Sumitomo debuts superconductor powered electric car

Okay, the science nerds in the audience didn't exactly let us know that we've entered the age of commercial superconductors, but apparently Sumitomo Electric has built a Toyota Crown Comfort that's powered by a superconducting engine. Cooled by liquid nitrogen to -200° C, apparently all this madness nets you an extra 10% gain in distance over regular battery-powered motors. In other words: totally, completely worth the near comical impracticality.

[Via Uber Review]

[maty @ Jun 14th 2008 9:22AM]

I bet you'd get another 10% if they'd bothered to make it somewhat more aerodynamic.

[steve @ Jun 14th 2008 12:05PM]

True, but i'd rather it looked like this than a typical electric car (ugly).

[Temple @ Jun 14th 2008 1:27PM]

Its the Toyota Crown. Which is like the defacto Taxi, commuter vehicle in Japan. Like the Ford Crown Victoria. Odiously, Sumimoto choose the vehicle because its a point of reference that everybody (in Japan) knows.

[hiko36 @ Jun 15th 2008 1:38AM]

I dont think "Taxi, commuter vehicle" whenever I see a Crown Vic, I think either Po-Pos or Ghetto Bumpers...

[nak @ Jun 14th 2008 9:24AM]

Woo! The 70s! With nitrogen!

[Thi mam(kris120890) @ Jun 14th 2008 9:32AM]

You should watch top gear. They took a 70's jag and stuck nitrogen in it and it beeat just about all the top supercars in straight line race. supercars included ferraris and pagani zondas.

[Thi mam(kris120890) @ Jun 14th 2008 9:32AM]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sWXdaIysFTM&feature=related

Watch this

[bartoron @ Jun 14th 2008 9:33AM]

Weird, I was expecting that link to be a Rickroll. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it wasn't.

[Thi mam(kris120890) @ Jun 14th 2008 9:39AM]

Okay totaly wrong link try this one.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0QPOVj-GEpI&feature=related

[DESTOS @ Jun 14th 2008 11:58AM]

Weird, I was expecting THAT link to be a Rickroll. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it was just a longer version of the same wrong link.

[naz @ Jun 14th 2008 12:04PM]

Check out THIS link, this was what "Thi mam(kris120890)" was talking about

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zom9_PtijRY

[DESTOS @ Jun 14th 2008 12:10PM]

Thank you naz.



...any relation to nak?

[Flashpoint @ Jun 14th 2008 9:51AM]

"near comical"

NOT IF YOU'RE MR. FREEZE !

[Flashpoint @ Jun 14th 2008 9:54AM]

Some 400 pound 22"S and a 100 pound subwoofer system will almost certainly decrease that 10% gain.

[happy_penguin @ Jun 14th 2008 10:07AM]

From the youtube link above:

"The time has come to find out whether the supercars made now, under Mr Blair are a match for the supercars that were made while Mrs. Thatcher was running the shop."

Uh... how does that work? Jaguar is Brit and Pagani is Italian. Talk about political spin. :rolleyes:

[happy_penguin @ Jun 14th 2008 10:08AM]

Dammit this was supposed to be under nak in reply to Thi mam(kris120890)

[Thi mam(kris120890) @ Jun 14th 2008 10:42AM]

Was talking about era's rather than countries. I thought that was pretty obvious and i got two wrong links neither were what i was looking for but i can't delete them.

[happy_penguin @ Jun 14th 2008 6:39PM]

Low ranked? Where is the love?!

[happy_penguin @ Jun 14th 2008 10:35AM]

"pretty good looking car"? It looks like a friggin 25 year old Plymouth Reliant!

[RayT @ Jun 14th 2008 9:48PM]

It looks just like a 1960s Ford Cortina Mark II.

[tekdroid @ Jun 14th 2008 10:37AM]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Comfort#TRD_Comfort_GT-Z_Supercharger

[Tim @ Jun 14th 2008 10:48AM]

The Toyota Crown constitutes the majority of the vast fleet of taxis in Tokyo, so all in, this should make quite a bit of saving.

[w00t @ Jun 14th 2008 10:55AM]

Which will all be wasted twice over by the infrastructure required to replace all the liquid nitrogen :)

[Roboticmayhem @ Jun 14th 2008 11:44AM]

I think the liquid nitrogen system is closed which means that once they are filled, they never have to be refilled (unless something breaks which it inevitalby will.)

