http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/ Engadget Comments for MacBook Pro requires logout to switch graphics modes http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/

-but you forget Vistas better]]>Oct 14th 2008 7:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
This is your brain on drugs. ]]>Oct 14th 2008 7:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
And for the record, I don't even own a Mac. I use a Thinkpad now.]]>Oct 14th 2008 7:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Not with the new Vaio based on the Nvidia chipset (pretty much the same thing as the new MBP).

You did when the integrated chip was Intel, but now that Vaio is using Nvidia both for discrete and integrated, no reboot required.]]>Oct 14th 2008 7:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 8:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Now they have buggy at best hybrid GPU switching. Ouch. Not to worry though, generally this can just be fixed through drivers.]]>Oct 14th 2008 8:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
As much as it hurts, this is probably something which will get fixed more elegantly in the coming months.]]>Oct 14th 2008 8:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Vista is a multi-tasking and multi-vendor supporting powerhouse, OSX is not.

You can't blame Apple for lacking this feature for their OS is simply put, lacking.]]>Oct 14th 2008 8:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/"It only took fourteen seconds!"

You forget to mention the fact that it forces you to stop whatever it is you're doing, shutting down apps and closing out sessions in the process, which will take a heck of a lot more than 14 seconds to get back up and running again after logging back in again.

This would be a nightmare to deal with when multi-tasking and having multiple apps running, and then having to save all of your work before shutting down, as well as having to waste time trying to get back to the same spot/line/sentence/placemarker/etc before Apple's ineptitude forced you to log out.]]>Oct 14th 2008 8:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 9:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
I don't have to do anything other than click a button and 2 screen flickers later, I'm back in business.

Maybe people will finally see that the only thing Apple is better at is advertising... ]]>Oct 14th 2008 9:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
all they can do is make a pretty case

windows || linux > osx ]]>Oct 14th 2008 9:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Oh and the little fact that even in the newest Vaio you STILL have to close your active programs to make the switch - basically the only pain in the ass with having the system log you out and back in.

But don't let the facts get in the way of your ranting! On with the ignorance!!! ]]>Oct 14th 2008 9:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 9:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
I also think that Apple will (hopefully) address this with the next revision of the OS. I suspect that the way OSX starts it's graphics server is probably responsible for this, and that it will be a significant and fundamental change, and therefore risky.

]]>Oct 14th 2008 9:23PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
If you were talking about changing resolutions then yes I would say it's ridiculous. I've had to do that in Linux many times.]]>Oct 14th 2008 9:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 9:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 9:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Okay, objectively speaking, is there a potential stability or performance benefit to logging out when switching modes?"

My guess is that you are loading a different driver and chipset into the profile and hence you have to log out and log back in to load the different driver and chipset. If Vista is able to do this with a Sony Vaio without logging out and back in, more power to them and I think that's pretty amazing. They're ahead of the game. I still don't think it's unreasonable to have to log out and log in to load a new driver and change video chipsets.

If someone has a better theory or knowledge about this I welcome it. But seriously, y'all, the fanboyisms have gotten old.]]>Oct 14th 2008 9:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
After thinking about it, I'm not sure that with x-windows that this is going to be solvable in the short term.

I have a question. Once you've changed this setting, does it "stick"? If so, I think most folks will set it the way they want it and leave it that way, and changing it will be the exception.

Nonetheless, Apple needs to try to do better, because this is an example of "it just works... if you reboot" and your average user just wants it to work and doesn't care why or how. And they need to put the setting somewhere more accessible, IMO]]>Oct 14th 2008 10:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Windows is better at security and networking, because Microsoft is very research oriented and scientific. That's where they do best. With 64-bit, because of the need to buy new hardware and breaking compatibility, marketing people got in the way and stopped the engineers doing their work.

If I must say one thing about Apple, it's that their engineers obviously have a lot of freedom. The marketing guys do their work, the design guys do theirs, and there's surely some overlap, but the marketing guys don't dominate the product planning and direction determination (love the alliteration there, eh?)

Vista has a user-mode graphics system (the WDDM, needed for things like Aero Glass). That means the graphics card can crash due to overheating, or the driver could crash, and the system wouldn't go down with a BSOD. It can restart the driver, with a screen flash and balloon message. It's all in user mode. It turns out GPU drivers accounted for quite a lot of XP crashes, hence the change to user mode. This system is hugely advanced, and can do things ranging from VRAM virtualisation to GPU scheduling. It's also the reason for most of Vista's compatibility problems (new driver model needs brand new drivers), and forms the basis for DirectX 10 (which is why that isn't coming to XP).

