http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/ Engadget Comments for Battery wars: automakers seek profits in supplying EV parts http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 10:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 10:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 10:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 10:57AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 10:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 10:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 10:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/

oh wait!]]>Jan 28th 2009 10:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 1:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 10:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 12:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 10:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 11:17AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 11:57AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 28th 2009 1:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/
think about this... we know how long a laptop battery lasts right... ~3yrs apple says it can get a battery to last 5yrs...'til it can't hold a charge any more... is this what we expect from these car batteries as well? but these batteries that can power a car are several hundred pounds... if the switch to electric really happened are we going to see landfills full to overflowing with literally tonnes and tonnes of highly toxic old car batteries?

also.. in the US electricity is primarily produced by coal powered power plants... so these "electric" cars aren't so much electric as they are REALLY coal powered... some say switch to nuclear power plants... well what about the environmental impact of digging out tonnes of earth to produce grams of uranium and producing waste toxic, radioactive waste that literally stays toxic for 100s of thousands of years?

and the other thing is that uranium and coal are not renewable.. just like gasoline.

hydrogen is probably much better for transferring your energy (don't get huge landfills filled with 400lb dead batteries) but we're back to the fact that it take electric to make the hydrogen so even hydrogen powered vehicles are really coal powered or nuclear powered or even diesel so what's the difference.

ethanol.. at least from corn, when it's all tallied up... it takes more energy to product the ethanol than you actually get out of it in the end... so that's a waste of time... sugar cane is supposed to be much better.

all these "smart" people need to come up with a real plan]]>Jan 28th 2009 1:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/
Public transportation would be the best but the way America is setup it requires a lot of "driving".]]>Jan 28th 2009 3:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/
We do have recycling technologies to reuse something like 97% of a lead acid battery.

And I think that there should be a standard large lead acid battery pack put on the market in order to use less packaging. It would also make it easier to swap out and recycle. Well, maybe not physically easier, but buying one piece and securing it down would be easier.

Coal power has issues, but you can pay more money and get wind power offsets (or solar, or renewable I'm sure). It might cost more, but all of a sudden, your car became cleaner overnight. There is also a large push to build renewable power sources in the federal bailout plan. It wouldn't change the emissions from ordinary cars, but if they were all electric, it would have.

If you want a radical solution, it would be cold fusion. If we can harness that power somehow and have it be self sustaining, then it would be really good to have everything use electricity.
]]>Jan 28th 2009 5:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/
biomass is renewable, but not clean, ethanol is renewable, but not clean etc...

cold fusion would be nice but waiting for cold fusion is like waiting for a unicorn to suddenly appear... cold fusion is a pipe dream.. it's like the process that turns lead into cold.. it's a pipe dream... a unicorn.

batteries just don't make sense as a transport method when you scale it up... Hydrogen makes sense at the transport for energy but it costs too much right now to produce the hydrogen. right now you can get efficient diesel engines with better efficiencies than fuel cells when you add everything up.. some catalyst needs to be found to lower the energy required to produce hydrogen.]]>Jan 28th 2009 9:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/
"To begin with, I would demand answers to several key questions, with concrete evidence to back up those answers:

* How much did Texaco/Chevron pay GM for the NiMH patents?

* What stipulations beyond mere cash-for-NiMH did GM agree to in that contract?

* Why didn’t GM sell at least a few hundred EV1s to those interested buyers, and set aside the hundreds more for parts and repairs while they lasted? Why did GM crush all of them instead? If Toyota could do that with the RAV4-EV, why couldn’t GM?

* Why did GM gut the few EV1s donated to museums or universities, rather than leaving them intact and in running order?

* Where is the study, survey, questionnaire, customer feedback data that substantiates GM’s broken record claim that there was “no customer demand” for the EV1?

I would also insist on this condition (probably more!):

* GM must also develop and sell to the public a pure EV model of the Volt, in which the gasoline generator is substituted with a larger battery pack sufficient to take the vehicle at least 125 miles per charge. (In essence, this isn’t much different than selling a car with either a 4- or 6- or 8-cylinder ICE. Yes, the EV version will likely cost more than the PHEV version, at least until mass production lowers the price of lithium, but that’s tough frijoles: they need to put them BOTH in the showrooms and let the consumer decide.)

And… if I were on the board of Plug-In America, I would only let GM march with us in the inaugural parade if they agreed to borrow back the EV1 in the Smithsonian, restored it to pristine running condition, and drive it at the front of our procession.

Yes… I am still fuming about the EV1. And I just don’t think that GM should get a dime of public money while still lying to said public about that debacle. Time to ‘fess up."]]>Jan 28th 2009 3:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/
]]>Jan 28th 2009 5:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/
Li-Poly is expensive but perfect for pretty much everything. Only problem is it needs a hard case incase of impact, these things go up in big flames. Also cycle life isn't too high.]]>Jan 28th 2009 5:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/
I remember 30 years ago when the same type of people where all SCREAMING that we only had 30 years of Oil left.

Hmm, I think I saw on the news 2 nights ago tankers sitting full of oil in the gulf of mexico just WAITING for the oil market to go back up so they could actually make a little more money on it. I'd guess we haven't run out of oil quite yet have we?

This is going to be just like GE and it's Wind turbine division that ONLY makes money because YOUR TAX MONEY helps pay for every wind turbine they make. Yes, without that GE wouldn't be making any wind turbine's because they would only LOSE money on them. Expect EV's to be exactly the same way.]]>Jan 28th 2009 7:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 30th 2009 1:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/Jan 30th 2009 1:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/battery-wars-automakers-seek-profits-in-supplying-ev-parts/1. EV's will NOT use lead acid batteries, so the toxic waste argument is non existent.
2. Used batteries are VALUABLE and will be recycled. Lithium is non toxic.
3. Lithium is much better than NiMH, no need to go back to old technology.
4. Hydrogen and fuel cells are inefficient and insanely expensive, too many reasons to list here.
5. EV's don't keep us dependent on foreign oil.
6. New lithium formats last for thousands of charges and many many years.
7. Even powering EV's from coal there is less pollution than gas vehicles, plus the grid is a combination of many fuel sources cleaner than coal.
EV's are the future, get used to it.]]>Feb 3rd 2009 9:39PM