Here she is, fresh off the Saturday Express. Apple's latest Mac Pro is said to be significantly more nimble and entirely easier to upgrade than its Penryn-based predecessor, and while it'll take us a few days yet to check out the former claim, we can already assure you that the second one is valid. Upon unboxing this beast (to be fair, it's not all that monstrous), we immediately dug within the cover to see what was up with Apple's new tray system. Rather than forcing users to squeeze their hands into unfathomably tight places just to pop in a new DIMM or add in a fresh 2TB hard drive, the engineers at Cupertino found a way to place all eight RAM slots on a removable tray, meaning that you can actually take that piece elsewhere and operate under better lighting. The tray was dead simple to remove and replace, and while it's a small inclusion, it's definitely an appreciated one. We'll be stressing this thing out and writing up a more thorough review soon, but for now, enjoy the snapshots / video below and after the break, respectively.
Pure dude doesn't know the difference between Xenon gas and Xeon processors.
There's no reason for Apple to change the case of the MacPro. How do you improve on something that's already perfect? It ain't heavy...it's just Apple excellence.
"That is a joke. Apple share bottom place in the world for quality. They have the highest Warranty claim rate of any manufacturer."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA let me guess... your best friend told you, or you read that on a message board somewhere. well of course it must be true then. im on # 32 piece of apple equipment. ive had 1 problem out of all of that... on an ipod of all things. hdd went bad.
"Apple quality is SH1T. No debate."
yes... who in the world would want to debate you and your excellent debating skills!
People have been posting that Apple's warranty claim rates are the highest in the industry. I've never seen those stats and, having worked in a computer repair & upgrade shop, I find it hard to believe.
I can't find evidence online of such a survey and would love to see pointers. When looking for it, I did find plenty of studies saying that Appl has the highest consumer satisfaction in the industry. See this, for example, from a month ago.
@kctroll: Apple also has the best warranties and the highest levels of customer satisfaction when it comes to tech support issues.
I had a lot more problems with my PowerBook a few years ago than I thought I should. That's why they replaced it with a much newer, much better MacBook Pro for free. And I haven't had a problem with it yet.
And as far as "READ[ing] the NEWS" goes, I think you're on to something. Try it:
I had in mind the (several iterations of) Consumer Reports reviews, in which Apple hardware and tech support consistently rank at the top. While you can't read the whole reviews online without a subscription, you can get an idea from the "Consider Tech Support" portion, here:
I'm not saying nothing ever goes wrong with Apple machines. In fact, I've already admitted to being the owner of an Apple product that had problems. Believe me, I'm a long way from thinking Apple is a perfect company. I am, however, claiming that you're uninformed, a troll, a hypocrite, and a moron. Choke on scorpions, kc. Choke on scorpions.
Personally, I've had a couple of issues with Apple products that were replaced at the store, no questions asked, and I didn't even have a receipt.
Dell may claim better service, but I've personally spent hours on the phone with Dell's shitty Indian support trying to resolve issues that were clearly their fault, such as installing the wrong video card, and claiming I needed to pay for a replacement, then after the support issue crossed the 30 day mark, claiming that it was now too late to fix the problem. That next day thing only applies to their business machines or if you pay for their support plans. You're not getting in next day in home replacement if you have a problem with your $500 Inspiron and didn't purchase their extra warranty; this I can state as a fact.
You can find stuff to back up your argument whatever side you're on, but my personal experience with Apple products has been only positive dating back to 2003 when I got my first iPod.
To me the problem isn't if Apple stuff breaks, it's if it gets fixed. In my experience, it does.
No kidding, 50% of all the macbook around me had to be return for hd failure or screen problems. Maybe 20% on that had to be return again. I dont buy mac anymore (I like to built my own now) but im in motion graphics and TV then all directors and graphic designers around me have macs.
