http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/ Engadget Comments for Ask Engadget: Best consumer-level HDD camcorder? http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 10:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 10:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 12:39AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 3:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/]]>Dec 26th 2008 9:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Canon HG21 (same as above, twice the hard drive space, plus view finder;)
Canon HV30 (HDV format so it's tape based. Very good quality, prices dropped a lot lately)

Sony has very similar offerings but AFAIK their AVCHD camcorders do NOT reach 24kbps yet so HDV is a better bet if you choose Sony.

]]>Dec 25th 2008 10:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 2:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
One thing you should know about recording live performances though, and it's very important. I've got a Canon HG20 and I was recording a live show in Chicago. Every once in a while it would just stop recording complaining about a buffer overflow. Sucked ass. I pulled out my Jesus phone and started poking around looking for a solution.

The loud noise from the live performance can vibrate the drop sensor in the hard drive. This will stop the hard drive for a time. There is a buffer, but when that fills up it just stops recording all together.

If you're going to record a live show bring some padding or something to put around the camera to dampen the sound. ]]>Dec 26th 2008 10:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 10:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 12:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 1:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 27th 2008 11:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 10:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 10:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 10:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 1:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 11:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 11:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 12:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 11:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 11:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 11:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 11:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 12:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 11:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 25th 2008 11:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
As a totally casual camcorder user, I find the quality to be very good, and the useability to be top-notch.

The HF11 is more expensive as it allows higher bitrate recording and it includes 32GB internal. However I was satisfied with the test footage I saw of the HF100, and why pay for internal storage when SD cards are so cheap?

I realize these are not HDD camcorders, but I think they're better.]]>Dec 25th 2008 11:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 1:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 3:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 11:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/I got my 16Gb Class 6 SDHC card for $40 with a card reader. Can record like 4-5 hours on it.

@ ashish:
I just put the memory card in my computer and pull the video files onto my hard drive to back up my video.

@ Mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTpHW-Fy_Zo]]>Dec 26th 2008 2:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 6:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
I like the size and the price. (Small and Cheap.) But I think I'd need a removable battery and an SD slot.
Also my hands shake really badly so some optical stabilization would be nice.

But they're so (comparatively) cheap...]]>Dec 26th 2008 12:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/I'd like to know, once & for all, which one actually has the best video quality.
If you read reviews, they really are not cut & dry.
Features are secondary to a good picture.
I can always edit later in Vegas (et al.).]]>Dec 26th 2008 2:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 12:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 1:28AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
As noted previously 24mbps recording in 30/24p setting is great. Low light quality is also good if you go to manual mode. Has dummy proof automatic mode to get started right away. Lots of fun wide angle lenses to make some fantastic production shots of skating/skiing/biking.

The two downsides are the included software (just toss it out, it's useless like most included software on these cameras) and working with AVCHD can be a chore. New versions of Vegas 9, Premiere, and Cyberlink VideoProducer all support AVCHD now and performance if improving but manipulation of raw footage and encoding can take a very long time and needs a relatively robust computer to be feasible.

I plan to setup a Core i7 setup to handle the AVCHD format which shouldn't be a problem.

The flip side of using DV tapes is that it will take 1:1 time to capture to the format at the beginning (ie 60min of footage takes 60min to capture) but you capture to more user friendly formats in the process, hence, you save a lot of time of work flow and post production. You also have ability to use earlier version of video editing software to handle it.

Good luck!!!!

]]>Dec 26th 2008 1:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
Pros: Easy to edit files, instant archive (put the tape on the shelf)
Cons: Long capture time

One question: With all these new camcorders recording to SD cards or hard drives... what do you do with the original footage when you're done? I know monster hard drives are cheap... do you just back it all up to external hard drives and delete the camera?]]>Dec 26th 2008 2:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
Yes.]]>Dec 26th 2008 4:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 31st 2008 11:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 2:57AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
But if you're *really* stuck on HDD camcorders, the two major players are Canon and Sony (same for tape, really). They're quite similar in image quality, with Canon having higher (but questionable) bitrate and framerate options, which helps in low light (to a degree... you get more motion blur in return). For Canon, go with the HF10/HF100, which are small and memory-based, but sadly lack a viewfinder (bad for battery life and outdoors, where the LCD is useless). For Canon HDD-based, go for the HG21, which has everything (yay, a viewfinder), but is a bit bulkier (the HG11 is the same, no viewfinder, less capacity). For Sony, the SR12/11 (only difference is capacity). Look on camcorderinfo.com for details.