But I agree, the first step is to do all the electric converisons. Then, if it is beneficial to the taxi company, or whoever has the electric cars, to save that 10%, splurge on the nitrogen system. For a taxi company, saving 10% of all the energy of hundreds of cars driving arround all day could be a really big difference. I see it easily paying for itself, depending on the size of the company, within a year or two.

[Larry Middleman @ Jun 14th 2008 10:50PM]

It can't run on the same liquid nitrogen indefinitely. Motors, even those with superconducting wires, produce heat. We also don't have perfect insulation technology.

[w00t @ Jun 14th 2008 3:12PM]

It doesn't work like that, the cooling effect of liquid nitrogen is caused as it boils off drawing heat from the surrounding matter.

If you stored it in a closed system it'd just heat up until the container fails which is why it's generally stored in insulated tanks with relief valves and only for hours or weeks at a time.

[Roboticmayhem @ Jun 14th 2008 10:25PM]

Really? Well good... thank you AP Physics B for teaching me absolutely nothing.

I appreciate the clarification w00t.

Although there must be a way to keep the system closed, because if it weren't, you're absolutely right, it would cost far too much. In a sense, you'd be using two fuels. I'll bet part of this superconducting system's genious is in keeping the system closed.

Here's an idea (merely specualtion, I haven't looked at every angle but it has potential): to pull gas through a system you either need a lower tempurature for the gas to flow to or a lower pressure, neither of which this has if the system is closed, use the engine to drive a fan with a belt (think supercharger) to circulate the N2 gas as it evaporates in heat pipes sorrounding the engine and directs it towards the compressor.

Not only could it possibly work, but you could call it a supercar with good reason, would use superconducting electronics and be supercharged. Heck, why not power it with supercapacitors continuously charged with the superior Li-po batteries? It'd have the speed to match the name.

[Roboticmayhem @ Jun 14th 2008 10:54AM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIdO7SlU2YI

pretty sure you meant this...

[w00t @ Jun 14th 2008 10:56AM]

Yes that's what he meant, and now this conversation spans four threads! :)

[Thi mam(kris120890) @ Jun 14th 2008 11:14AM]

Thats exactly what i mean't cheers.
God knows why i couldn't find it.

[Asha @ Jun 15th 2008 10:09PM]

There is a difference between nitrous injection and nitrogen cooled electric.

[x3qt0r @ Jun 14th 2008 11:01AM]

and what keeps the nitrogen at minus 200 degree Celsius ?

[Rick @ Jun 14th 2008 1:31PM]

Cryogenic systems use dewars to keep the LN2 or what ever liquid gas cold.

[andres @ Jun 14th 2008 3:12PM]

they use dewars to keep them compressed, if you dont let it expand, it doesnt cool anymore. you need something to recompress the gas you let expand or else your cooling cycle runs out when you run out of nitrogen

[Rob @ Jun 14th 2008 4:21PM]

Maybe it uses the liquid nitrogen in a closed regenerating cycle, like a freezer, except colder:

http://home.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator4.htm

Of course, that would take a lot of power and space...

[N4N0T3CH @ Jun 14th 2008 11:03AM]

If you are going to cool a car down to superconducting temperatures, you might as well store pressurized, liquid hydrogen to your generate electricity and act as the coolant.

[Roboticmayhem @ Jun 14th 2008 11:20AM]

The problem with that I think, is that Hydrogen is so volatile and easy to combust. Considering electicmotors have a bad habit of generating sparks, any sort of leak or contact could set off all the coolant in the car as well as the pressurized fuel almost instantly. The nitrogen is not nearly as reactive and far cheaper so its easy to make a closed system using that as coolant. Plus, with hydrogen, as you use up fuel making electricity, you are also running down on coolant. If you run out, you have to circulate the entire system to bring it back to normal.

[N4N0T3CH @ Jun 14th 2008 11:46AM]

Good Call.

Maybe it would work as part of a multistage coolant-fuel system. Have a direct coolant loop of nitrogen that interfaces with the motor at one end and the H tank at the other.

[Roboticmayhem @ Jun 14th 2008 11:52AM]

Whatever works... but you're right, you could be even more efficient if the fuel and coolant were presurized or cooled by the same mechanism (if they decide to go with a fuel cell solution as well.) Although it wouldn't save too much energy, the decrease in weight could have an advantage when weaving through thick city traffic and collision avoidance.

Really, the engineer behind the project could analize what works best for their application more accurately than our speculation.

[Shinigami @ Jun 14th 2008 11:13AM]

Yes if you're Mr.Frozen

[Smileypanda @ Jun 14th 2008 11:20AM]

K, it's not powered by superconductors per se, that's like saying its powered by electrical wire. Superconductors are just used to save more power by lowering the resistance of the circuit...