Still I think mac are good products. Its just not my cup of tea anymore... I did pay 3000$ for a goddam G4 in the past but I dont spend that kind of money on computer now because in 6 month it will be obsolete anyway. Spending 1200$ per year on Hardware is the best ratio price/power I have found. Right now the sweet spot is on the i7 2.66ghz cpu. for 900$ you get a monster machine. No need of Xeon, its just silly when only 3D package will profit from 8 cores.
That particular report has been raised a few times recently. There is no problem at all with that report, on its own. The problem is that there have been many, many reports on warranty returns by many different groups, and they all come to different results. Different methodologies, different geographical areas, etc.
It is easy to find reports that state that Apple is #1, same with Sony, and Dell, and HP; conversely it is all to easy to find a report by some group saying that "company X has the highest warranty returns and is therefor least reliable". There is no one accepted measure, and so mentioning one report as though it is the only report is a misleading practice.
yeh I agree, if apple put out a midrange desktop tower they would steal another percent or two from windows market share, but that's apple, money over market share, this is why windows has always been so successful, it's got company's that support it that understand people want the lowest price on the most functional computer, some would argue that apple computers are more functional for the price, but if you delve deep, pc's are always slightly less expensive for what you get
Agreed that Dell's consumer customer support has much to be desired, but since we're talking about a Mac Pro with likely 'applecare' support, I'd compare this to Dell's Business support, which is almost unbeatable. Opting for the 4 year, 24/7 4-hour onsite service is a smart idea for mission critical business systems. Business support give you a line that calls the same support team directly (based in the US). Have a drive failure at midnight? They'll be there to replace it by 4am. That service has saved my butt many times. No additional charge.
Apple doesn't offer any support like that. Not even close.
Apple has had consistently high ratings for reliability in Consumer Reports. Every issue I've read places them at #1. Perhaps things have changed in the past year or two, but I'd like proof.
But the real reason I came to post is that my Aug '06 Mac Pro has slide-out trays for RAM. I don't see how that's difficult to upgrade.
And considering how long in the tooth that case design is that's not a good thing.
It seems to me that the only reason they added the removeable tray was to show some evidence that they actually give a damn about the state of their pro desktop design. Practically speaking it's an almost worthless addition since the Pro upgrade possibilities and frequency at which that happens are minute. I've busted open my old Pro case to upgrade the RAM twice in 5 years.
This appears to have been solely added to give the impression of "progress" when in fact it's more akin to Apple just treading water.
And before anyone rattles off the old "if it ain't broke ..." cliche, you're wrong. There is always a way to make a better design. That's why Apple don't sell blue bubble or lamp iMacs now.
Cash, why would you want to put an ATX board in this machine? If you want to run Windows or Linux the out-of-the-box hardware will do that very well... it's like putting a crap domestic engine into a Ferrari because you don't like the music on the stereo.
It looks harder to change the RAM than the last design IMO. On the last one, each set of four memory slots was on a small removable card. Now you have to remove the whole thing with two HUGE heat sinks attached.
@roach last I checked you CAN use your beloved wave keyboard on amy mac and the same goes for the mouse. Not only that but Logitech actually has a control panel application that integrates very will with OS X so if there is any fancy feature that the logitech hardware has you can configure it and use just like you can on windows. And before anyone starts arguing except for really expensive gaming rigs no computer comes standard with Logitech wave. And if we must look at default keyboard options Dell and pretty much all computer vendors have really cheap peripherals and are terrible to use.
at least it doesnt look like some alien spaceship with a billion blue LED's, a couple of seethrough panels to enjoy the sight of tangled wires and exposed chips, oh and a pc fanboy alongside who cares more about what the pc can benchmark rather than how he can use it.
It just looks like a case with a couple convenient handles on top and good airflow from having a giant vent for a front panel. I'll admit most of Apple's stuff is visually distinctive and often good looking. But this is just an aluminum case.
You can use PC keyboards on Macs, as long as they are USB or Bluetooth. Often you end up with no eject key though. So you have to search the internet for the way on how to turn the eject icon in the menu bar back on (which was turned off with 10.5 or something).
