http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
]]>Feb 20th 2009 4:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
Basically, i'm saying a big YOU SU#K!

]]>Feb 20th 2009 5:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/

So, we are further along the path than the US is. ]]>Feb 20th 2009 5:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 6:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/it's not like i defended uk or anything.. in fact, it sucks to be a brit as well, probably far more so in some aspects
come to think of it, diminishing civil liberty seems to be the common trend, so cheer up! you guys aren't alone..]]>Feb 20th 2009 6:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/If you would have tried to read a newspaper or just hear a news broadcast, you would have noticed how european governements , when in need to justify a controversial piece of legislation, constantly recur to the argument that some equivalent law is in place in the U.S. So since America has always been the cradle and the defender of democracy, it follows that a law accepted by americans can't be called undemocratic or illiberal, and if you do it follows that you are a commie.
Even in countries whose governements have not interest in pushing similar agendas, in a globalized economy, the companies that operate om both side of the Atlantic (basically all in the telecom/interwebs business) tend to streamline their business practices to simplify operations and reducing costs.
And last, but unfortunately definitely not least, if you would have had enough intelligence to see and draw conclusions from what happens around you, you would have remarked how all major trends in the socio-political sphere have the nasty habit of starting up in the land of the free and eventually reaching and fluorishing on our ancient bucholic shores.
]]>Feb 20th 2009 6:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.savetheinternet.com/

sign the petition please =]]]>Feb 20th 2009 8:17PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 21st 2009 3:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 21st 2009 4:14AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 21st 2009 10:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
Thoughts?]]>Feb 20th 2009 5:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
Of course the Patriot Act has helped stop terrorism. Increased awareness stopped a shoebomber. RPG attacks were thwarted by agents. Shipping securities, border security and Airline security are a few of the many measures that have been effective. The overall scope and abridgment to our rights are the prevailing problems of the Patriot Act.

What he suggested was a security measure that has checks in place to prevent some of the vulnerability that is inherent in these laws. If it isn't abused, and is used solely to investigate terror cells, then why not? If the checks and balances are there to prevent infringing on my rights. I don't mind.

All a moot point though. It'll die in committee.]]>Feb 20th 2009 5:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
Just typing in child swings, and later search porn, days apart, you could be put in a database because your "search" history fits the criteria of a molester.

This just one step closer to Big Brother


People say they want to trade some freedoms for more security, but when we start giving up our freedoms, we start losing our security.]]>Feb 20th 2009 5:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
-Ronald Reagan]]>Feb 20th 2009 5:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
How many times has the US been attacked since implementing the Patriot act?

Did you say none? I thought you did. So the case can be made that the Patriot act has stopped terrorism? Did you say yes? I thought you did.]]>Feb 20th 2009 6:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
Did you say none? I thought you did.

"This rock is keeps tigers away."]]>Feb 20th 2009 6:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
Cause and effect... check it out. ]]>Feb 20th 2009 6:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/

How many years had passed between the first WTC bombing in 1993, and the 9/11 attacks in 2001?


Islamic terrorists are very, very patient. Remember that, and do so well.]]>Feb 20th 2009 6:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
It's shameful that they have named the bill some protect the children b.s. Now whoever votes against this bill will have to defend themselves against republican bulldogs aiming to make political points.

What's really sad is the people who will inevitably vote for the bill/support this bill without even thinking twice about giving up their liberties. We really are sheep.]]>Feb 20th 2009 6:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 7:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 10:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
The Oklahoma City Bombings were not Muslim attacks, they were not even by foreign terrorists... get ur facts straight.]]>Feb 27th 2009 12:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 21st 2009 8:24AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
PS: I didn't complain when the FBI started listening in on my phone sex (albeit a little weird when they joined it)... but leave my midget porn alone!]]>Feb 20th 2009 5:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 11:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 21st 2009 4:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/if the latter is true, this should not be passed]]>Feb 20th 2009 5:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/]]>Feb 21st 2009 12:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
I do this sort of work (consulting). It's not hard, but let me tell you - MOST of the installations are just a linksys wifi router and a dsl modem. Where would you store that data? On a PC? who installs that, who manages it, who backs it up? Are you storing it on a internet host? who's paying/setting that up?

