Megapixel race hits the mobile realm

When the megapixel race unofficially started in the point-and-shoot world, it didn't take long before every last camera manufacturer out there was cramming 14-megapixel sensors into any ole pocket cam. Now, it seems the same race is headed to the mobile realm. Of late, we've seen a new batch of 8-megapixel handsets and a 9-megapixel sensor, and a recent interview with LG's sales and marketing director John Barton points to even more of those in the near future. According to him, "the megapixel race that we saw amongst camera makers is now being battled out between mobile manufacturers," hinting that 10+ megapixel phones (not to mention handsets with HD video capability) are closer than we may have imagined. Mmm, the possibilities.

[Via Cell Phone Feeds]

[Sudha Narasimhan @ Sep 28th 2008 8:33AM]

Now I wonder how long we will have to wait until we see a 10 MP camera with HD video on the iPhone.

[Rauha @ Sep 28th 2008 9:06AM]

Considering that iPhone has by far the worst camera in smartphone market (only 2 megapixel camera and absolutely no video shooting capability). Hmmm maybe in 2015?

[Taylor @ Sep 28th 2008 10:00AM]

The iPhone will never be a phone bought for its camera.

Apple never had expertise in making cameras.

[Amz @ Sep 28th 2008 10:26AM]

Nice save Taylor, good to see you got Apple's back.

[holycow @ Sep 28th 2008 10:43AM]

And Nokia has tons of expertise in making cameras now, doesn't it ?

[bob @ Sep 28th 2008 10:52AM]

would rather a good lense and sensor race

[asg84 @ Sep 28th 2008 10:56AM]

i think in 2015 , iphone will have bluetooth file sharing. or who knows apple also will be in chapter 11 by that time if they continue fooling people continuously hehe :)

[Titanium man @ Sep 28th 2008 11:31AM]

@Taylor:
Say what?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_QuickTake

Although, seriously:
Apple will come up with a high megapixel iphone sooner rather than later.
I mean ... They are a lifestyle brand! Not microsoft!
They definitely know lg and samsung will release android phones with 8 megapixel cameras next year.
The current 2 mp iphone will probably stay as the entry level model and they will probably introduce a higher end iphone.. the iphone photo! that will do video and have a better camera.
Then they could reduce costs by using the same module for a high end ipod touch. The ipod touch photo!!!

[ILoveApple @ Sep 28th 2008 11:56AM]

Well, Nokia ARE the number one camera manufacturer in the world. Yes, they sell more cameras than Sony, Nikon, Canon and others.

[dandaman @ Sep 28th 2008 12:28PM]

@Taylor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/quicktake/

Early digital camera. Didn't sell because it was all film at the time.

[puhsitch @ Sep 28th 2008 2:21PM]

@Rauha: to be fair to the camera, it's Apple's lack of software that prevents it from doing video. And the quality of the photos actually isn't that bad if you're okay with 2 megapixel resolution.

[UnixSystemsEngineer @ Sep 28th 2008 4:52PM]

The iPhone's camera is plenty high-res for the sensor size.

What we need is a lens race (for those who actually care about the camera in their phone). Seriously, 1600x1200 is pretty damn high resolution, it'll meet most needs short of trying to enlarge sections. It's being held back by the sensor, as is the case on most cameraphones.

If picture quality is a priority, you're going to have to get a camera phone with a more unweildy body, not just look for the highest MP sensor in the specs.

[Smileypanda @ Sep 28th 2008 4:59PM]

Seriously, why megapixels? You can get a good picture with like 2 megapixels with good optics.

[thebigDallas @ Sep 28th 2008 6:24PM]

i wish my treo's camera was as good as an iphone's

[konshuss @ Sep 28th 2008 9:55PM]

with a lens like that, getting a girl's phone number could most definitely open the door to an 'is that your cameraphone or are you happy to see me?' moment.

[James @ Sep 28th 2008 8:52AM]

Who cares for a godamn 14 MP camera, just make the sensors better for more realistic resolutions.

[Vagrant @ Sep 28th 2008 10:09AM]

Indeed. Sensors and lenses. Light and clarity.
One would think that camera phones will eventually catch up to the point and shoot camera. This would make my life easier instead of carrying both every day.

To all of the comments about it replacing a DSLR, I suggest you purchase a DSLR in the first place and take it off of the 'Auto' mode. Get yourself a few lenses and definitely, take a class, or two.