@cg0def I know you can use PC keyboards and mouse on a Macs. But I was taking about Apple's approach to design. Apple design = 75% design 25% ergonomic
Beside Apple hardware is too restrictive for my 3D need. I don't get to choose the video card l want. Rather, Apple choose it for you. l feel sorry for people who has to rely on what Apple release. I mean, these so called workstation doesn't even offer professional quadro cards. Apple has there people by their balls.
"Beside Apple hardware is too restrictive for my 3D need. I don't get to choose the video card l want. Rather, Apple choose it for you. l feel sorry for people who has to rely on what Apple release. I mean, these so called workstation doesn't even offer professional quadro cards. Apple has there people by their balls."
I mean, these so called 3D people doesn't have knowledge of english.
Well the distribution of machines was 40% Macs 55% PCs and about 5% Sun stations and we are talking about something like 5000+ machines. But Macs are very expensive and the tech support is quite inflexible. BTW you posted in the wrong thread.
Even an overclocked 4GHz Quad core cannot come close to a Mac Pro with 8 Xeon cores chewing away at something. For professonals who need the incredible power of an 8 core Xeon workstation, there is really nothing out there better for the money than the Mac Pro.
Which brings me to MY challenge. Try building and equivalent Xeon workstation with the same processors and same features as the Mac Pro for less. It cant be done... I looked hard at my options when I was buying, and Apple is a good 1,500 dollars LESS than their competition! Even if you build one yourself!
Those Xeon quadcores in the Mac Pro are 1000 dollars EACH on newegg so 2,000 dollars just for the processors alone! Hmmm, these new Mac Pros are seeming like a deal now for a lot of people, I bet. At least for those who NEED this kind of power, anyway. For gamers or websurfers, this machine is silly. But for 3D, video, scientific applications, and anything else heavily multithreade... or for someone who runs quite a few programs at the same time, this machine is amazing.
This absolutely insane computing power is why I... as a PC user... bought a Mac Pro, and it has been the best PC I have ever owned, by far.
And I thought that this was targeted at the uber-geeks at Engadget who only think about the specs and lowest price and if it can play Crysis or GTA 4. [just acting like all the other trolls right there] I'm willing to bet that 75% of the people who moan about the bad specs of Macs don't have PCs of those specs.
Why would the pins fail anymore than any other pin connector setup that's only ever unplugged once in the lifetime of the machine? How often do you switch out your ram?
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
posted March 14th 2009 12:58PM
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It looks like an amazing machine and a nice upgrade, too bad its a little out of my price range.
Pure dude doesn't know the difference between Xenon gas and Xeon processors.
There's no reason for Apple to change the case of the MacPro. How do you improve on something that's already perfect? It ain't heavy...it's just Apple excellence.
Dude we have the same name
"Apple excellence" !!!!!
That is a joke. Apple share bottom place in the world for quality. They have the highest Warranty claim rate of any manufacturer.
They continually beta test product on unsuspecting customers, who are unwilling to be given the title of tester.
The whole iPhone debacle has not faded from memory yet. My Mac Mini died FINALLY after 6 trips to the Genius bar in 2 years.
That is certainly rich, putting "excellence" and "Apple" in the same sentence. You are not on this planet.
Apple quality is SH1T. No debate.
"That is a joke. Apple share bottom place in the world for quality. They have the highest Warranty claim rate of any manufacturer."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
let me guess... your best friend told you, or you read that on a message board somewhere. well of course it must be true then. im on # 32 piece of apple equipment. ive had 1 problem out of all of that... on an ipod of all things. hdd went bad.
"Apple quality is SH1T. No debate."
yes... who in the world would want to debate you and your excellent debating skills!
opinion != fact
your opinion == pile of steamy elephant dung.
^^^^^^^^^^
fact.
@microdot.
this is not a debate. this is not subject to a subjective opinion. this is FACT. this is published stated fact. READ the NEWS. idiot.