Sure it's easy, to do, but it isn't cheap. Cheap wifi routers will not store the logs locally, and those that do, won't hold more than a couple days of logs. 2years of every internet address clicked on in a Starbucks is a lot of data. So you want a PC in the location. The bill makes the owner liable for keeping the data as well. Most of my clients would rather just turn it off. It will probably get ignored by most. So no they shouldn't pass this law.]]>Feb 20th 2009 6:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
No, it will be too expensive for many to comply with. While I respect your opinion, I should say that I install Cisco wireless lan controllers and access points into hotels for a living.]]>Feb 20th 2009 6:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
Matty it's great that you work with Cisco products, I sell them for a living into the Data Center and Service Provider space! I think healthy opinions are good they lead to innovation :) What's a little extra hardware, those AP's aren't cheap you know!
]]>Mar 4th 2009 7:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
For republicians who have so often fought against unfunded mandates from the federal government to the states, I cannot believe that this crap is getting out there. Who is going to buy me and everyone else a small little box that records theses logs? I mean great for the economic stimulus - someone's got to make the things, but still.

As another person pointed out, there are already ways to surf the internet anonymously. This would solve nothing. If someone really wanted to get around these measures, they could. Heck, bored people create viruses cause "there's nothing else to do" and get around AV software. People that have intent to do harm also create viruses and also find ways around the software. Pot, alcohol, and other drugs are illegal and yet people who intend to drink or smoke find ways to do it.

To say that "we can use this to prosecute people" is madness. Phelps got a photo taken of him 'allegedly' smoking pot - massive uproar - but they couldn't prove it; why? Even though they had a picture of him apparently doing it, but then couldn't prove that there was actually pot there because "it had been used too much." Now imagine if you will that you have a home computer using wireless and you had a party, the logs in the router would show that MAC address went to a certain site, but you can't prove who actually went there because multiple people were there. What are you going to do? Put the computer in jail? -- BTW don't get me started on MAC spoofing.

The government is always trying to restrict our liberties by using fear or other key words to get us going. Stop following the herd, look at what they are trying to do, and if it is even going to achieve the goals. If it doesn't pass the smell test it shouldn't go forward. ]]>Feb 21st 2009 11:32AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/…………………………………….„-^*''::::::::::„„„-~-„„~-*-„„-^*~~-„„
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…………'|;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;'|:::::::::::::/;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;„-'';;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;|;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;]]>Feb 21st 2009 2:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
Okay, now who is it?]]>Feb 21st 2009 3:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
Seriously. At this rate, just fucking close the internet.

Change my ass. (Note: the bill will 99.99% surely not make it since it's Republican proposed. At least, I hope so.)]]>Feb 20th 2009 5:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
It's thinking like yours that is why free speech and freedom of expression are becoming things we tell our children we used to have.

Once you start down the slope it's really easy to slide all the way down.

"In the name of the children" is used far to often to get people to hand over their rights. If you do just a little digging into what's actually going on in the world instead of what you read about you would learn that the children are just fine. ]]>Feb 20th 2009 5:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Feb 20th 2009 5:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/
What if a person were to seduce a 12 year old girl into meeting with them and then kidnaps them. Wouldn't it be a good idea to have his last known internet using location?

If you guys choose porn over the safety of others, then there is something terribly wrong with you.]]>Feb 20th 2009 6:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/proposed-bill-would-force-isp-wifi-logs-for-security-criminal/Secondly, ISPs keep logs anyway, they just don't keep them for 2 years. And police can access these logs with proper warrant signed by a judge. I may be mistaken but I think one of the provisions of this bill is that the police doesn't need a warrant to access the logs.

In any case, this bill is not going to deter criminals, and it's not going to make anyone safer. All it will do is increase the chance that innocent people will be accused of crimes, and then at best their money and government's money will be wasted on clearing their names. At worst, they will end up in jail for a crime they didn't commit - does that sound like a free country to you?]]>Feb 20th 2009 7:33PM