AMD's quad-core Phenom processors face compatibility issues

There's all the makings of a class-A debacle over at AMD headquarters, as it turns out that the chip maker's quad-core Phenom processors are incompatible with some popular motherboard chipsets. Due to a thermal frequency mismatch, the 125-watt 9750 and 9850 CPUs don't play well with 780G-based mobos -- which are designed for AMD's less power-hungry 9600 and 9550 processors. Instead, AMD warns that its quad-core processors should be paired with the company's 790 chipset. Spokesman Jake Whitman blamed PC makers, stating that, "They've taken an enthusiast-class quad-core part and paired it with a mainstream motherboard." Confused yet? Exactly.

[papu @ Apr 29th 2008 12:16PM]

hmm yes and intel quad core extremes are sold with 20dollar motherboards?

[Eric H @ Apr 29th 2008 12:50PM]

I have seen many budget boards that run the intel quads like a champ.

[BigD145 @ Apr 29th 2008 3:17PM]

With integrated graphics and support for only 4GB's or RAM? I know that's what I would want for gaming or crunching video or doing 3D animation...... Quad core is entirely wasted on a $20 motherboard.

[RyanTV @ Apr 29th 2008 12:18PM]

And it's a wonder that they don't sell many processors...

[GreezyG @ Apr 29th 2008 12:21PM]

Its a shame that AMD is circling the bowl... competition is a good thing... Intel has just been spanking them as of late

[slarity @ Apr 29th 2008 12:27PM]

Totally agree, ever since I had a Pentium II and a K6-2 I had been an AMD fan. Then Intel finally released this Core architecture and smoked AMD. I hope AMD isnt down for the count, but things just keep getting worse and worse.

[Ebzy @ Apr 29th 2008 1:25PM]

As an AMD fan today I had to visit Anandtech and spend 20 minutes going over the Athlon-xp and Athlon-64 comparisons with P4s. It cheered me up a while and now this again.

Hi everyone, my name is Ebzy and I'm an addict.

[Willis @ Apr 29th 2008 12:29PM]

and my Phenom 9850 + gigabyte 780G motherboard get delivered today

1#@$!@#$*(&9283$#(&ou

I bought AMD out of pity and am now out of luck, returns returns

[RyanTV @ Apr 29th 2008 12:33PM]

Now the real question is why would you buy computer gear "out of pitty"?

[Dubb @ Apr 29th 2008 12:42PM]

A comment from NewEgg:

On Gigabyte's website, they list the AMD Phenom 9850 as not supported. I didn't see that until after I purchased it, but it works just fine. I'm not overclocking it, you you're results may vary :). This was a nice upgrade for my computer, because it allowed me to upgrade my processor & memory, but hold off with my hard drives & video card. I can deal with my slower IDE drive and the onboard graphics until I'm ready to upgrade those components in the future.

Doing some small digging:

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherboard/CPUSupport_Model.aspx?ProductID=2758

Right there states that the 9850 is not supported. So you just randomly buy stuff and don't check to see if it's compatible? You must be new or something.

[Willis @ Apr 29th 2008 12:48PM]

Really I only had planned on running a phenom 9550 but then Frys had the 9850 for $199, so I impulse bought up, betraying my prior research.

I picked up the atx gigabyte board and a cooler for the vrms and will happily underclock the 9850 if I need to.

It's just real weak sauce on AMD's part when they positioned the 780G as a low-end part to mobo manufacturers.

Quad core + 780G + 8gb ram with Hardy Heron seemed quite idea for the hacking I do. All work, no games.

[Dubb @ Apr 29th 2008 1:08PM]

It guess it would be kind of hard to check compatibility in the middle of Fry's. :)

[tom @ Apr 29th 2008 1:17PM]

Can this be remedied thru a firmware flash? I am no pro in this thermal stuff

[Dubb @ Apr 29th 2008 2:11PM]

@tom

No this is entirely a hardware issue, it can only support the 125W power draw of the new Phenom a little while before the board starts to burn out. See the post below by "andy".

[maty @ Apr 29th 2008 2:57PM]

Huh?! Willis, did you not check your mobo manufacturer's CPU compatabilty list first?

I knew the heat-giving, power-eating AMDs weren't compatible with my motherboard. I had the intelligence to check the MSI website, and as such, if/when I go quad-core, I'll grab myself a new mobo and go Intel!

[Dubb @ Apr 29th 2008 12:33PM]

What I wanna know is, where are the Dual-Cores that are supposed to use AM2+ socket with the 1066 Mhz FSB? Why would they release these Quads that have 1066 Mhz FSB support and not duals at the same time?

Kinda lame, I might have to go with a Core 2 Duo just so I can get the 1066 Mhz FSB, and that makes me sad.

[Kazriko @ Apr 29th 2008 2:20PM]

Well, They did release tri-core processors for that...

