Montreal's Public Bike System uses RFID, solar power, and tons of social trust

There are all sorts of ways to deal with rising gas prices and public transportation needs, and Montreal is getting in the game with what they're calling the Public Bike System. Utilizing a central inventory and check-out website, solar-powered docking stations, and high-tech RFID-tagged aluminum bikes, the system is a gadget-maxed project that could be amazing or turn into a complete theft disaster. Each station holds six bikes and six docks, and users can find the nearest available bike on a website and then return the bike to any other dock. Payments can be made via credit, debit, or "member" card. Quick question, though -- what if a popular destination has no available docks for a drop-off?

[austin @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:29PM]

"what if a popular destination has no available docks for a drop-off?"

i think the point is to put them in popular destinations.

[josh @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:49PM]

Austin: I meant: Say there's an event at some downtown venue, and more people show up with rent-a-bikes than there are docks, assuming they already put docks there. Happens with Zip car sometimes.

[computer.dude.28 @ Jun 22nd 2008 5:29PM]

Yeah he means what if all the docks are full what are you supposed to do with the bike.

[Echo1 @ Jun 22nd 2008 9:38PM]

I guess in that case , BRING YOUR OWN BIKE!

[9co @ Jun 23rd 2008 5:48AM]

A program with bikes for rent with docking stations has been in operation in Oslo for years and works perfectly. The bikes don`t make anybody drool, so only the occasional heroin enthusiast bothers to steal one.

The docking stations are connected to Internet and monitored. Trucks move around the city filling up empty stations and removing bikes from full ones.

[ray @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:30PM]

I've seen this in Paris- it works brilliantly but I'm not sure if it has actually taken much traffic off the road or just people who were using the bus/metro beforehand anyway.

[Ryan @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:32PM]

I'm guessing that if its popular, then it will probably have a dock there. My worry would be more on the side of sanitation, and all the sweaty butts that have been on that seat before me. I would never use one of these...mainly for the same reason I don't like using public restrooms or porta-potties for my business.

[Fatima @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:51PM]

You need to visit a 3rd world country. You will love it. It will be a huge eye opener.

[gad get @ Jun 22nd 2008 6:53PM]

Ryan's got a point, though. I mean, I often ride my bike with my butt on the handlebars, and my face resting on the seat (I just find it more comfortable), so a sanitary bike seat is definitely a concern for me.

[dreamscape86 @ Jun 22nd 2008 7:08PM]

Try pants. They're awesome.

[dreamscape86 @ Jun 22nd 2008 8:54PM]

Try pants. They're awesome.

[phrozunsun @ Jun 23rd 2008 10:17PM]

ultraaaa! ultraaaa! ultraaaaaa!!!!!!

[skulldriveshaft @ Jun 23rd 2008 1:41AM]

But what kinda business are you in?

[Dima @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:32PM]

Community bicycle programs without user electronic identification struggle against theft and vandalism. In one program tried in 1993 in Cambridge, United Kingdom, all 300 bicycles were stolen on the first day of operation, and the program was abandoned.[citation needed]

[Bob @ Jun 22nd 2008 8:22PM]

Hmmm... If they made the system only available by debit/credit card (no prepaid debit cards allowed), then they should just be able to charge the card for the full amount of the cost of the bike, no?

[skulldriveshaft @ Jun 23rd 2008 2:05AM]

Yes, you do need a citation.

Did you just google this, or something?

[Dmitrij @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:33PM]

Community bicycle programs without user electronic identification
struggle against theft and vandalism. In one program tried in 1993 in
Cambridge, United Kingdom, all 300 bicycles were stolen on the first
day of operation, and the program was abandoned.

from wikipedia

[xor24 @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:57PM]

although i support wikipedia it's moto is a free encyclopedia anyone caan edit so by the very nature it can sometimes unacurate

[Wolfticket @ Jun 22nd 2008 6:45PM]

Although I support good spelling and grammar, anyone can post comments on Engadget, so by it’s very nature it can sometimes be inaccurate.

[Taylor @ Jun 22nd 2008 8:10PM]

Wolfticket:
Although I support you punishing those who use horrible grammar, by its very nature, make sure you use the right "its".

