Another team figures out how to convert waste heat into energy

Not that mad scientists haven't figured out a way to convert waste heat into energy, but a team from Ohio State University has developed a new material that does the same sort of thing... just way, way better. The new material goes by the name thallium-doped lead telluride, and at least in theory, it could actually convert exhaust heat from vehicles into electricity. According to a new report about to hit the journal Science, the material packs "twice the efficiency of anything currently on the market," though it still seems as if it's a good ways out from being ready for commercial applications. Nanotechnology geeks -- you've got a real treat waiting in the read link.

[Via CNET]

[Lloyd @ Jul 25th 2008 12:59PM]

i'm glad to see researchers working on things like this. this is the future of technology.

it's also great proof that energy technologies are a great investment.

[Samboini @ Jul 25th 2008 3:02PM]

Lead is always a nasty material though, including manufacture, use and recycling/disposal. Thallium probably isn't to healthy either?

[ds @ Jul 25th 2008 4:13PM]

-Thallium's toxicity has led to its use (now discontinued in many countries) as a rat and ant poison.

-Thallium is a suspected human carcinogen.

-wikipedia

[joel @ Jul 25th 2008 5:26PM]

the lead based solder that was banned was used for plumbing. Lead based solder for electronic components is still widely used and is readily available at any Radio Shack

[ishism @ Jul 25th 2008 8:46PM]

will this still be relevant when we switch to hydrogen powered cars?
(Hoping we switch to hydrogen powered cars)

[loosely_coupled @ Jul 26th 2008 12:17AM]

It's DOPED with Thallium people, it's not large pieces of thalium by itself for god sakes. And this is something that would remain out of contact of humans, and integrated into the car's power system. It would also be recycled like many other elements.

Not everything that is potentially toxic is bad. Thats why orgs like Greenpeace drive me F'ing crazy! They focus on all the little BS stuff, instead of prioritizing environmental problems. The EPA does the same crap. They'll let a huge oil refinery spew out such pollution that people in those towns actually have OPEN SORES ON THEIR SKIN, but then they will kill a renewable energy project because it could harm the environment of some rare fresh-water clam or something! GOD ITS ANNOYING!

[macserv @ Jul 26th 2008 1:39PM]

If you're scared of the lead and thallium in this, you should be downright terrified of the chlorine in your Splenda.

[dukemang @ Jul 25th 2008 1:14PM]

If they could just turn this into a paint, and just a paint all the heated surfaces in a car, then you'd have something.

[Stephen @ Jul 25th 2008 1:13PM]

i wonder if this could also be utilized in space...i hear the temperature on mars gets pretty hot.

[CraigJ @ Jul 25th 2008 1:48PM]

The average recorded temperature on Mars is -63° C (-81° F) with a maximum temperature of 20° C (68° F) and a minimum of -140° C (-220° F).

[Chris @ Jul 25th 2008 2:36PM]

/smackdown

[Reid @ Jul 25th 2008 1:13PM]

I'm putting my money on this being an E39 M5 exhaust

[bartoron @ Jul 25th 2008 1:35PM]

I'm putting my money on this not.

[Speeddemon2008 @ Jul 25th 2008 2:06PM]

i would definitely say BMW, but to say M5, im not sure with that.

[JamesR @ Jul 25th 2008 2:58PM]

Agreed.

http://severinghaus.org/gallery/d/1932-3/P1125759_e39_m5_sm.jpg

[J3 L U N T @ Jul 25th 2008 6:53PM]

im with e39 m5 as well. that bumper is def from the e39 body style and the fact the exhaust looks stock (meaning it wasn't a 540, 530, etc... with a sport kit) it most defiantly has the matching pair on the other side making it the m5.

first thing i noticed before reading the article. bmw ftw!

[michas_pi @ Jul 25th 2008 1:20PM]

Now if that team can convert football rage to electricity, we've got ourselves a winner.

[michas_pi @ Jul 25th 2008 1:20PM]

Anger-powered jet packs come to mind.

[Lloyd @ Jul 25th 2008 1:28PM]

the hulk did it! LOL

[Steffen Jobbs @ Jul 25th 2008 4:29PM]

Put a mask over Steve Ballmer's mouth and pipe some of that converted hot air into the Queen Mary 2 so it can make a few trips around the world.

[atbnet @ Jul 25th 2008 1:22PM]

Just think if you could line the cooling towers of power plants with this material.

[Steven @ Jul 25th 2008 1:25PM]

That actually makes a lot of sense.

[Dave @ Jul 25th 2008 1:32PM]

Well, cooling towers are the end result of converting fuel into heat, into steam, into mechanical motion, into electricity, and the leftover low-temperature steam is condensed in the cooling towers. I don't think cooling towers are quite hot enough for these. Car engines are much less efficient at utilizing heat energy than power plants are.

But a large-scale efficient thermoelectric device could just cut out all the middle processes at a power-plant, and convert the heat from fuel directly into electricity, kind of like a fuel cell, but able to use any burnable fuel (or nuclear, or solar, etc). Neat.

Anyone remember the nuclear thermoelectric generators they used on the moon during Apollo? The astronauts had to hand load the plutonium rods into them, once they got to the moon. I guess a space suit makes a fair-to-middlin' radiation suit. :-)

[paul34 @ Jul 25th 2008 1:39PM]

Something like this would be useful in a combined cycle plant, among other types, indeed.

For those of you who don't know, a combined cycle plant is essentially a large turbine (like a jet engine), fired by natural gas or oil usually.

The combined part comes from using the waste heat generated by the turbine to generate steam and spin a generator.

I've always wondered if you go a step further and use the exhaust pressure to spin another generator, like how a turbo works.