People have been posting that Apple's warranty claim rates are the highest in the industry. I've never seen those stats and, having worked in a computer repair & upgrade shop, I find it hard to believe.
I can't find evidence online of such a survey and would love to see pointers. When looking for it, I did find plenty of studies saying that Appl has the highest consumer satisfaction in the industry. See this, for example, from a month ago.
http://www.macdailynews.com/gfx/article_gfx/2009/090218_cw_satisfaction.gif
@Stern: So a site that has Mac in the name is going to have pro mac data!?
sigh,
APPLE FAILURE RATES ARE THE HIGHEST....
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Squaretrade-888128.html
read it. digest it. this is FACT.
Apple quality SUCKS a big one.
@kctroll: Apple also has the best warranties and the highest levels of customer satisfaction when it comes to tech support issues.
I had a lot more problems with my PowerBook a few years ago than I thought I should. That's why they replaced it with a much newer, much better MacBook Pro for free. And I haven't had a problem with it yet.
And as far as "READ[ing] the NEWS" goes, I think you're on to something. Try it:
I had in mind the (several iterations of) Consumer Reports reviews, in which Apple hardware and tech support consistently rank at the top. While you can't read the whole reviews online without a subscription, you can get an idea from the "Consider Tech Support" portion, here:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/computers-internet/computer/computers/overview/computers-ov.htm
If you want a review of reliability, you could try these links (representing the last couple of years), where, again, Apple is consistently best:
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/57675
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/19436/
I'm not saying nothing ever goes wrong with Apple machines. In fact, I've already admitted to being the owner of an Apple product that had problems. Believe me, I'm a long way from thinking Apple is a perfect company. I am, however, claiming that you're uninformed, a troll, a hypocrite, and a moron. Choke on scorpions, kc. Choke on scorpions.
whatever.
Personally, I've had a couple of issues with Apple products that were replaced at the store, no questions asked, and I didn't even have a receipt.
Dell may claim better service, but I've personally spent hours on the phone with Dell's shitty Indian support trying to resolve issues that were clearly their fault, such as installing the wrong video card, and claiming I needed to pay for a replacement, then after the support issue crossed the 30 day mark, claiming that it was now too late to fix the problem. That next day thing only applies to their business machines or if you pay for their support plans. You're not getting in next day in home replacement if you have a problem with your $500 Inspiron and didn't purchase their extra warranty; this I can state as a fact.
You can find stuff to back up your argument whatever side you're on, but my personal experience with Apple products has been only positive dating back to 2003 when I got my first iPod.
To me the problem isn't if Apple stuff breaks, it's if it gets fixed. In my experience, it does.
No kidding, 50% of all the macbook around me had to be return for hd failure or screen problems. Maybe 20% on that had to be return again. I dont buy mac anymore (I like to built my own now) but im in motion graphics and TV then all directors and graphic designers around me have macs.
Still I think mac are good products. Its just not my cup of tea anymore... I did pay 3000$ for a goddam G4 in the past but I dont spend that kind of money on computer now because in 6 month it will be obsolete anyway. Spending 1200$ per year on Hardware is the best ratio price/power I have found. Right now the sweet spot is on the i7 2.66ghz cpu. for 900$ you get a monster machine. No need of Xeon, its just silly when only 3D package will profit from 8 cores.
@ kay-cee-cee boy MMIV
That particular report has been raised a few times recently. There is no problem at all with that report, on its own. The problem is that there have been many, many reports on warranty returns by many different groups, and they all come to different results. Different methodologies, different geographical areas, etc.
