New MacBook Pro running Hybrid SLI? UPDATE: Nope.

Alright, something's fishy here. When Apple announced that the new MacBook Pro has two NVIDIA GeForce chips -- the 9400M and the 9600M GT -- the focus was on what that means for battery life. Absent any mention of Hybrid SLI, we assumed that was all, but PC Mag has posted some eyebrow-raising benchmarks comparing the new MacBook Pro to HP's Pavilion HDX16t, which also features a 9600M GT. While the MacBook Pro test model fell behind the Pavilion in most benchmarks due to its slower processor, its Crysis framerate beat that of the Pavilion by 24.1 frames per second -- 41.9 over 17.3. That doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you look at benchmarks of a desktop with NVIDIA's similar GeForce 9300 chipset and a GeForce 8500 GT -- turns out Crysis runs 12.63 frames per second faster (29.19 over 16.56) in Hybrid SLI than it does on the 8500 GT alone. Is the MacBook Pro running in SLI mode when set for performance? We don't have confirmation of that, but we'll put it to the test in our forthcoming review -- until then, feel free to grab a grain of salt while freaking out anyway.

Update: Sorry, folks -- NVIDIA's just posted a support doc that says the MBP doesn't support Hybrid SLI in either OS X or Windows -- and when running Windows, it's locked into using the 9600M GT. We're not sure where that Crysis boost is coming from -- GDDR3 vs GDDR2, perhaps -- but we'll dig deeper in our review. Stay tuned.

Read - PC Mag (MacBook Pro benchmarks)
Read - Hot Hardware (NVIDIA GeForce 9300 desktop motherboards benchmarks)

[MrAfternoon @ Oct 15th 2008 3:47PM]

i have no idea what this means.

[Nomi @ Oct 15th 2008 3:51PM]

Hope this helps: The setup consists of an IGP as well as a GPU on MXM module. The IGP would assist the GPU to boost performance when the laptop is plugged to a power socket while the MXM module would be shut down when the laptop was unplugged from power socket to lower overall graphics power consumption.

[Nomi @ Oct 15th 2008 3:52PM]

To elaborate...its like the SLI set-up on desktops (two vid cars connected together to act as one) but its between an integrated and discrete chip like the Macbook Pro has.

[Zach @ Oct 15th 2008 4:05PM]

It means that when doing basic computing tasks ie Surfing the web your Mac will use an on board low power graphics accelerator. When you need a little more grunt when playing a game or HD movie another more powerful card will help accelerate graphics, at the cost of battery life.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/hybrid_sli.html

[ZaxCG2 @ Oct 15th 2008 4:16PM]

Thanks for explaining in Joe language, Zach! :D

[Phoenix @ Oct 15th 2008 4:37PM]

it does take a reboot to switch the graphics cards though.

i.e. going from less powerful to powerful requires shutting down

[Phoenix @ Oct 15th 2008 5:06PM]

Why low ranked?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/macbook-pro-requires-logout-to-switch-graphics-modes/

[John @ Oct 15th 2008 5:11PM]

because a logout and a reboot are vastly different, especially for macs. The computers running XP at my work actually stop to tell you that it's playing the logout sound, along with saving the registry, etc., whereas with OS X, assuming you don't have any hanging programs or unsaved work, logging out is pretty quick.

[Basic @ Oct 15th 2008 6:30PM]

Wait... NO WAY does Apple cram a MXM Type-IV into the Macbook Pro. SHOW ME SHOW ME SHOW ME SHOW ME.

[Graham Wellington (formerly ronald.raygun) @ Oct 15th 2008 3:47PM]

im a little ignorant to the SLI but i thought they had to be the exact same card.

[Mr_Armageddon @ Oct 15th 2008 3:53PM]

Hybrid SLI uses the integrated GPU along with a dedicated GPU to get better performance than either chip can achieve alone. So if true in this case, the integrated 9300 chipset is giving an extra graphics boost to the 9600M GT. I don't claim to be an expert, but I hope this helps.

[nerdtalker @ Oct 15th 2008 4:01PM]

Considering that it requires a logout-login to merely switch GPUs, I heartily doubt that Nvidia/OSX has a working SLI implementation.

The allegation here is that the Windows implementation has Hybrid SLI. That, I would believe.

[maveric101 @ Oct 15th 2008 4:21PM]

the curious thing is that nvidia's info page says the 9600M GT does not have geforce boost (which is using both gpus at the same time) because the integrated graphics wouldn't make enough difference in performance. i am so confused. unfortunately, apple's website is no help, they put everything in very simple terms (i.e. they don't even list the model of the CPU; there is a big difference between the T9400 and P9500, both of which run at 2.53 GHz).

also, since you only need a logout to switch between the two, maybe that could be fixed by software? the whole benefit of hybrid power was that it switched on the fly without closing anything.