[Minilap @ Jun 14th 2008 11:44AM]

That car looks so much like another car that's made in Iran. But that sucker sucks lots of GAS.

[Rick @ Jun 14th 2008 1:33PM]

They dont specify how much LN2 is in the system. I would be nervous in a collision of the LN2 system were to rupture. If you couldnt get out of the vehicle and enough of the stuff evaporated you could quickly suffocate.

[Roboticmayhem @ Jun 14th 2008 3:00PM]

If they were to make a system like this, they would go through many many hours of testing and then certification to be sure its safe. They would have built in features that keep the N2 gas out of the cabin have it exit throught the hood or from under the car (does N2 gas rise or sink in air?). They would also probably be required to have an N2 sensor in the cabin like a carbon monoxide sensor in a house to warn you if there is gas present or a gas leak. They could also probably tell by a decrease in pressure in the Nitrogen system.

In a crash though you are right, it could be lethal, but in all honesty, isn't gasoline just as bad? It' s bad in different ways but just as dangerous. We seem to do okay driving along with 30-50 gallons of highly flamable liquids stored underneath us.

[groggle @ Jun 14th 2008 2:12PM]

What's up with the rear view mirrors mounted on the hood? Does that give you extra killing power on Tokyo streets? As far as electric cars not being sexy... I have one word: TESLA!

[Roboticmayhem @ Jun 14th 2008 3:27PM]

Tim mentioned earlier that these cars make up most of the taxis in Tokyo, so some assume that having the mirrors farther forward allows the driver to see cars next to him/her more easily in traffic.

_
|
d|-
| \
_| \

vs

_
|-
d| \
| \
_| \

However, physics says that technically, you won't see any more in the mirror as it moves farther away from you (wiki or google it if you're interested in the math behind that) but an uneducated taxi driver wouldn't know that and may be tricked into believing it helps him/her. If this car was dropped by a taxi agency because they were replacing cars, this company may have picked it up cheap and just not bothered to change anything.

Another less practical but also less demeaning suggestion is that it may have a connotation of "luxurious" or "stylish" in Japan, much the same way we have silly trends or features which we consider luxury in the west (where ever you happen to be from.)

[Roboticmayhem @ Jun 14th 2008 3:31PM]

hmm... that diagram didn't really work out, the top is with a mirror in the center and the bottom is with a mirror in the front. The first and third | in each picture should have several spaces before them to form a box. Just use your imagination.

[Timothy Frierson @ Jun 14th 2008 4:27PM]

Japanese motor vehicle law used to state that the outside mirrors be visible through the area swept by the wipers.

[Roboticmayhem @ Jun 14th 2008 4:03PM]

It needs a widebody kit to stress the fenders (think Nissan Skyline 1998 - 2000 R34 and GT-R.) That would stress your 22" wheels and give it a muscular stance while allowing for wider wheels for more grip while accelerating and turning. Under the doors, it needs some nice rocker pannels and a llarger front bumper. The suspentioned also needs to be shortened and stiffened to get the hunkered down fast look. Then replace the light covers with a clear, untextured, and uncolored plastic and replace the stock lights with in projector beams for the main headlights and brights and LED pannels for everything else. Depending on how fast it is you may even want a rear adjustable wing to go with it.

Depending on money and time, you could even finish it off with either a small chop-top or all out convertible conversion: any thing that will get the windshield to lie back farther and bring the side windows in at the top. Finally, get a good deep shade of paint: dark burgundy or violet, something rich in color but not flashy, and get a detailed paint job.

I can't see the interior, but it needs bucket seats and a short throw shifter as well as a charge, and amperage guage in place of the heat and gas guages if you're doing this electric thing.

This could look good with some time and money. The problem is though, without a reputation for being an easy car to work on, nobody will be willing to spend that time or money.

[Fred @ Jun 14th 2008 8:23PM]

Mirrors: Some small streets in Japan have incredibly blind corners (one road near my house is 10 ft wide and joins another road at a 240 degree angle with a wall blocking he view)....taxi drivers need to be able to poke their mirrors further into an intersection to see if anyone is coming. These days taxis are pretty much the only cars with the fender mirrors, but they do use them!

BTW, the interiors are tough but cheap-looking, almost all plastic. Very roomy, loads of room for custom work. I'm also guessing that they chose it because it had a lot of room under the hood and a big trunk to stash the N02 gear.