New MacBooks to be based on NVIDIA GeForce 9400 / 9300 chipsets?

With a new MacBook announcement now just days away, speculation is unsurprisingly at a fever pitch as to exactly what Apple has in store, and the folks at PC Perspective have now pieced together a few clues to whet your appetite in anticipation of the big event. Most of those are drawn from mounting evidence from the NVIDIA camp, including the image above that made an appearance on the company's website a few days ago and, most importantly, word that NVIDIA would be releasing its GeForce 9400 and 9300 chipsets based on the MCP79 integrated chipset design on October 15th (conveniently not stepping on Apple's toes the day before). The implication there being that the GeForce chipsets would replace the relatively underpowered integrated Intel graphics on the current MacBooks, with the new MacBook Pros supposedly getting an additional boost from a discrete G92-based mobility GeForce 9600. As PC Perspective points out, if true, that would be quite a coup for NVIDIA, especially considering that it wasn't all that long ago some were talking about it quitting the chipset business altogether.

[Murphy Mac @ Oct 10th 2008 6:09PM]

How about some hardware-based h.264 in the new Macs? That would get me to upgrade.

[SneAKz @ Oct 10th 2008 7:00PM]

MCP79 has hardware decoding of h.264. No more worrying about whether your MacBook can play 1080p although my early 2007 MacBook plays 1080p no prob with a GMA 950.

[v3xx @ Oct 10th 2008 8:02PM]

@sneakz

my may 2007 macbook with the gma 950 plays 1080 with no problems either. i can even play games with no issues. the newest civilization works perfetly at full res as does anything from blizzard. i've never had a game run slowly with the graphics chip. the computer actually runs hotter with flash games than games i run from the hard drive (disk utility to partition for games). my sister and i compared cold boots with my macbook and her brand new acer with higher specs. i have a 25 second boot and hers takes 2.5 minutes to even show the desktop (still heavy processing). i think operating system matters more than hardware. until you get really high end hardware at least.

[BowserUSC @ Oct 11th 2008 2:00AM]

At SneAKz and V3xx:

My late 2006 macbook with 950 can't handle any games so I really don't know what you two are talking about. WoW is pretty much the only game that works and I don't even play it. To name a few that I know don't work: C&C Generals, X2, SW: Jedi Academy. HD movies are pretty good but it encounters problems sometimes, and is never flawless.

[Mark Anderson @ Oct 11th 2008 4:14AM]

They need to do this, it's not optional. Mac hardware is already a generation behind the Windows OEMs so this is an absolute necessity.

[Muhammed @ Oct 10th 2008 6:13PM]

but will it run Crysis?

[patriotsn1 @ Oct 10th 2008 6:16PM]

Welcome back from your 4 year cryogenic sleep!

[Muhammed @ Oct 10th 2008 6:34PM]

crysis

[Brandon @ Oct 10th 2008 6:15PM]

Actually, out of all the rumors Ive heard so far, this one makes the most sense. Apple really dropped the ball on the MacBooks with those shitty integrated Intel graphics chips. Even without adding anything else to the Macbook, I think this makes it closer to being worth the current price, and if the rumors of them being cheaper is true, then that just sweetens the deal.

[EmoChicksAreHot.....Seriously @ Oct 11th 2008 12:51AM]

I second that statement.

[Jeff @ Oct 10th 2008 6:14PM]

Actually its good to see Macs getting some ... and I do mean some... gaming power all around instead of just the Pros...

[Andy TGD @ Oct 11th 2008 5:45AM]

Yeah, well hopefully this will go *part* of the way towards justifying the outrageous price-tag for a glorified fashion item.

[Raunak @ Oct 11th 2008 2:23PM]

Actually, I think more than just gaming power, they're looking to increase all around performance, since Snow Leopard is supposed to have Grand Central that's going to allow it to use all the cores on all the processors in the computer including the GPU. So this upgrade is more about performance than gaming power.

[TheNetAvenger @ Oct 11th 2008 6:59PM]

>>gaming power

The chipsets they are using are better than what Apple has done before, but not what you would call gaming power. To this day, even their high end desktops are sub-level on graphics power compared to PCs.

(This is why I cringe when people still say Apple is great for graphics, as their hardware is horrid even for graphic designers, let alone gamers. Also with VIsta's composer that shoves AI and Photoshop design performance up, it is even more dramatic for graphic designers.)

Consider this, even the Geforce 9400 mobile chipset is slower than the Gefore 6800 mobile chipset that was shipping in 2004/2005.

So 3-4 years later, and they are still not offering credible graphics performance in their mobiles? Besides the overhead of OS X when it comes to gaming, when people wonder why there are not more Mac games, point your finger at Apple and their hardware choices.