[Benson @ Jul 25th 2008 5:18PM]

@Paul34:
Can't do that; the turbine converts pressure drop to power; in a powerplant, it's designed to take the pressure down as far as possible. You can't piggyback another turbine on the back, because you're already at or near condensation. (Three-cycle plants are possible, of course, using a gas cycle, then either a steam or gas cycle, and finally a steam cycle, but you have to have the full loop using a heat exchanger to get the heat out of the turbine exhaust, not using the pressure.)

In an ICE, of course, the exhaust is at little risk of condensing, because it's mainly air, not steam (i.e. it's a gas cycle), and it exits at high pressure; so sticking a turbine on makes sense.

[Ken @ Jul 28th 2008 11:27AM]

@Benson
Ideally, an ICE uses the oxygen in air to bind hydrogen and carbon in lower energy states producing carbon dioxide and water. The nitrogen is passed through and not altered so long as the combustion temperatures are kept low. ICE exhaust most certainly contains steam.

[scott @ Jul 25th 2008 1:31PM]

It is not "Ohio State University". It's "The Ohio State University" !
;) really.

[Jon @ Jul 25th 2008 1:58PM]

O-H

[jefffaucher @ Jul 25th 2008 2:04PM]

Wow, gee thanks mister, because I had no idea which university they were talking about. Good thing you came along to clear it up.

[blueiroc350 @ Jul 25th 2008 3:22PM]

I-O! Go Bucks!!

[Benson @ Jul 25th 2008 5:18PM]

An Ohio State University.

[betapenguin @ Jul 25th 2008 8:54PM]

IO!

[Daniel Bier @ Jul 26th 2008 3:02PM]

This will come in handy when Michigan crashes and burns at the Shoe this year :)

[ron @ Jul 25th 2008 1:35PM]

Heck, why now coat large rods with this material and bury them into the earth`s core at the depth at which the optimal temperature could be achieved. Free, constant and clean electricity!

[Dave @ Jul 25th 2008 1:47PM]

That doesn't work, either. ANY generation of power requires a *difference* in temperature (or pressure, with Boyles Law) to work. So if you coat the rods with the stuff and put them down where it's hot, the rods will heat to the local ambient temperature, and no more electricity will be generated.

[ronEbear @ Jul 25th 2008 1:54PM]

Ok then, all that would be required at that point would be to pipe cold fluid into the rods to cool them down to then be re-heated. (assuming that this method for power production requires temperature differences). Still free, constant and clean energy.

[paul34 @ Jul 25th 2008 1:56PM]

How do you know it is clean? Have you thoroughly researched how this stuff is manufactured?

[eryn @ Jul 25th 2008 4:05PM]

don't they do that already, geothermal energy. piping water down to a fissure and the resulting super heated steam coming up another pipe powering a turbine - probably more effecient too...

[Ken @ Jul 28th 2008 11:14AM]

You do understand that the dynamo that is our molten core is what keeps our atmosphere from being wiped away via solar radiation, right? Accelerating the cooling of the Earth's core is probably not a good idea.

[greg @ Jul 26th 2008 2:27AM]

Darin, really - did you read the article? "Nanotechnology geeks" won't have a real treat, they're going to get squashed. They abandoned the nanotechnology route for something a lot more conventional because it was too hard to do. Suggest you reread - do you still have the link? ;-)

[ronEbear @ Jul 25th 2008 2:03PM]

Because I use it in my corn flakes avery morning.

Nothing is clean when MANUFACTURED, no one mentioned manufacturing. What would be clean is the energy produced by not burning fuels to produce power in the first place. And if these researchers suggest using it in automobiles (mere feet away from humans), I can`t see why it would be dangerous to bury coated rods a few kilometres undergound.

[Josh L @ Jul 25th 2008 2:28PM]

The ignorance on display here is both depressing and... Well, no. Really it's just depressing.

[ronEbear @ Jul 25th 2008 2:33PM]

Should I call a shrink for you or will you be able to manage your depression? Are you feeling blue? Don`t have anywhere to direct your rage and anger? It will all be ok. Just don`t think of suicide. Oh noes, I might have just put the idea in your head!! Don`t do it!!!!

[ehisforadam @ Jul 25th 2008 2:27PM]

The pure and simple fact that it contains lead is probably going to kill it before it goes anywhere, at least in consumer products. Which is really sad, because it could be quite useful.

[Cal @ Jul 25th 2008 2:37PM]

For sure. I totally eat my exhaust pipe, so lead would be a definite hazzard

[ehisforadam @ Jul 25th 2008 3:04PM]

Cal: you don't eat the solder in electronics either, but that doesn't have lead in it anymore either.

[joel @ Jul 25th 2008 5:22PM]

Lightbulbs still use lead.....even compact flourecents. Take a look at that soft metal at the base of the bulb that helps it make contact with the socket. And kids are more likely to put a light bulb in their mouth, uncle Fester style, than they are to lick an exhaust pipe. In a more extreme example, CRT televisions and monitors use vast quantities of lead to coat the back of the picture tube, many large tubes use 20-30 lbs of lead. Of course if you were to lick the lead on a CRT you would have a whole other problem on your hands than a little lead poisening. If it can recover wasted energy and isn't likely to end up in a childs mouth, I could see it being implimented, lead or not.

[Ken @ Jul 28th 2008 11:22AM]

Yeah because people just up and stopped buying cars once they found out that practically EVERY SINGLE CAR has lead acid batteries.

[Troublesome @ Jul 25th 2008 2:38PM]

Transform heat to energy? = Turbocharger...Pretty damn efficient already...

[matthew @ Jul 25th 2008 3:30PM]

i was thinking more along the lines of replacing the alternator. plus the turbocharger isn't really converting the heat to spin the turbine, its using the flow of gas from the exhaust to push air into the intake