http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 5:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/M]]>Aug 26th 2008 5:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 7:09AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 12:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 4:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 4:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/
The human eye can't even distinguish between 120fps and 60fps, so the point of 120hz for gaming is basically moot. 120hz is great for watching DVD's or Blu-Ray discs since 120 is a multiple of 24, and thus you don't need to use any pulldown like you would with your 60hz TV. For gaming though? Meh.


Waste of money for gaming. Great if you watch a ton of movies.]]>Aug 27th 2008 8:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/

No, that is not true the human eye can tell the difference. There is no such thing as "fps" to our eyes.
"The Human Eye perceives information continuously, we do not perceive the world through frames. You could say we perceive the external visual world through streams, and only lose it when our eyes blink." http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html
It depends on a individuals conscious ability to "perceive", which requires manual processing from the brain, the world is still streaming into our eyes. There are a few special people in the world who have the ability to accurately reproduce an image from very quick motions. Normal people can still perceive high refresh rates but may not have the cognitive ability to extract single images from a motion, but they certainly can see fluidity of motion, which is what refresh rate affects.
You can in fact distinguish 60hz and 120hz or almost any refresh rate for that matter. However, it depends on what "distinguishing means" If it means to perceive every frame individually like in a slide show then around 30hz-60hz would be quick enough to allow perceived motion. (It still depends on what source the image is from, CRT's phosphor glow creates a persistence effect in the eye so that part of an image will stay long enough for the entire frame to be drawn) Distinguishing fluidity of motion, on the other hand, is much different:
The real world around us provides "infinite" fps (really though, no such thing as fps )
All our display technologies are FAR from what real life can provide.
Rendering, Recording, and Display technologies all work upon the same principle of sampling at specific intervals of time.
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/TempRate.mspx (scroll to "Flat-panel displays have a sample-and-hold characteristic")

"All of the newer display technologies such as LCD, plasma, DLP, and so on, have essentially a sample-and-hold characteristic. When a pixel is addressed, it is loaded with a value and stays at that light output value until it is next addressed. From an image portrayal point of view, this is the wrong thing to do. The sample of the original scene is ONLY VALID FOR AN INSTANT IN TIME. After that instant, the objects in the scene will have moved to DIFFERENT places. It is not valid to try to hold the images of the objects at a fixed position until the next sample comes along that portrays the object as having instantly jumped to a completely different place.

Your eye tracking will be trying to smoothly follow the movement of the object of interest and the display will be holding it in a fixed position for the whole frame. The result will inevitably be a blurred image of the moving object."

"Leaving aside the temporal rate conversion difficulties, displays with a sample-and-hold characteristic, such as LCD and plasma, would PRODUCE BETTER MOTION PORTRAYAL if operated at rates ABOVE 60Hz. Flat panels are normally run at 60Hz, because it is PERCEIVED that this is all you need to do since there is no flicker problem. The REALITY is that a faster update rate would be beneficial in order to reduce the blurring effect associated with the sample-and-hold characteristic. Pixels with a sample-and-hold characteristic effectively extend what should have been an instantaneous sample into a constant value that lasts for a whole frame. The result of this is motion smearing. This smearing is reduced if you can update the sample and hold circuits more often with new sample values."

The problem is that real life gives us infinite fps so only by approaching infinite fps or a very very high fps can realistic perceived motion be achieved. Sure at 60 fps we can see that it's motion but compared to 120 fps, it's much less smooth.

Oh and while i'm at it, response time:
Most of the manufacture quoted response times are false, I don't feel like getting into that but the only review website that reviews monitors scientifically by measuring response times is xbitlabs.
They also measure real contrast ratios,brightness, color gamuts and backlight uniformity.
As for response time I am amazed that it can vary so differently depending on what grays are changing to what other grays.. namely somewhere around 256 different response times.. check it out..
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/19inch-12_2.html