The inconsistency in graphics on the Mac is also quite vast and one reason accelerated Quartz was finally killed and why Apple pushes to use SSE3 and other 'tricks' for things that normally the GPU would be doing. PS Yes, shoving Quartz through the 3D portion of the GPU was promised for a long time, and in theory designed for it, yet compatibility was the downfall. Even though it was optionally able to be turned on in 10.4 hurt performance or crashed the system.


Warning, the following is sliding off subject...

The irony to this is that Microsoft's Vista WDDM and AERO were able to provide a large core of 3D acceleration for even GDI/GDI+, font rendering, bitmap compression/decompression, in addition to the new Vista APIs without incident.

The entire Video system from drivers to everything that draws on the screen is using all new engines, but does it so seemlessly people don't realize how big of a step this was and how 'easy' Microsoft made it look, because it does work and act just like it did in XP 99.9% of the time. And remember it is even accelerating applications written for Windows 3.1.

And people still complain Vista isn't 'differen't enough different than XP for them to upgrade and also go on about how superior OS X is, when it is a generation behind Vista graphically.


Oh, and PS, Vista users STOP TURNING OFF AERO, it is pretty stuff, but turning it OFF SLOWS DOWN your system. If you don't like the Glass, turn off the transparency in the slider. Even running games 'in a windows' will often be faster with the DWM (Composer) Aero left on.

[Heshmati4 @ Oct 10th 2008 6:17PM]

Hopefully Apple takes that crappy integrated graphics out of the Macbook! I would love a 9300/9400 in a Macbook

[Ian @ Oct 10th 2008 6:58PM]

Now people can buy a MacBook, and not have to pay an additional $700 to get a graphics card put into a Mac laptop.

[THJ @ Oct 10th 2008 9:59PM]

I hear that. It's no fun paying the 700-1200$ gaming tax on a laptop (though the backlit keyboard is nice).

[._. @ Oct 12th 2008 6:02AM]

Actually, they are only switching from one brand of 'crappy integrated graphics' to another.

Bench speaks for itself. http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9300M-G.11359.0.html

[patriotsn1 @ Oct 10th 2008 6:17PM]

Is this the same NVIDIA that was responsible for the faulty Macbooks that are just now being addressed?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/10/apple-says-some-macbook-pros-hit-by-faulty-nvidia-chips/

[me @ Oct 10th 2008 6:21PM]

Yes, but do you think that a company that had to take a 200m write down and suffer bad press would make the same mistake twice?

[Jeff @ Oct 10th 2008 6:23PM]

No it's the other NVIDIA?

[patriotsn1 @ Oct 10th 2008 6:23PM]

No, I'm sure NVIDIA wouldn't make the same mistake twice... but why would apple make the same mistake twice by hiring the same company?

[patriotsn1 @ Oct 10th 2008 6:25PM]

@ Jeff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question

you learn something new everyday!

[Jeff @ Oct 10th 2008 6:37PM]

I understand that it was a rhetorical question. It is just kind of a D-bag move to post that on Engadget comment because we are all well aware of NVIDIA's recent hardware issues.

[patriotsn1 @ Oct 10th 2008 6:39PM]

Well.... all of us except apple, apparently...

[rick @ Oct 10th 2008 6:51PM]

As an owner of an "Early 2008 MacBook Pro" I'm pretty disappointed in this.

Nvidia's handled this situation with the same skill and deftness that the AIG guys have with their bailout money.

[Ian @ Oct 10th 2008 6:20PM]

now if we could get an upgrade for the people who currently have the shitty intel integrated graphics chips for a decent amount of money..

[rawhead @ Oct 10th 2008 6:54PM]

One thing I like about owning Macs is that if I wipe down my Macbook, take nice photos of it, and place it on Ebay, the price differential for buying a new Mac usually is low enough that it feels exactly like an "upgrade."

Speaking of which... time to start polishing my Macbook ;-)

[tcc3 @ Oct 10th 2008 9:52PM]

So what you're saying is people who buy Macs are suckers who are accustomed to overpaying.

Zing! =)

[rawhead @ Oct 12th 2008 9:12AM]

@tcc3

No, actually it simply means that Macs' market depreciation rate is much lower than competing brands. I'd thought that anybody frequenting Engadget would be familiar with this fact of nature, but perhaps you're new around here. ZOMG, ZING.


But seriously; I don't think that Macs are more expensive than other spec equivalent, name-brand PCs –– perhaps by a few percent. But, it really makes up for it when you know that 2 years down the line, you're going to be able to sell the $1000 Macbook off for $700, so long as you've taken good care of it. And that pretty much moots any argument that "Macs are expensive", at least for people like me who make it pretty much a law to abide by to upgrade their PCs at least every other year ;-)

[Thi mam(kris120890) @ Oct 10th 2008 6:23PM]

I would have expected more this time around. Something like 9700m GT's or 9650m GT's. Bit disappointed.