It is easy to find reports that state that Apple is #1, same with Sony, and Dell, and HP; conversely it is all to easy to find a report by some group saying that "company X has the highest warranty returns and is therefor least reliable". There is no one accepted measure, and so mentioning one report as though it is the only report is a misleading practice.
yeh I agree, if apple put out a midrange desktop tower they would steal another percent or two from windows market share, but that's apple, money over market share, this is why windows has always been so successful, it's got company's that support it that understand people want the lowest price on the most functional computer, some would argue that apple computers are more functional for the price, but if you delve deep, pc's are always slightly less expensive for what you get
CraigJ -
Agreed that Dell's consumer customer support has much to be desired, but since we're talking about a Mac Pro with likely 'applecare' support, I'd compare this to Dell's Business support, which is almost unbeatable. Opting for the 4 year, 24/7 4-hour onsite service is a smart idea for mission critical business systems. Business support give you a line that calls the same support team directly (based in the US). Have a drive failure at midnight? They'll be there to replace it by 4am. That service has saved my butt many times. No additional charge.
Apple doesn't offer any support like that. Not even close.
Apple has had consistently high ratings for reliability in Consumer Reports. Every issue I've read places them at #1. Perhaps things have changed in the past year or two, but I'd like proof.
But the real reason I came to post is that my Aug '06 Mac Pro has slide-out trays for RAM. I don't see how that's difficult to upgrade.
@ iphonerulez
Poor dude, doesn't know the difference between "poor" and "pure".
Yup. Looks like a Mac Pro.
not entirely. mine looks like it's much deeper than this one. Has the depth of the chassis been shortened? Can you guys confirm?
Four HDD bays across the case? Same as always. Apple's site confirms the dimensions are the same.
http://support.apple.com/specs/#macpro
thanks man! must just be the perspective of the first image...
Wonder how hard it would be to install an ATX board in there.
I love that case, but Mac's just aren't for me.
Yep it looks exactly like a Mac Pro.
And considering how long in the tooth that case design is that's not a good thing.
It seems to me that the only reason they added the removeable tray was to show some evidence that they actually give a damn about the state of their pro desktop design. Practically speaking it's an almost worthless addition since the Pro upgrade possibilities and frequency at which that happens are minute. I've busted open my old Pro case to upgrade the RAM twice in 5 years.
This appears to have been solely added to give the impression of "progress" when in fact it's more akin to Apple just treading water.
And before anyone rattles off the old "if it ain't broke ..." cliche, you're wrong. There is always a way to make a better design. That's why Apple don't sell blue bubble or lamp iMacs now.
Of course it looks like a Mac Pro, what did you expect, one of those gamer PC cases that looks like the new batmobile?
Cash, why would you want to put an ATX board in this machine? If you want to run Windows or Linux the out-of-the-box hardware will do that very well... it's like putting a crap domestic engine into a Ferrari because you don't like the music on the stereo.
@FNG
it is the exact same size case, I put them side by side.
@arkweld
It looks harder to change the RAM than the last design IMO. On the last one, each set of four memory slots was on a small removable card. Now you have to remove the whole thing with two HUGE heat sinks attached.
Look at that video and tell me Apple doesn't design beautiful hardware!
Apple doesn't design beautiful hardware!
It looks like a piece of industrial kitchen equipment. Does Denny's use these to clean silverware?
Nevermind, Denny's doesn't clean their silverware.
Apple designs beautiful cheese graters!
Beautiful! As in = 75% design 25% ergonomic
I do 3D work and I would hate to all day on them mouse and keyboards. I take my Logitech Wave keyboard and G5 mouse over them beautiful hardwares.
I do design work all day on that mouse and keyboard and don't have a problem with it.
The MacPro I use at work is silent and fast, although a little RAM starved at the moment...
@roach last I checked you CAN use your beloved wave keyboard on amy mac and the same goes for the mouse. Not only that but Logitech actually has a control panel application that integrates very will with OS X so if there is any fancy feature that the logitech hardware has you can configure it and use just like you can on windows. And before anyone starts arguing except for really expensive gaming rigs no computer comes standard with Logitech wave. And if we must look at default keyboard options Dell and pretty much all computer vendors have really cheap peripherals and are terrible to use.
and damn do they make you pay for it
at least it doesnt look like some alien spaceship with a billion blue LED's, a couple of seethrough panels to enjoy the sight of tangled wires and exposed chips, oh and a pc fanboy alongside who cares more about what the pc can benchmark rather than how he can use it.
