http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:09AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/]]>Sep 25th 2008 6:00AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 6:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 6:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 6:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 8:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 8:57AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 8:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/translation: not finding shit]]>Sep 25th 2008 4:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 6:38AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 7:57AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:19AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://emdrive.com/images/fig01.jpg

Oh wow, first diagram that I can understand.]]>Sep 25th 2008 5:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 10:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:25AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 12:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 1:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 6:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 6:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/
Yeah it's true that production is a source of wealth. Someone once told me about an article he read which said that the only two ways to create true new wealth is manufacturing and agriculture. I don't know who said this but I believe it. By exporting our manufacturing capabilities we are bankrupting our country. Bring it home.]]>Sep 25th 2008 10:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 6:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/
Since production is the source of prosperity, I'd say if we were indeed making that wrench we wouldn't be in this shit-hole. ]]>Sep 25th 2008 7:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/

The constant drone of "America sucks" is all the rage on teh internets. It isn't enough that everyone else hates us, we have to hate ourselves. I'm completely fucking sick of it.

Yeah it's true that production is a source of wealth. Someone once told me about an article he read which said that the only two ways to create true new wealth is manufacturing and agriculture. I don't know who said this but I believe it. By exporting our manufacturing capabilities we are bankrupting our country. Bring it home.
]]>Sep 25th 2008 10:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Bush has been a total disaster! The Iraq war was completely unnecessary, led to the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians, and people are now realizing just how costly it is going to be in financial terms -- in the range of $600-800 BILLION by the end of it. Bush destroyed American credibility and moral standing in the world, disrespected all of our friends and allies, and cost the nation hundreds of billions in tax cuts to corporations and the top 1%. Due to the apathy and laziness of most of America, they let him basically shred the constitution and the bill of rights, and throw out the basic principles and foundations of country. He led a vast expansion of the executive branch and domestic security agencies and continuously pushed to evade proper judicial and legislative oversight. There are many examples of this abuse of power, from the dragnet domestic surveillance to abusing executive privilege, abusing presidential signing statements, abusing national security letters, trying to revoke the rights afforded by the Geneva conventions, politicizing and corrupting the justice department, attempting to skirt executive oversight and keep material out of the national archives, secret meetings on energy and domestic policy, illegitimate editing and manipulation of foreign intelligence in the vice presidents office, the politicization and manipulation of the EPA, NASA, NIH and other national scientific and medical agencies in order to fit right-wing ideology, etc. And now you can add partial responsibility for the financial crisis, in addition to the rest of the "free market" republicans, for fifteen years of banking deregulation that got us into this mess..
]]>Sep 26th 2008 2:38AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 5:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/I say to those of you boosting your egos by trampling another's works, "Dude, cut that shit out and let them build it!"]]>Sep 25th 2008 5:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/
Actually looking at the paper Shawyer published in newscience here:
http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/av/shawyertheory.pdf
and looking at figure 2.4 there is a problem immediately apparent here. This figure shows the path of a wave bouncing off the walls of the waveguide and what should be the force addition below. What is missing here is the force imparted on the side walls towards the right. This force will balance out the "thrust" force that is supposed to make this thing work. Instead of microwaves think of it in terms of particles; the addition of forces bouncing off the walls is what causes pressure. If you were to make a conical shaped pressure chamber and pressurize it would you expect it to suddenly start moving?
]]>Sep 25th 2008 7:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/
Actually looking at the paper Shawyer published in newscience here:
http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/av/shawyertheory.pdf

and looking at figure 2.4 there is a problem immediately apparent here. This figure shows the path of a wave bouncing off the walls of the waveguide and what should be the force addition below. What is missing here is the force imparted on the side walls towards the right. This force will balance out the "thrust" force that is supposed to make this thing work. Instead of microwaves think of it in terms of particles; the addition of forces bouncing off the walls is what causes pressure. If you were to make a conical shaped pressure chamber and pressurize it would you expect it to suddenly start moving?
]]>Sep 25th 2008 7:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/
It's not about particles hitting the walls, it's about the phase velocity of the EM radiation, and how it is altered by the shape of the cone to create a greater radiation pressure at one end which results in a thrust force. The maths is beyond me but working models have been demonstrated and this thing is genuine.

Try to think less in terms of particles and more in terms of waves and equations cos that's where the real interesting physics is.]]>Sep 25th 2008 8:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 26th 2008 2:28AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/
Physicist chiming in here:
You are 100% correct! This EXACT idea has been proposed before and the math indeed does work out that there is no net force.

Think of it like this (for laymen); you have two triangles. One with the vertexes (0,0), (1,0), (0.5, 0.5) and the second with vertexes (0,0), (1,0), and (5,0.5). They look radically different - but have the same area! This is the same principal behind why this machine will not work - infinitesimally thin layers stacked on top of each other were shifted to the right to change the shape of those two triangles, but the area was the same. Just like that, look at two circles, flat on the table next to each other and the same diameter. If you were to cut one into three concentric rings and a circle within it, then lift those up to mimic a cone shape, they would still have the same area. Do that an infinite number of times and it is still the same. THAT is what is happening here, and is fundamentally incorrect!

The two acting surfaces are one big circle, and one small circle with a cone around it. The forces involved will always balance because by bouncing off of the cone, it imparts a force which numerically, mathematically, through calculus, through experiment, and through any other method; will ALWAYS EXACTLY counter that of the other circle.

China made shit up - yet again.]]>Sep 26th 2008 10:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.steorn.com/]]>Sep 25th 2008 5:55AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Nice link: 42 seconds on the website and one word comes to mind: BULLSHIT ]]>Sep 25th 2008 6:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/shawyerfraud.pdf
]]>Sep 25th 2008 6:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 7:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/
He certainly knows the least, the loudest.]]>Sep 25th 2008 9:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/
This is tending towards infinitely improbable indeed...]]>Sep 25th 2008 6:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://emdrive.com/images/engine.jpg]]>Sep 25th 2008 6:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/Sep 25th 2008 6:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/25/china-takes-the-leap-emdrive-aka-infinite-improbability-drive-n/
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/12/31/MNGCC4137N1.DTL
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