[Thi mam(kris120890) @ Oct 10th 2008 6:26PM]

Sorry I meant 9700 GT's/9800GT's Macbook pro and 9650 GT's for the Macbook.

[dagamer34 @ Oct 10th 2008 6:35PM]

MacBook Pro's run hot enough already. Plus, that increase in GPU power isn't worth the loss of battery life and the bulk from the fans needed to cool the chips.

[Joseph @ Oct 10th 2008 10:00PM]

@dagamer34 I don't know the exact specs, but depending on the chip, it may run with less power and cooler but perform better.

[loosely_coupled @ Oct 11th 2008 5:38AM]

There are no confirmations about anything... just rumors.. and I would agree. the 9600GT is basically identical to the 8600GT with a faster clock speed... I sure hope it's a 9700GT+..

[highspeedhamish @ Oct 10th 2008 6:24PM]

Wow, maybe you can run Monkey Island, Escape From Monkey Island and Quake in full res. Oh and WOW....

Did I miss any Mac games?

[Seph2409 @ Oct 10th 2008 6:28PM]

Yeah, how about every modern PC game, run under boot camp + every mac-only game. That actually equals more games than a PC.

[L.M.L.Y.P @ Oct 10th 2008 7:08PM]

unlike running every pc game.. on a windows machine. no dual boot needed.
people always use that defense. " you can just dual boot" or i can just use my PC for games music and video.
While Mac owners look for jobs at the local starbucks... just had to, sorry :(

[Hamidxa @ Oct 10th 2008 8:07PM]

You missed Zork, in all of its 8 bit glory, now with AA and AF!

Oh, and L.M.L.Y.P, spot on, spot on.

[Hamidxa @ Oct 10th 2008 8:14PM]

On a more serious note:

Seph, get real.

Anyone remotely serious about gaming on a PC will never, I repeat, never rely on a Mac to deliver that gaming experience.

The hardware is always playing catchup to its PC counterpart, video card releases are always 1-2 generations behind, the hardware itself is not always supported (be it a chipset problem or audio driver problem or even Apple based drivers for the GPU) -- problems are always going to crop up more often.

It's simply not worth the hassle to dual boot an inferior Mac just to play games when you could build a gaming PC that can always be upgraded months and in some cases 1-2 years before the Mac gets a comparable GPU to compete with it, and for fractions of the price when self-built.

O.K., now carry on with your optimistic thinking...

[chickenator @ Oct 10th 2008 8:48PM]

@Hamidxa,
yeah go upgrade your Acer notbook, and be quiet in your mom basement.

[bokuwaomar @ Oct 10th 2008 8:58PM]

@Hamidxa:

You're certainly right that Macs (especially the desktops) are generally behind in terms of graphical capability compared to similarly priced Windows PC's, so it makes more sense to buy/build PC's if games are your #1 concern. However, I'd advise you not to use the word inferior (or superior for that matter) lightly. It just makes you seem arrogant.

[Kelmon @ Oct 11th 2008 6:22AM]

@Hamidxa

I hate to piss on your chips, but you do know we are talking about notebooks here, don't you? By all means criticize the hardware in a Mac laptop but don't suggest that you could build better. However, I do agree that Boot Camp is typically more hassle than it is worth so it is up to the individual to decide how much gaming is important as to whether Boot Camp is acceptable. I play PC games very infrequently so Boot Camp is fine for Dawn of War once a month or so. If you want to play games all the time then a Windows-based laptop would be recommended.

[JT @ Oct 11th 2008 11:10AM]

@Hamidxa...get out of your cave. Its hardware a few generations behind? Try opening your eyes and look.

[Jeff @ Oct 10th 2008 6:26PM]

I have heard there is an upgrade process. It involves putting your Macbook in the microwave for 5 minutes.

[rahul @ Oct 10th 2008 6:41PM]

Thanks that worked. I now have a Macbook Brick.

[aard @ Oct 10th 2008 7:01PM]

That must be a big microwave :D

[Brandon @ Oct 10th 2008 6:35PM]

well most rumors so far have included stuff about a price cut.

[bokuwaomar @ Oct 10th 2008 6:38PM]

It's thin and metallic but it has a screen latch, so i doubt it's depicting a macbook. The rumor is still possible though, and it would be pretty sweet if it were true.

[CraigJ @ Oct 10th 2008 6:44PM]

I don't see a latch. I see an indent and a trackpad.