[kal326 @ Apr 29th 2008 12:35PM]

This is bad on everybody's part, some board manufacturers made products with a 780 chipset that would support the higher end chips even thought it was not officially supported by the chipset. This also falls on the consumer for not verifying that the parts that they purchased would work together properly. Lastly, its bad that AMD needs to have such a high TDP for their two top chips that require the creme of the crop chipset and board to run them. The extreme edition Intel chips never needed a special motherboard, usually the mainstream boards released in the same generation would support them.

Granted some of the base model boards may not have, but as somebody already pointed out its not really expected to put a top of the line cheap on the bargain basement board. It would be like putting Good Year Viva's on a Ferrari.

[bartoron @ Apr 29th 2008 12:37PM]

Poor Willis. :(

I used to be a huge AMD fanboy, but now I just can't honestly pick any AMD processor over an Intel processor except in a low-budget machine. The performance difference is just too much to ignore.

[andy @ Apr 29th 2008 12:41PM]

You guys should visit anandtech once in a while to check out things like facts.

The current 780G motherboards are only designed for 95 watt TDP. The power supply transistors on the boards pop when you put in a 125 watt TDP processor including the 6400x2. So they run properly for a bit, but then the board dies. Completely.

The 780G chipset IS COMPATIBLE with the phenom processors. The motherboard manufacturers are just making boards that are not capable of supporting the higher power phenoms (and 6400x2), but many are listing the 125W processors as supported. That's the issue.


SHAME ON YOU AND YOUR LAZY REPORTING.

[mb @ Apr 29th 2008 1:48PM]

2nd this, I just build an AMD system and even the most cursory research will show that the 780G doesn't have the wattage for these chips.

It frankly is the PC-makers fault if they don't check their parts.

[MeatyPi @ Apr 29th 2008 12:47PM]

Goodbye AMD, it seems your time is done, and intel will soon swallow you whole, but hey we had fun didn't we?

[broli @ Apr 29th 2008 1:21PM]

Oh what's that...OMG A GIANT OVERPRICED CPUZILLA!!!

[candy.2075 @ Apr 29th 2008 1:41PM]

Its bad that AMD needs to have such a high TDP for their two top chips that require the creme of the crop chipset and board to run them.

[retro77 @ Apr 29th 2008 1:41PM]

For all you AMD haters, I challenge you to tell the difference while using a quad core AMD side by side a quad core Intel. you wont be able to tell the difference. The difference is in the bench marks, the bench marks that push the CPU to a limit that you wont push on a daily basis.

Good night AMD haters.

[AlphaTeam @ Apr 29th 2008 2:04PM]

People don't buy quad core CPUs to create spreadsheets, paint with MS Paint, or chat with you friends. If you spend the extra money you will need it for the occassional Photoshopping, video editing, video encoding, gaming; all which push the cores in the CPU.

Don't mix up AMD haters with people who are looking for practicality.

[retro77 @ Apr 29th 2008 2:36PM]

Photoshop does not require quad cores. Plus gaming and other video intensive activities are done on the GPU, not CPU.

[Murray @ Apr 29th 2008 4:34PM]

You should read the previous posts. they are not talking about power comparison.
They are talking about AMD's new high power chips not being compatible with low end mother boards.
Intel's chips do not have that problem !
Good day and night AMD lover.

[retro77 @ Apr 29th 2008 4:38PM]

Cool. I'll stick to my AMD.

[John Stracke @ Apr 29th 2008 1:59PM]

Man, I'm glad I went with a Core 2 Quad. I was considering a Phenom, but it had compatibility issues with Linux when it first came out. By the time I bought, there were fixed kernels available, but I decided I didn't want to take a chance.

I probably wouldn't have been buying the 9850 anyway, but it looks like Phenom in general is enough of a train wreck that I should stay away from it.

[AlphaTeam @ Apr 29th 2008 2:01PM]

So they have lack of backward compatibility, consumes more power, is slower, and isn't price competitively? Why would anyone buy this?

And no I'm not an AMD hater. Their old processors were amazing; it's that the Intel Core kick butt and have backward compatibility (with BIOS upgrade) all the way to the older 775 sockets for the P4s.

[Neoprimal @ Apr 29th 2008 2:30PM]

No matter what I'll root for AMD. As a matter of fact, as soon as I have money to throw away I'll be wetting my hands with a Phenom setup, just to give them some support.

I have a Q6600 and I love it. Personally though, it feels like Intel is out for blood. They've NEVER had processors priced this low/compet. EVER. The first C2D was released in the high 300s almost 400 right? And now C2Qs are releasing for under 300? I mean granted, technology is evolving and all that, but you really can't help but to think that the second AMD (God forbid, knock on wood) would ever die, that Intel's prices would skyrocket - sure, business and all that. Anyone else remember the days when Intel processors that ran slower than their AMD counterparts were 2-300 more? For that reason, I am glad and thank AMD for their hard work....and as I said, I'll support them by even buying a chip soon.