[Ray @ Oct 15th 2008 5:01PM]

The pcmag link says that its running in boot camp. Since windows was not design for this type of machine, is there any mention of how it is running SLI? Does it automatically set it self for that in windows or can it be switched?

This is looking more and more like my next computer...

[nerdtalker @ Oct 16th 2008 3:28AM]

I like how this nvidia FAQ answers it all: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2243

" Question
Does the Apple Macbook Pro (Late 2008) support NVIDIA's Hybrid SLI® technology?

Answer

No. NVIDIA Hybrid SLI technology for notebook computers allows a motherboard GPU and a discrete GPU to work together for extreme multi-GPU SLI performance when needed (called GeForce Boost mode), or use just a single GPU for low power consumption and long battery life (called Hybrid Power mode).

Apple's Macbook Pro (Late 2008) does feature both the NVIDIA® GeForce®9400M motherboard GPU for everyday computing and the NVIDIA® GeForce® 9600M GT discrete GPU for high graphics performance. You can switch between the Geforce 9400M motherboard GPU (called energy saver mode) and the Geforce 9600M GT discrete GPU (called performance mode), but you cannot use both GPU's at once in this implementation.

Apple's hybrid graphics technology is supported under the MacOS X operating system version 10.5.6 and higher only. When running Microsoft's Windows XP™ or Microsoft's Windows Vista™ using Apple's Boot Camp, the system locks into performance mode which uses the Geforce 9600M GT discrete GPU for all graphics related tasks and can not be changed to use the Geforce 9400M motherboard GPU for low power mode."

Investigative reporting at its finest. Found with a google search.

[nerdtalker @ Oct 15th 2008 5:11PM]

I like how this nvidia FAQ answers it all: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2243

" Question
Does the Apple Macbook Pro (Late 2008) support NVIDIA's Hybrid SLI® technology?

Answer

No. NVIDIA Hybrid SLI technology for notebook computers allows a motherboard GPU and a discrete GPU to work together for extreme multi-GPU SLI performance when needed (called GeForce Boost mode), or use just a single GPU for low power consumption and long battery life (called Hybrid Power mode).

Apple's Macbook Pro (Late 2008) does feature both the NVIDIA® GeForce®9400M motherboard GPU for everyday computing and the NVIDIA® GeForce® 9600M GT discrete GPU for high graphics performance. You can switch between the Geforce 9400M motherboard GPU (called energy saver mode) and the Geforce 9600M GT discrete GPU (called performance mode), but you cannot use both GPU's at once in this implementation.

Apple's hybrid graphics technology is supported under the MacOS X operating system version 10.5.6 and higher only. When running Microsoft's Windows XP™ or Microsoft's Windows Vista™ using Apple's Boot Camp, the system locks into performance mode which uses the Geforce 9600M GT discrete GPU for all graphics related tasks and can not be changed to use the Geforce 9400M motherboard GPU for low power mode."

Investigative reporting at its finest. Found with a google search.

[who? @ Oct 15th 2008 6:17PM]

@Ray

"Since windows was not design for this type of machine"

Other PCs actually aren't that different; if you think that an Apple computer and a 'PC' are different things, you are woefully incorrect.

I (and everyone who has ever installed Windows OS on a Mac) can vouch for it running just as good (if not better) as on any other PC (because it is one). The only difference between Apple computers and PCs is that Apple computers can run Mac OS X. Apart from that they are just PCs.

You can even choose to only install Windows on a Mac if you want to, and it will work just like a Sony, Dell, or HP laptop. If you want to run Windows on it, you shouldn't have any problems (at least not any more than usual, hehe).

[Ray @ Oct 15th 2008 6:24PM]

@who?

i was referring to integrated + dedicated set up, but then i read somewhere else that a couple laptops already have it!

But thanx, its good to know that windows isnt bogged down by boot camp (or primary install if thats what you were saying, im not sure how that works). Also, i wonder how this trackpad will work in windows. I know there wont be any multitouch, but...

[who? @ Oct 15th 2008 6:49PM]

@Ray

The trackpad will work fine, but Microsoft doesn't support multitouch in their OS (maybe there's a program somewhere).

On the other hand, the trackpad itself is a button (or buttons, based on how you set up the preferences) and there is no reason it would work for right/left/middle/whatever you set it for clicking.

[wootman @ Oct 15th 2008 10:27PM]

@who, "pcs" can also run OSX, though its a legal nightmare.

[EMoShunz @ Oct 16th 2008 8:09AM]

@ nerdtalker or anyone:
can the 2 cards be used individually simultaneously? could os 10.6 use one card for video and the other with opencl to, say, run live sound of multiple midi and sound processing programs at a gig for guitar, keys, bass and drums, with no latency?