It just looks like a case with a couple convenient handles on top and good airflow from having a giant vent for a front panel. I'll admit most of Apple's stuff is visually distinctive and often good looking. But this is just an aluminum case.
You can use PC keyboards on Macs, as long as they are USB or Bluetooth. Often you end up with no eject key though. So you have to search the internet for the way on how to turn the eject icon in the menu bar back on (which was turned off with 10.5 or something).
@cg0def
I know you can use PC keyboards and mouse on a Macs. But I was taking about Apple's approach to design. Apple design = 75% design 25% ergonomic
Beside Apple hardware is too restrictive for my 3D need. I don't get to choose the video card l want. Rather, Apple choose it for you. l feel sorry for people who has to rely on what Apple release. I mean, these so called workstation doesn't even offer professional quadro cards. Apple has there people by their balls.
@roach
"Beside Apple hardware is too restrictive for my 3D need. I don't get to choose the video card l want. Rather, Apple choose it for you. l feel sorry for people who has to rely on what Apple release. I mean, these so called workstation doesn't even offer professional quadro cards. Apple has there people by their balls."
I mean, these so called 3D people doesn't have knowledge of english.
looks like a tiny sexy refrigerator
Surely you mean "penryn-based predecessor"...?
Cue the "don't call me Shirley" jokes...
@cg0def
Of course you serviced Dell/Gateway 5-10 times more than Mac's....Mac probably still had
Well the distribution of machines was 40% Macs 55% PCs and about 5% Sun stations and we are talking about something like 5000+ machines. But Macs are very expensive and the tech support is quite inflexible.
BTW you posted in the wrong thread.
@bjsguess
OK I will bite.... so you think your computer can hang with the Mac Pro, huh?
Try to beat a score of 23126 on the Cinebench R10 multi-core rendering test (scored on my 2008 Mac Pro... not one of these new machines) :
http://www.maxon.de/pages/download/cinebench_e.html
Even an overclocked 4GHz Quad core cannot come close to a Mac Pro with 8 Xeon cores chewing away at something. For professonals who need the incredible power of an 8 core Xeon workstation, there is really nothing out there better for the money than the Mac Pro.
Which brings me to MY challenge. Try building and equivalent Xeon workstation with the same processors and same features as the Mac Pro for less. It cant be done... I looked hard at my options when I was buying, and Apple is a good 1,500 dollars LESS than their competition! Even if you build one yourself!
Those Xeon quadcores in the Mac Pro are 1000 dollars EACH on newegg so 2,000 dollars just for the processors alone! Hmmm, these new Mac Pros are seeming like a deal now for a lot of people, I bet. At least for those who NEED this kind of power, anyway. For gamers or websurfers, this machine is silly. But for 3D, video, scientific applications, and anything else heavily multithreade... or for someone who runs quite a few programs at the same time, this machine is amazing.
This absolutely insane computing power is why I... as a PC user... bought a Mac Pro, and it has been the best PC I have ever owned, by far.
Must suck to be whoever owns this when one of those pins in the tray connector goes bad...or when the PSU fails..
sure, it's nice to look at, and i'm sure it's plenty fast, but if i'm paying top dollar, i want to be involved in the design and build process
But this is for photographers/designers who dont know sqat about the internals of a PC and want something they know will be a beast.
And I thought that this was targeted at the uber-geeks at Engadget who only think about the specs and lowest price and if it can play Crysis or GTA 4. [just acting like all the other trolls right there]
I'm willing to bet that 75% of the people who moan about the bad specs of Macs don't have PCs of those specs.
Why would the pins fail anymore than any other pin connector setup that's only ever unplugged once in the lifetime of the machine? How often do you switch out your ram?
Yeah, curse all those times i've had a pin failure, because those _do_ exist.