Camera phones will always be just that. A convenience.
(Mine embeds the GPS lat/long in the EXIF information)

[JohnTitor @ Sep 28th 2008 12:44PM]

there should be a way to measure how good a sensor is cause too many people think higher megapixel value means the phone takes better photos

[avester @ Sep 28th 2008 2:31PM]

I am only interested about the megapixels when the photos don't look all crappy and disorted even on the 320x240 screen of the phone.

[Wwhat @ Sep 29th 2008 11:06AM]

A sensor can be great john and then a plastic 0.01" lens will not make great pictures with it, there's a lot involved with a good digital camera, lens, sensor, and also good processing, there are many cameras that use the same sensor and even equal lens quality but still have huge differences in output due to the chip and firmware used to process the sensordata.
I think it would be damn hard to make a universal quality indicator, you'll just have to go by reviews or hearsay I fear.

[Christy McGrory @ Sep 28th 2008 8:52AM]

The First True Camera-Phone is nigh.

[Iain @ Sep 28th 2008 10:07AM]

No, not if manufacturers are only cramming in more pixels.
A camera is more than just the number of pixels.

It's like saying that a P'n'S camera can become a D-SLR just from shoving a 20MP sensor into it, it's a ridiculous statement.

[JohnTitor @ Sep 28th 2008 9:49PM]

disagree, I would consider the Sony Ericcson Cybershot, and high end Nokia N series good camera phones
and out in Asia samsung got phones will crazy cameras

[Johan S @ Sep 28th 2008 8:54AM]

You know what, instead of megapixels .. we need to push makers to one of the standards for image quality. So they can advertise the camera performance taking a standard scene that has movement (so that a long exposure would blur that part of the scene), colors, and lighting variation. Basically a picture that is taken of a standard lit colorful scene (that has with various fine grid patterns that are lit up/shadowed differently).. and then a rating of how close to reality the captured picture is.

So if you capture it at 10 megapixels .. but with lots of noise you may get say .. 60 points.

But a 2 megapixel capture of the same scene with the correct range and without noise may get say 75 points.

Then .. camera makers can compete and sell their cameras on how well their cameras .. sort of like how cpu's compete with each other based on spec bench or 3D mark.

Ok, why wont the guys at DPreview take a lead on this one? ..They have the equipment and expertise.

[Samboini @ Sep 28th 2008 10:31AM]

I'm not disagreeing here (I back your above statement), but how would you define the standard for a picture? Won't peoples opinions always be slightly different regarding what looks best compared to real life etc? Or are there already systems which cover this issue?

[Johan S @ Sep 28th 2008 2:53PM]

@Samboini

The scene capture analysis and assigning of points won't be up to a human .. there is no subjectivity involved. For example if the scene has certain colors and luminance these can be measured accurately with a photometer or even a spectrophotometer. And image analysis can be used in a non subjective manner for stuff like determining if the resolving power can separate out lines on a grid pattern.

The only part that is subjective is what weightings to give (is the color reproduction more importation that resolving power?) .. That will have to be determined way in advance by a group of experts (that's how spec and 3D Mark work anyway).

[Shan @ Sep 28th 2008 9:00AM]

Someone may want to wake up Apple!

[Some Kid @ Sep 28th 2008 9:12AM]

cant there be a phone story without bringing up the iPhone
please- just for this once

[nDee @ Sep 28th 2008 9:14AM]

It's possible...
before Engadget born.

[Nuclear Fire @ Sep 28th 2008 9:01AM]

Awesome. Now my grainy, atonal, blurry cam shots can take up even more room on my hard drive. Maybe I can get RAW too while we're at it.

How about upping the lens and sensor quality first?

[Shinigami @ Sep 28th 2008 9:58AM]

Samsung i8510 has better image quality than Nokia N82, 8mp vs 5mp. So they do increase image quality with pixel count. At least sometimes.

[asg84 @ Sep 28th 2008 10:50AM]

nokia n82 take best shots at night, no blurred pics 99,99% times, its xenon flasher makes it even to a normal digital cam

[Andre @ Sep 28th 2008 11:48AM]

@Shinigami:
Yeah, sometimes they increase picture quality together, while increasing the pixel count, but that's not the most common.
Actually, many updates within a single line, increasing pixel count, increase also the number of pixels per centimeter, what makes the sensor receive even less light and creates more and more noise in higher resolutions.

[L.Rawlins @ Sep 28th 2008 9:06AM]

None of my colleagues in the office who I've discussed this with could care less about megapixels at this point. An A4 sheet of paper is the largest they'd ever print it on at home and for presentation on a digital photo frame the size of the displayed image is likely to be even smaller.

What we want now is optical (real) zoom, and Xenon (real) flashes to be standard on devices that tout themselves as 'camera phones'. A lot of us even avoid mobile phones with setups that don't feature Xenon flashes. Which culls an extraordinary amount of the market.