[James Barsby @ Oct 15th 2008 3:49PM]

That's great, but I could hire a team of actors to perform Crisis live in front of me for the price of this laptop :0)

[aaron @ Oct 15th 2008 3:52PM]

I'm a Mac guy and I still found your statement hilarious!

[Aztec @ Oct 15th 2008 7:22PM]

LOL. I'm a Mac/PC/Linux person, man I wish I could afford a MacBook Pro! :)

[Major4Play @ Oct 15th 2008 4:27PM]

@Aaron
You look just like Justin Long ?

[thedesolate1 @ Oct 15th 2008 11:45PM]

Oh yeah well with 700 billion dollars I can hire people to play Financial Crisis in front of me....

Take That!

OR

I can give every single American a $2,000 MacBook Pro and on top of that give 1 Mcdonald's Apple pie to 47 million of those Americans who have no health insurance right now for all their troubles.

*Estimates based according to the CIA U.S population and amount of Health care uninsured government estimates.

[chris @ Oct 16th 2008 8:41PM]

this is super funny...
I am a university student but i'm still using PC~
I should be the only who "think different" :
http://9gag.com/read/entry/id/1373/Apple+-+Think+Different/

[Maniac @ Oct 15th 2008 3:57PM]

There's no way they managed to fit a hybrid of Rocky in there. You guys are idiots.

[garrenteed @ Oct 15th 2008 3:49PM]

I can't picture myself running Crysis on a Mac

[7on @ Oct 15th 2008 4:05PM]

Nor can you picture yourself running it on an HP either

[MikeV @ Oct 15th 2008 4:08PM]

@7on

On an HP Blackbird 002, yeah I can.

[Zelatio @ Oct 15th 2008 4:39PM]

I have Crysis running on my MacBook Pro.

[garrenteed @ Oct 15th 2008 4:44PM]

Not that I hate Macs or PC's, but a Mac is not my choice for a gaming laptop.

[maveric101 @ Oct 15th 2008 7:32PM]

i can run crysis on my hp dv5t.

[chickenator @ Oct 16th 2008 12:50AM]

@ garrenteed,
so u hate Mac.

[garrenteed @ Oct 16th 2008 11:51AM]

No, I just would use a PC to game it up, and a Mac to do other things.

[Dark Angel @ Oct 17th 2008 8:24AM]

With the gloss on these new glass screens, you can picture yourself doing everything on a Mac....

[dotAaron @ Oct 15th 2008 3:50PM]

Oooo, the gap between Mac and PC hardware seems to close more and more every release :)

Will be interesting to see if this is whats happening :)

[Phoenix @ Oct 15th 2008 3:59PM]

Yeah, but Mac is still waaaay more expensive for the hardware spec you get.

[Rizzo @ Oct 15th 2008 4:03PM]

What gap between PC and Mac Hardware? The imaginary one that cost $500 more?

[dotAaron @ Oct 15th 2008 4:10PM]

What i meant is that Mac's have always been limited to what they contain, now they seem to be getting the same new tech as any PC. Never ever thought SLI tech would be in a Mac :)

Though i would say this seems to be priced close to that of PC laptops in this spec. DDR3, LED backlit, Nvidia 9600gt etc. :)

[Major4Play @ Oct 15th 2008 4:28PM]

Yes dotAaron they have contained the same PC hardware as every other computer since the intel switch.

[csmitty @ Oct 15th 2008 3:54PM]

I'd really like to have a Pro for solid modeling and stuff like that that my current macbook X3100 just can't do. But I think the new one will. And maybe use the extra to rebuild my desktop. Ah decisions decisions.

Also it didn't mention if it was the 256 or 512 one. If it is running SLI I might just opt for the cheaper one. Since that should definitely get it done.

[Bad Beaver @ Oct 15th 2008 3:52PM]

So before anyone asks: Yes, it does.

[Michael Fidler @ Oct 17th 2008 3:39AM]

I find this very interesting and look forward to your complete analysis. It doesn't make sense, but i'm sure you'll figure it out. I can't believe I'm actually considering buying one of these. I'm a PC!

[Rollins @ Oct 15th 2008 4:16PM]

Phew. Here I was thinking I'd have to get my Wolfenstein on since it wouldn't play Doom.

[Atanas Boev @ Oct 15th 2008 5:03PM]

And also - yes it will.

[John @ Oct 15th 2008 7:28PM]

but! umm....eh....FIRST!!!!!

[Iamme @ Oct 15th 2008 3:55PM]

Strange, according to those benchmarks the old Macbook Pro with the 8600 beats the HP for gaming, and that has a 9600 and a slightly faster CPU

[ishism @ Oct 15th 2008 4:13PM]

Strange indeed. ^ LAMME ME LA VERGA ^