[Wolfticket @ Jun 22nd 2008 10:44PM]

Touché
(And i checked it extra carefull like for erors, for obvious reason's :D)

[Haikibutsu @ Jun 22nd 2008 11:14PM]

Apple fanboys embarrass the mac users.

Me thinks Steve and Edwardo are Clak.

[phanbouy @ Jun 23rd 2008 1:44AM]

Haiki: u can haz irrelevance?

[skulldriveshaft @ Jun 23rd 2008 2:13AM]

& Dima

"without user electronic identification struggle against theft and vandalism."

And that's why this system HAS "user electronic identification".

[Haikibutsu @ Jun 23rd 2008 4:32AM]

Aww dammit, I pressed the wrong reply button.

[ray @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:34PM]

"what if a popular destination has no available docks for a drop-off?"
In the french one they constantly monitor how many bikes are on each dock but there are deifinitely more than 6 places available on most of the ones I saw (maybe around 15) . If one dock has too few they send a truckload to that place.

[Artie Lange @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:40PM]

These programs are a great idea for densely populated urban areas with warm climates, but they make absolutely no sense in America. Most of our cities are too spread out, and those that aren't (Really, NYC is the only example) are rife with crime and inclimate weather. It works in European/Scandanavian Utopias, but not in the U.S. But hey, if it assuages American hipsters' European-influenced inferiority complexes, go for it.

[derX @ Jun 22nd 2008 5:36PM]

Oh yes, because there's never been a sunny day without crime ever in NYC. Yes, a relatively crime-free Spring day has never rolled around. Seriously, NYC really is inundated with snow and crime. In fact, the crime rate has seriously gone down and, believe or not, the sun shines sometimes.

I disagree with you (clearly). I actually think this is a good idea. There are plenty of times when I'd like to enjoy the nice weather (such as today) without the hassle of bringing my own bike places.

[grenavitar @ Jun 22nd 2008 5:58PM]

Saying American cities are less dense is a clear over generalization. Let's say dozens are less dense, there are dozens where this kind of system makes sense. This system works well in dense areas, of course, but it's great in areas like Brooklyn or Queens where you don't want to build a new rail line and where some areas are incredibly under served. That's what makes this system so great in Paris. You can ride on their bike paths to areas under served by metro in short periods of time and have a place to leave your bike. I only ran into a full rack once and that was by the Eiffel tower during summer at peak hours. Other than that I always found a bike and always could drop them off. It's a great system that I think even smaller communities could benefit from. And by that I'm referring specifically to Wilmington, DE which has about 80,000 people and is not considered one of America's great cities.

[Kinowolf @ Jun 22nd 2008 6:22PM]

You need to actually go to NYC. It's different than the movies, especially these days. But you're right about density. This isn't good for LA, but it could work in parts of San Fran, NYC, Montreal, etc.

It works well throughout Europe, which really isn't a "utopia." Seriously, I'm not sure if you've spent much if any time in either Europe or NY.

[Eli @ Jun 22nd 2008 7:32PM]

Montreal is a great city for cycling; If theft isn't a problem, this program will do very well.

[Denden @ Jun 22nd 2008 8:21PM]

I'm sorry since when was Montreal part of the US? I totally disagree with the overgeneralization of North American cities. Besides last time I checked Scandinavia wasn't really known for being a warm temperate area...

[Zorque @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:41PM]

I don't care if you're being serious or sarcastic, whatever you're saying sucks.

[Edwardo @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:44PM]

Hey man be quite. First of all if you didn't care then you would not of responded. Get over your arrogant self and for once keep your comments to yourself. Thank you.

[WildParadise @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:47PM]

@Dima,

If you steal the bike they simply gonna charge you either via you member pass (which require account or credit card) or on your credit card.

cash payment is for parking only.

[peshue @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:48PM]

I imagine these could have the same problems that similar car system like zipcar have. People just plain treating them like shit. Although it's much easier to upkeep a bike than a car.

[Zorque @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:49PM]

I'm thinking Edwardo and Steve are the same person.

[Arne Hess @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:50PM]

"what if a popular destination has no available docks for a drop-off?"