[King Mustard @ Sep 28th 2008 9:10AM]

I'm certainly one of those. The Nokia N82 has the best Xenon flash at the moment, followed by the Sony Ericsson K850. It doesn't leave many others...

[Shinigami @ Sep 28th 2008 9:56AM]

Then what about me? My 30-inch 2560x1600 digital photo frame (I call my monitor that way) shows great images with great detail. Under one condition, though - it has to be a 10-megapixel image (my digital point-and-shoot has 10mp and it really looks far superior compared to older 4mp point-and-shoot). 5mp doesn't look half as good. Interpolation gives more detail.
But I have to agree - we have to stick to 10-mp and increase quality, add optical zoom ect. I hope phone makers will follow this way in 2009.

[thedesolate1 @ Sep 28th 2008 10:50AM]

I think they didnt put xenon flash on the N85 so it wont compete with the N82. I am little disappointed. I just hope they didn't remove the VOIP like on the n96.

[2fast4u2fast4u @ Sep 28th 2008 9:12AM]

I say about 5 years until mobile phones replace music players and cameras altogether.

[daniel =] @ Sep 28th 2008 9:22AM]

and gps navigators?

[pridgo21 @ Sep 28th 2008 9:35AM]

Music players maybe, but i don't think that digital cameras will be fully replaced with camera-phones, point n' shoot can be a posibility but you can't stick a DSLR lens on a phone, also if they want to do that, they must improve the quality of the sensors & the quality of the pictures (without offending your comment [not very good with english])

[Ashwin @ Sep 28th 2008 10:18AM]

Until they create better desktop sync utilities, I don't think there is even the slightest chance of that happening. The iPhone and Blackberry are the only ones that have it completely right thus far. Cameras on phones also have to get better. The iPhone camera, despite being only 2 MP and lacking flash and zoom, has by far the highest quality image sensor I have ever seen on a phone, and it still has a ways to go.
I don't think MP3 players will be replaced by phones until DRM goes away completely or Apple liscences FairPlay to the phone companies. GPS will simply require better hardware for phones and software from Garmin.

[Samboini @ Sep 28th 2008 10:59AM]

I hope you are working on a supremely advanced battery then! An all in one device will rape power.

[kadajawi @ Sep 28th 2008 7:31PM]

@Ashwin: lol, I hope your being sarcastic. There are few camera phones that are worse than the iPhone.

And to those who think camera phones can't be serious... just look at that beast on the picture for this post. It's quite old already, but the image quality is on par with regular point and shoot cameras, probably because it has the lens and the sensor of a regular point and shoot. You can even add tele- and wide angle converters as well as filters (probably). But it was horribly expensive and isn't exactly compact. But imagine one of those Sony T series cameras, with phone functionality (and touchscreen?).

[Str1ker @ Sep 28th 2008 9:29AM]

No matter how good phone cameras get, ordinary cameras will always be one step ahead.

Fact is, if you want to take proper photos you'll need a proper ordinary camera, and it will remain that why for a while.

[jupiterthunder @ Sep 28th 2008 11:08AM]

That's like saying the pics taken with a quality cam now are not proper. Granted, the bar is always being raised, but if you can take a pic today and be pleased and satisfied with the quality, then this same quality should be acceptable from a camera phone. So, even if it is achieved, but remains a step behind what is being done with dedicated cameras, why would it not be good enough?

[Ricardo @ Sep 28th 2008 9:29AM]

So, now we will have 10 million blurry pixels to waste processing time and storage space. Yay!

[dcoaster @ Sep 28th 2008 9:35AM]

HD video capture would be nice, BUT the manufacturers actually have to include more than 256MB of storage space in order to actually record for some decent amount of time. Don't rely on external flash memory, INCLUDE IT!

[Shinigami @ Sep 28th 2008 9:51AM]

You're even crazier than you think. 2gb card costs around $10 here. Just get 8gb and your battery will die long before you can fill up half of that space with HD video.

[Ricardo @ Sep 28th 2008 10:11AM]

Why do you think digital cameras don't have built in memory? Because if they did, people like you would always say it isn't enough. Besides, if they did it, they could break the memory card market.

Phone memory is supposed to hold programs, not media. If you want to store media you go and buy a memory card, which is soooo expensive, like the $30 I paid for a 8 gb MicroSD.

[dcoaster @ Sep 28th 2008 10:39AM]

So based on your suggestions, the iPhone is a failure because it does not even have the ability to expand its memory.

Included memory is always welcome... And next time you reply, lay off the personal attacks.