I've owned both tape and HDD high def camcorders, and I can say that while the HDD made transfers to computer easier, the editing was a royal pain, and the weird artifacts meant that I had to avoid taking shots that might lead to said artifacts. While tape is "only" 1440x1080, the real resolution is actually quite close. I'm also a bit afraid of shaking the HDD camcorder too much, since my friend has the same model and it died within weeks, something that people need to consider if you want to use it for things like sports.]]>Dec 26th 2008 3:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
just got a canon hg20 and love it. i have a sony hdc100(or something like that) as well, and have been trying to get a quality mac program to run avchd (new imovie blows). final cut express is nothing but headaches because it dosent auto sense the hg20. its been what, 2.5 years with AVCHD and this format still struggles...? my windows machines, however, handle avchd fine... not awesome, but it works.

bottom line, canon hg20 is great. super small too.]]>Dec 26th 2008 3:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 7:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
Using SD cards alone, I can buy a few 16Gb cards for less than the $350 price diff between the HF100 and HF11 and get better transfer connivence to boot. The 24Mbps vs 17 Mbps I, and camcorderinfo.com, found nearly indistinguishable.]]>Dec 26th 2008 7:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
Also, HDD camcorders can break easily (even though they have those accelerometers to stop the HDD's when they fall), theres still a chance of it breaking (like shaking it a little while recording)

Only downside to SSD camcorders (at least with mine) is that the internal memory is SLOW for transferring to your PC. SD cards with good transfer speeds is the only remedy. other than that, it's a bit better than a Hard drive camcorder, and it should get better battery life (mine gets only 1 hour though, 1080p video and a small battery)]]>Dec 26th 2008 7:53AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
3 problems:

1: Most mics on cameras can 'hear' and will record the motor pulling the tape...it's annoying as hell in playback (unless you plan on taking a external mic everywhere you go).

2. Tapes, if not handled with care and stored in a clean room like temperature controlled environ will harden/become brittle (like all tapes do) causing artificats on playback cuz the tape isn't traveling over the read heads properly.

3. I refer to the case of VHS vs DVD....no instant access to your scenes on tape: FF...REW...FF...REW... = tape wear

I now have the Samsung SC-HMX20C model (my Sony batts died and the issues above pushed me to get a new camcorder) and so far like the ability it gives me in the form factor it has (touchscreen lcd is great, HD/SD/Photo mode, good selection of recording modes, and it's light weight is great for attaching the thing to a monopod and lifting over walls or crowds, however their docking base sucks...hard to get it on there just right). Note: This model has a photo mode...the cheaper $250 model does not.]]>Dec 26th 2008 8:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
The Samsung has a built-in 8g mem along with the SD reader (which currently has a 8gig card in it)...

When plugged into a PC, it displays as 2 USB drives...one for the internal mem...one for the card mem.

I just wrote a autorun + batch script that launches when I 'dock' the camcorder on my desk to 'move' the photos and video to my storage drive. Easy. Automatic.]]>Dec 26th 2008 8:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/Dec 26th 2008 9:28AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/25/ask-engadget-best-consumer-level-hdd-camcorder/
Get an HG20/HF11, the wide angle lens attachment, a rode videomic, and a top handle of some sort and you'll be fine.

Why all this? Consumer level camcorders desperately need a wider field of vision...especially at a concert. The videomic because the onboard microphones sound like crap. If you've got steady hands then you can possibly forget the handle. Just be careful because depending on where you're going they may or may not allow you to record. If they allow you to record, then you're good to go with all that stuff.]]>Dec 26th 2008 9:36AM