afford internet or cable access to remain in the dark?

Oh, and need I mention, we have treaties with other nations not to jam their signals. Oh well...

With all the political turmoil and encroachment into your private lives brought about by things like homeland security, I should think more people would be grateful that SW exists. It still has potential to bring you news you may not get on CNN. (albeit biased news and a little "crazy" sometimes)

Aside from the practical uses, do you really think they can't come up with something better than this clunky BPL solution?

One answer is to use dish transmissions into a larger tower. Less interference and you can still cover large areas.

I live on a remote site too, with very little choices in terms of internet access. I'm one of the people who would be helped by BPL and you know what? NO THANKS!

[ajfarson @ Apr 28th 2008 11:00PM]

To spite the blatant ignorance that permeates this post, our lives would be much more difficult without HAM's. The national whether service relies on them as early warning system for dangerous storms. other emergency services utilize them as well to report traffic incidents and other emergencies. The fire department does too... When the crap hits the fan, and cell towers go down, and ISP's and landlines go down, it will be the HAM's and emergency services organizations that will keep the community going until things get back to normal.

Our relentless technological advancement must be put in check and insure that staple technologies that make this world work.

[JMS @ Apr 28th 2008 11:15PM]

Can't they all just make the switch over to Satellite Phones?

[mike @ Apr 29th 2008 3:59PM]

Yeah, because Satellite Phones work great in severe weather, allow communication with multiple people at the same time, are low cost even in third world countries, and can handle massive amounts of simultaneous users a disaster requires. Oh... yeah, no.

[Josh Warner @ Apr 28th 2008 11:05PM]

@ 'super'potential

BPL is a huge problem for shortwave radio. The power lines in our country would become the largest antenna system ever created if this is implemented. The BPL signals must be extremely intense to make it to the end of the line, as power lines were designed to transmit _power_, not delicate signals. It's a god awful mess.

Ham operators can tell if their neighbor is using a HomePlug system or something similar, and (to borrow a Douglas Adams turn of phrase) that's peanuts to a large scale BPL roll-out. The FCC has ceased to be meaningful if they let this go through; it 'interferes' so badly it should have been tossed out long ago. Every redaction should be brought into public view, and the FCC should be ashamed they even considered BPL. If passed, this would be about as bad as the ISO passing OOXML to the FCC.

The US does need a way to get broadband to the more remote locales, but this is not the way to go about it. WiMAX / related tech, designed from the ground up for that purpose, is. Either that or calling the phone companies on the carpet for the infrastructure upgrades/expansions that the taxpayers paid for, but never happened.

[Raja @ Apr 28th 2008 11:09PM]

HAM operators were the the first to alert the Indian administration of the massive tsunami of December 2004 that swept through Southeast Asia, when the Indian islands of Andaman and Nicobar were also affected. Every other modern form of communication to the islands had been lost. The operators had arrived on the islands just two weeks before the tsunami.

As a gesture of gratitude towards the HAM community, India financed the construction and launch of HAMSAT (AMSAT - VO52), which is still in operation.

[Jeffrey @ Apr 28th 2008 11:19PM]

As was pointed out, BPL destroys many radio services other than the Amateur Radio spectrum. It ruins public safety and commercial services. They have other law suits where the co-complainant is a TV station. ...so it's not JUST hams complaining.

The strange thing is that the FCC is violating their own procedures. It is supposed to be protecting the licensed radio waves from interference. Instead it wants to wave the corporate flag for BAD technology. The ARRL supports and has worked with Motorola on GOOD BPL technology.

[David @ Apr 28th 2008 11:26PM]

@Mark: Nice idea, but wrong.

One of the things that you don't hear from the BPL companies is that you can't just hook up the Internet to one end of a hundred mile long stretch of power line and expect that everyone from the beginning to the end of that point will have Internet. Repeaters are required every few miles (might even be more frequent than that), and those devices aren't particularly cheap. Who is going to pay for that infrastructure? Do you want your electric bill going up to subsidize the one guy who lives at the end of a 12 mile stretch of road? Is that same guy going to pick up the costs all by himself?

The ARRL isn't anti-BPL, they are anti-BAD BPL. In fact, there are systems that effectively notch out interference to not only the ham radio band (and yes, I am a ham, K2DBK), but also do not interfere with public safety and military frequencies, among others.

You don't want to buy the point that the public service work that hams volunteer to do is important? Ok, fine. How about when your local fire department can't call back to dispatch to send more help because the VHF-Lo band has become useless due to BPL interference. Sure hope it's not your house that's burning when that happens.

What the ARRL objects to is the FCC not only making bad rules, but then even ignoring those rules themselves. This particular issue is only one of the things that's been a problem with the governments blind push to get BPL deployed. Those hams who live in areas where BPL has been deployed have repeatedly filed well-documented complaints about the interference that BPL causes that the FCC has chosen to not even bother to respond to.

The issue here is that BPL is simply not an effective technology. There are other methods available to provide high-speed broadband, but for whatever reason, the FCC has effectively "chosen" BPL as it's baby, and has attempted to push it's adoption, regardless of the technical consequences.

[white_ultras @ Apr 28th 2008 11:35PM]

@Paid Comcast bashers
@Paid HAM shils
@Paid cell phone intustry minions

FUCK YOU

Broadband over power lines is unstoppable now!!

[Tyson @ Apr 29th 2008 1:16AM]

I am not sure what you actually meant by that can you be a little more clear next time? thanks cheers