http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/ Engadget Comments for Judge rules probable cause of criminal activity needed to get cell location data http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
That is of course if I was a criminal, but I always keep a burner cell with 40 minutes on it, "just in case."
]]>Sep 12th 2008 8:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
(Anyone else a fan of The Wire?)]]>Sep 12th 2008 9:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
eggonthewaffle! - First thing I thought was The Wire. Best show on earth.]]>Sep 12th 2008 9:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 9:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 9:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 11:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 11:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 13th 2008 4:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 8:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/But that's just a guess.]]>Sep 12th 2008 9:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 8:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 13th 2008 3:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 8:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 9:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 9:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 9:17PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
I hate paranoia...]]>Sep 12th 2008 9:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 9:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Well said.]]>Sep 12th 2008 10:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
Some people just have too much time on their hands. :)

It's not that if you're not doing anything illegal then you have nothing to hide, but seriously, that's an awful lot of work to go through if you're doing nothing embarassing/illegal. That's taking it a bit to the extreme. And if a person really thinks the government is out to get them, then 1) they are/should be or 2) they have a really inflated sense of self-importance.]]>Sep 12th 2008 11:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/]]>Sep 12th 2008 11:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 11:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/You probably have a few cams and mics in your room as you type.
Of course they will be very disappointed when they discover that all you do is watch some tv, do a bit of internets, eat some food and have an occasional wank.]]>Sep 13th 2008 12:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
I hate paranoia..."

Maybe you missed something we call the Digital Information Age? No one HAS to care about you or spend any real time to hunt you down with an efficient database system in place. The second you become a threat (say you participate in an anti-government protest, become a political figure in an opposing party, or any number of other reasons) they have instant access to all the detailed information they want.

Remember, information is power. The more information an institution possesses, the more power it holds over you and I. There is no guarantee that any institution, even our government, will use this information in our best interest.]]>Sep 13th 2008 12:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
as far as tracking mobiles. just seems stupid. You have no legal way of tieing them to a person. I mean it might be a company phone. It might be a lost phone. You might've given someone your phone. It may have been stolen. There is a 1000 possibilities.]]>Sep 12th 2008 9:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
They just have to look at who you've been talking to to see if it's stolen or not. And it's generally obvious. People who steal phones will probably get rid of the SIM straight away so it won't be calling your contacts. Plus of course if you don't report it as stolen, especially if it's a contract, then it's pretty obvious that you're still in possession.]]>Sep 12th 2008 10:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 11:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 9:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 9:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 9:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 12th 2008 11:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
It's nice that the police can't be tracking your position just because they feel like it, now they can be held accountable for it and that's a pretty bare minimum of a standard that I think we can all live with.]]>Sep 12th 2008 11:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
It's nice how you lumped those two concepts in there together. They are NOT the same thing. The right to privacy is NOT invoked only by criminals. Some of us would just like to keep our personal affairs personal and not worry about some organization or stranger having our activities, habits, and daily routines tracked and recorded.

You can't label it paranoia when the tracking is actually occurring. It then becomes a righteous anger over infringed rights and undermined autonomy.
]]>Sep 13th 2008 12:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 13th 2008 12:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
Why? Proxies aren't hard to use. Who knows what sites he's visiting?
I've seen numerous cases where sites have been forced by courts to render IP addresses to other entities. A recent case is Ninja Hacker, a fan mod site for Tecmo games that got into a legal battle and was forced to settle. Not to mention the recent Youtube debacle.

Here's the best one:
Archive.org was ordered by the FBI to disclose the personal information of one of their browsers (under the almighty Patriot Act, of course) WITHOUT ANY form of warrant or probable cause. On top of this, archive.org was given a gag order saying that if they revealed the order to anyone but their lawyers, they would be found guilty of treason. Thankfully, archive.org sued and the case was quickly settled; the FBI was horrified of the case even going to court.
Hundreds of these orders go out every year. Less than ten have ever been reported. Doesn't that make you feel safe?

The point is, had archive.org complied and the victim was un-proxied, he's screwed.]]>Sep 13th 2008 12:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
OK I'll sign this straightaway then.]]>Sep 13th 2008 1:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 13th 2008 2:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
The only way, from the network side, to determine a mobile's position is to know its distance from at least two base stations at once. Now with GSM being a TDMA system, it's important to know the distance to the mobile so it can compensate for c and get its reply in it's own time slot, so the distance from the tower it's communicating with is always known. Additionally, mobiles contact other stations nearby, to prepare for a handoff as they go from one to the next. At the handoff, at least, contact must be made with the two towers, or the call will drop; if there's good coverage, there's more overlap, so there's a larger section where the position may be determined.

But it all falls down to analyzing the logged data for distance info and bi/trilateration to get the position. The issue is not whether or not they have to do the trilateration, it's whether or not they can get the logged data with distance info. (Or, more likely, demand that the network operator do the trilateration for them, and give them position data; same thing in effect, though.)

As for "with the battery in, but phone off", it may depend on the phone, but most cannot be tracked that way. If the mobile could transmit anything to the base station when off, you'd be required to take the batteries out of your mobile when flying. ;-)]]>Sep 13th 2008 4:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
]]>Sep 13th 2008 7:09AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
Please, understand what exactly the role of Engadget is. There is no reason for a blog to make sanctimonious "Fuck The Man" posts.

Anyone who is smart enough to understand the significance of this sort of announcement doesn't need to hear it from a site they go to to get (admittedly well done) updates on the newest iPods.]]>Sep 13th 2008 1:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 13th 2008 9:15AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/
-------

If you dump your cell phone in a trash can at a crowded area, they'll be chasing ghosts all day.]]>Sep 13th 2008 10:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 13th 2008 12:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 13th 2008 10:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/judge-rules-probable-cause-of-criminal-activity-needed-to-get-ce/Sep 13th 2008 12:33PM