Just to note:
I also am very glad that my laptops can be set way over 60hz. Thank you LVDS Signaling! I enjoy the smoothest video from my games.
the way laptops interface with the monitor allows manual configuration of timings unlike Desktop monitors which are already using a lcd controller that interfaces with DVI to your graphics card. Subsequently, it will not allow as much flexibility (>75hz refresh rate)
It seems that it works with most modern laptops with nvidia graphics cards, some ati if you use powerstrip
Toshiba satellite 1805-s254 xga 13.3" Trident Cyberblade xp Ai1: 94.8hz @ 1024x768
Toshiba Tecra m3 xga 14.1" geforce go 6200-6600: 100hz @ 1024x768 (more introduces occasional sync loss that causes "flickering")
Asus V6J sxga+ 15.1" geforce go 7400: 100hz @ 1400x1050 (can handle up to ~150hz but with major color distortion)
IBM thinkpad T61p nvidia quadro 570m sxga+ 14.1": 150 @ 1400x1050 (At this refresh rate, there are very very feint yellow lines on very dark colors, black etc)
google for "100 hz refresh rate v6j" first link.

this 120hz from these tv manufacturers are getting on my nerves.. i want my real refresh rate..
]]>Aug 28th 2008 2:25AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 5:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 5:25AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/
And speakerless.]]>Aug 26th 2008 5:35AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 9:43AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 10:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 10:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 10:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 1:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 6:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/
That said you would need one monster video card setup to do stereoscopic at 1080p@120hz in newer games, and wanting to run games at the native lcd resolution is kind of a requirement if you want them to look good, so 1680x1050 is actually good for a gaming monitor, not so good for a hd tv set though, but what would be the point of watching 24/30fps blu-ray on a 120hz screen.]]>Aug 26th 2008 6:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/the point would be correct multiple. 30fps x 4 = 120fps (perfect display of signal) or 24fps x 5 = 120fps (perfect display of signal again).
the world of 60fps lcd hurts my eyes. i still own my sony crt just for the insane refreshes i can have in it.]]>Aug 26th 2008 9:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 10:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 6:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 10:19AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 5:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 10:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 6:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/
Guess Lucasfilm wouldn't let them use Leia]]>Aug 26th 2008 7:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 7:32AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 7:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 9:24AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/
I wonder where did Sammy go..]]>Aug 26th 2008 8:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 8:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 8:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/I dont however believe this monitor supports it, and thats what we all want really. 120 frames per second monitors.
BFI or even more elaborate 120hz motion treatment like in lcd tvs is not something i need pc monitor.
I want 120 real unique frames, mostly for simulations, where at 250 or 300kmh , one frame step represents a lot of space.]]>Aug 26th 2008 9:28AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/
Feel betrayed? Yes I did but it was made worse by the monitor developing a green tint over year later, was sent a refurbished replacement which died a year after that.

ViewSonic ain't worth s*** when it comes to quality.]]>Aug 26th 2008 9:13AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 9:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 10:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 27th 2008 11:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/viewsonic: dragon showing products]]>Aug 26th 2008 10:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/
What many people don't realize is that dual link DVI doesn't even have the bandwidth to transfer 120hz..................................................]]>Aug 26th 2008 9:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface#Specifications

It even has the capacity in single link mode. Double that, and last time I checked, if you meet a requirement and then double what you have, you still meet said requirement.]]>Aug 26th 2008 3:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/
Example display modes (dual link):

* QXGA (2048 × 1536) @ 75 Hz with GTF blanking (2×170 MHz)
* HDTV (1920 × 1080) @ 85 Hz with GTF blanking (2×126 MHz)
* WQXGA (2560 × 1600) @ 60 Hz with GTF blanking (2x174 MHz) (30" Apple, Dell, Gateway, HP, NEC, Quinux, and Samsung LCDs)
* WQXGA (2560 × 1600) @ 60 Hz with CVT-RB blanking (2x135 MHz) (30" Apple, Dell, Gateway, HP, NEC, Quinux, and Samsung LCDs)
* WQUXGA (3840 × 2400) @ 33 Hz with GTF blanking (2x159 MHz)

At the res of that monitor, you're not going to get anywhere near 120hz]]>Aug 26th 2008 9:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 3:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/Aug 26th 2008 7:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/26/viewsonic-shows-off-a-120hz-lcd-display-for-computers/
Even on the wikipedia page you pasted from, 1600x1200 @ 60hz is listed as supported by single link DVI (and 1600x1200 is more pixels than 1680x1050.)

120hz LCD's are huge step in the right direction for competitive FPS players. Very happy to see this announcement and props to Viewsonic.]]>Aug 28th 2008 11:41AM