Exactly this happened to me in Paris a couple of times since Paris has a similar system with "docking-stations". Quite frustrating if you have to cruise around with your bike to find a "parking space". I prefer the Munich system where you can drop-off your bike wherever you want since it's not using docking stations.

[grenavitar @ Jun 22nd 2008 6:03PM]

But automation and docking stations are key to a good system where thousands of people use the bikes each day. In Zurich (just a summer experimental program) where you give collateral and a deposit and then bring it back it takes 5 minutes to get a bike whereas in Paris it taktes 3 minutes the first time and 30 second each other time. Also, you can have more stations when you don't need to staff them. The key isn't scrapping the automation it's improving the response of the transit program in moving bikes when necessary and in really dense areas (Eiffel Tower) have each station point to other stations in the area (they did have okay little maps, could have been better).

[Scott @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:50PM]

This isn't really new, Paris has some 15,000 biles available electronicly at "stations" throughout the city that are supposed to be no less than 300m apart and are quite frequently much closer than that. Although it's not wireless or solar powered, it's been up since last July and uses RFID on the bikes and the RFID metro cards.

Really, the only thing that's news here is the solar powered, wireless system that allows stations to be setup and moved at will.

As for Paris, the system (called Velib) is immensely successful. And is itself a bigger version of the system in Lyon, France which was in place at least a year before Paris. Bikes do get vandalized but with a 150euro block on your credit card to rent, people are a little more careful with them.

[Jon Doe. @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:51PM]

My assumption would be that you could lock it up at the destination, and take it back to its original location when you are done with the bike. All in all though I'd rather just drop money on a bike itself.

[Nastro @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:51PM]

Doomed to failure...another hippie feel good idea destined for the trash bin of reality.

[Jake @ Jun 22nd 2008 10:21PM]

hmm. after the 8th such posting it would appear that the complete assholes of the world are trolling engadget tonight.

douchebags unite!

-jp

[phanbouy @ Jun 23rd 2008 1:46AM]

Ha... you are a fucking idiot... right, only hippies use bicycles or public services. Hey numb nuts, both have been around a lot longer than the hippy movement. And a helluva lot longer than the neoconservative "movement"

[Andrew ? @ Jun 22nd 2008 4:58PM]

In Oslo they have a little truck that transports mass amounts of bicycles so that there isn't any pileup.

(Kind of defeats the purpose of saving the environment, but helps the purpose of promoting community)

[skulldriveshaft @ Jun 23rd 2008 2:01AM]

Atleast it's just a little pick-up for bicycles, and not TWO off road motor cycles.

I think the number of people using the bicycles, and few little pickups, pales in comparison if all those people were using their own vehicles.

[xor24 @ Jun 22nd 2008 5:00PM]

why would u think windows be used i would definitely use Linux over a windows OS.
PS:Apple sucks (sept for iPhone and ipod) Apple fanboys are even worse though cause they're always obnoxious bitches.

[Artie Lange @ Jun 22nd 2008 5:01PM]

He DRAGGED IT ACROSS?!?! Filthy spiteful buggers, hobos.

[Artie Lange @ Jun 22nd 2008 5:04PM]

I'm thinking I don't care, 'cause I love 'em both!

[SD @ Jun 22nd 2008 5:07PM]

Ummm, this comment shows so much ignorance I don't know where to begin..

First of all, this is not a "high-risk experimental program". It has been tested in France ("Velove" in Lyon and "Velib" in Paris) and has been shown to be a huge success. In satisfaction surveys, 94% of people who used the Velib were satisfied, and 97% would recommend it to a friend.

I've used the Velibs myself, and they are awesome. It's extremely easy to obtain one. If you have a NaviGO transit pass, you simply touch it to the dock next to the bike and take it. If not, you can buy a ticket at the dock itself (using a bank card), which takes 2 minutes at the most.

The bikes are simple, but very well-equiped and solid. They have 3 speeds, headlight/taillight, are fairly lightweight and include a lock if you need it. You can return it at any dock, and the docks are *everywhere* so it's no problem if the bike breaks down. If there is a dock which is particularly popular (the bikes on the top of hills are more heavily used, for example), then a truck comes by to transport bikes between the docks to even things out.

And no person is going to be "too lazy" to return the bike; their bank card would be charged for the cost of the bike.