OSX's driver model isn't anywhere near that advanced AFAIK. The log-out seems to confirm it's not kernel mode (would likely require a reboot), but user-mode wouldn't require any log-out. Perhaps it's a hybrid model, consisting of both kernel and user mode portions. Perhaps it is simply that the new MacBook Pros are running OSX 10.5.5, which hasn't been updated to support them (maybe coming in 10.5.6?)

Sorry for the long post. Hope it's an interesting read.

]]>Oct 15th 2008 1:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Aren't most/all linux drivers kernel modules? doesn't that mean that they run in kernel space, but can be loaded/unloaded while running?

Interesting note about WDDM though, didn't know that.]]>Oct 15th 2008 1:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Oh and the little fact that even in the newest Vaio you STILL have to close your active programs to make the switch - basically the only pain in the ass with having the system log you out and back in.

But don't let the facts get in the way of your ranting! On with the ignorance!!! "

I actually have a very firm handle on the underpinning technologies. The benefits of starting a fresh session are absolute bunk. I habitually hibernate rather than shut down because there is huge benefit in not being interrupted in what you are doing. If you ever actually use your laptop to get work down it is hugely annoying to have that level of interruption. That is really grasping for some apologetic response right there.

With the current Vaio the switching is literally on the fly, largely because the Vista driver model isolates the video driver from the rest of the kernel execution context (for once the video driver can crash without taking out the OS, what I refer to as "ATI protection"). This allows Vista machines to easily toggle driver modes between SLI and non-SLI without requiring a reboot. To date OS X has not done this level of video driver separation which means that when they need to toggle video modes they need to stop and restart execution throughout the kernel context. Rumor has it that Snow Leopard will change that, but that has little impact on the landscape today (Windows 15 will make you breakfast, Tabby House Cat will wash your car, neither matter for this decade).

So yeah, you didn't actually make any truthful point (about the Vaio), and generally didn't let facts get in the way of your own ignorant rantings. Way to go cowboy. ]]>Oct 15th 2008 10:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Well, in a way, I can do that on a Mac Pro with no problems. It allows 2 (or more) dissimilar video cards to be installed, and rendering to be passed between either card. I can start up a game, like WoW, throw it into windowed mode, and move it between a NVidia 8800GT and an ATI 2600XT. The app handles it fine, and once the majority of the pixels have moved to the other card, rendering is taken over by it.

While not exactly the same situation here, OS X could do a similar migration of rendering off the 9600 and onto the 9400. Odds are, there were some last minute hitches or time constraints on implementing this, and rather then delay the product, Apple shipped it with this solution. It may be addressed in the future.


"Windows is better at security and networking, because Microsoft is very research oriented and scientific."

I just have to laugh at this part. Microsoft only started taking security seriously when Windows XP, MSSQL, IIS and other components got ripped to shreds. OS X at least inherited a bit of security from the legacy of Unix running in multiuser environments since the 70s. And on the networking front, Vista was MS's attempt at rewriting the entire network layer inhouse, and it resulted in reduced performance on most networks compared to Windows XP. MS has gotten better in both areas, but I wouldn't say they are best in the industry for either.


"largely because the Vista driver model isolates the video driver from the rest of the kernel execution context (for once the video driver can crash without taking out the OS, what I refer to as "ATI protection"). "

Clearly it's not isolated well enough, when even MS came out and said graphics drivers from both NVidia and ATI were causing the majority of Vista crashes and blue screens after release.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/nvidia-drivers-responsible-for-nearly-30-of-vista-crashes-in-20/
]]>Oct 15th 2008 12:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 16th 2008 4:15AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
How about this one, to launch solitaire in Vista you have to go to Start menu.]]>Oct 14th 2008 7:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Microsoft gets it's own post for every flaw so why not Apple too?]]>Oct 14th 2008 7:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 8:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 8:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 9:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
The computer in the video isn't plugged in (look on the left side, there's no magsafe plugged in)

The setting, if I understand correctly, for high performance forces the computer to always stay in high graphics mode regardless of power source. So if you're on the road and in better battery mode and want to start drawing more power and shift into high graphics mode, only then would you have to log out, right?]]>Oct 15th 2008 12:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Well, at least this one should be fixed with a sw patch....]]>Oct 14th 2008 7:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 7:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Maybe or I have great fashion taste.
You obviously don't know what that logo]]>Oct 14th 2008 7:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/Oct 14th 2008 8:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/
Apparently neither of you realize that a transvestite doesn't have a 'pussy' it has a dick.

A Transexual on the other hand . . . .


Jeez . . . .]]>Oct 15th 2008 8:03AM