[Urza @ Apr 29th 2008 2:17PM]

Well, This is sad to hear, but I'm still not gonna be buying an Intel any time soon. Unless you're paying >$250 for your processor, AMD's still way cheaper. And by way cheaper, I mean I can sometimes fine AMD processors for 1/4 the price of a comparable Intel. And personally, I'd rather buy a $50 processor and upgrade it every year than a $300 processor and upgrade it every 3 years. Still cheaper. Plus I still manage decent resale value out of mine.

[Striker @ Apr 29th 2008 10:19PM]

Wow, AMD really blew it these last few years, they did just about nothing to counter the Core architecture, and it seems like they didn't even benchmark the Phenom against the Core 2 to see if their work was even worth it and if they should modify their design. It just seems like Intel made all the right moves, and AMD couldn't even make a move other than a wrong one.

[albanc @ Apr 30th 2008 7:53AM]

It seems to me many people are taking pleasure at "firing on the ambulance" (French expression) regarding AMD these days. Personnally, I own both a 2Ghz core2duo laptop and a 2.2 Ghz Athlon 64 X2 desktop on a 780G motherboard. The later is a skyrocket and I am really happy with it.

Those bashing AMD are forgetting to bash Intel with its crappy G33 and G35 integrated graphics, not even capable to render properly even a simple sphere in 3dsMAX.

From my personnal experience, the 780G is a chipset with superb performance, excellent integrated graphics (especially when it comes to deal with HD video) and incredibly low power consumption. If one reads properly the Anandtech article that has revealed the story, he would figure the chipset is not responsible, but the motherboard designs who supply only 3 or 4 PWM/MOSFET on the 780G Motherboards which are targeted at energy efficient mediacenter PCs, while gaming and high end motherboards typically supply 6 to 8 PWM/MOSFET.

Here is an excerpt from anandtech's article :
"We would like to reiterate that our problems with the AMD 780G motherboards are not chipset related. The problems revolve around the capability of current designs to properly handle the 125W TDP processors at stock settings or when overclocked. As we stated in our first article, the vast majority of users will never install a Phenom 9850BE or Athlon 6400+ X2 in these boards.

The motherboard manufacturers designed these particular products for the SOHO, casual gaming, and HTPC audiences with a price target in the $70~$90 range. This market sector typically will utilize a processor such as the LE1600, 3800+ X2, 4850e, or maybe even a 5000+ BE for their needs. As such, the power delivery design and electrical layout on the boards target the 45W~95W TDP processors. We have yet to have a failure utilizing any processor that meets these criteria after a few thousand hours of collective testing on our 780G motherboards."

Read more here :
http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=427

[albanc @ Apr 30th 2008 8:10AM]

Now, may we talk about intel chipsets on the same segment. The same Anandtech article states :
"Our sources have told us that the Intel G45 is suffering growing pains. The current revision is locked at a 667MHz GPU core speed and the VC1/H.264 decoder capabilities are turned off. A new revision will be available in July with the 800MHz GPU core speed and VC1/H.264 decoder capabilities turned on. In essence, the first chipsets (if they are available) will be nothing more than a G35+. We will update this information as we receive additional information."

So with an Intel motherboard of the same segment, you may be able to run an high end quad core processor, but you are likely to get choppy HD video playback because they have yet to manage how to accelerate H.264 properly. My 780G displays a 1080p video smoothly using an Athlon 64 X2 4400+ with a 65% CPU load. Read that Intel lovers ?

[William Tidwell @ Apr 30th 2008 4:54PM]

I a not an AMD fanboy and have used Intel chips on every comouter build except one. But I strongly hope AMD survives. Competition is good. I well rememeber when AMD passed a complacent Intel, and I think we have that AMD success to thank for the marveloues Intel Core chips we have today

[Tom @ May 2nd 2008 5:43AM]

Could someone comment about the Phenom 9850 + Asus M3A (AMD 770). Same problems as with the 780 boards?

[Colin @ Jun 1st 2008 3:31AM]

Bought me a 9850+ and a Gigabyte 790 based chipset motherboard.
While it was shipping, I started doing some reading. I read that the
gigabyte board I bought will NOT work with the phenom 9850 unless
I upgraded the BIOS from F3 to F5.

So I got me a cheap AM2 chip and did the upgrade, (by that time the MOBO / CPU arrived). After upgrading I placed in the 9850, got
some errors with the RAM, trottled it down to 800 Mhz from 1066 Mhz
and stable ever since.

Installed Vista Business 64 Bit, got some errors while installing, removed 2 GIGS, continued installing, no problems after that.
Reinstalled my 2 GIGS moving back to 4 Gigs

The fact is that these are enthusiast CPUs and Motherboard.
And the latest on the market.

The is means that you will be required to do the extra home
work research and reading up required to get things going.

Colin