While we broke the news of the
ZuneHD to the world as we did
the original, we have no way to verify the authenticity of this new image originating at
Windows Mobile Power User and now trotting itself around the Intersphere fueled by the adrenaline of fanboy fantasies. We've been skeptically going over it pixel-by-pixel (what is that on the back? A camera, a screw-hole?) as this is the notorious period that always follows a product leak when dubious PhotoShops and fanart begins flooding our tips box. Fortunately,
Zunited's sources have stepped up with an assertion that the pic is in fact an authentic ZuneHD. So let's turn an eye to the specs, the glorious, almost absurdly high-end specs that accompany the picture.
Zunited's sources won't touch these and we're keeping them at arm's length for now under the it's too-good-to-be-true heading. Click through to see what we mean.
[Via
Zunited]
So, if we're to believe the ZuneHD specs that "trickled into" the inbox of
Windows Mobile Power User then this is what's coming from Microsoft:
- multi-touch capacitive OLED screen in a 16:9 aspect ratio
- 3D Xbox game support (whatever that is)
- playback of "HD media" available from Zune Marketplace
- TV-out from what looks like a mini-HDMI port on the left-side
- HD Radio
- choice of 16GB or 32GB of storage (not a lot for HD content)
- wireless sync
- multi-touch "browser" of the Internet-type, presumably (so why nothing shown on the main menu in the image above?)
- launches this Fall, "around September" in the US, Canada, UK, France and possibly other European countries.
- likely to be a "showcase" for Windows Mobile 7 when released (Huh? WinMo7 won't be out until 2010. Perhaps they mean early WinMo7 betas expected in November?)
While the rumored specs are impressive they aren't completely unprecedented. Already, we've seen Samsung's massive
OmniaHD sporting an HDMI jack and biggie 3.7-inch capacitive AMOLED display stretched into a 16:9 aspect ratio. Thing is, the OmniaHD's display has a less than HD 360 x 640 pixel resolution -- HD in this case means 720p video capture and HD video out. Definitely haven't seen hand-held sized (less than 4-inches) capacitive OLEDs sporting a resolution of 1280 x 720 pixels yet.
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
posted Apr 15th 2009 6:39AM
Thank you Engadget for finally posting this. :p
meh, take your good natured charm elsewhere. ;-)
Thomas
More to come. ;p
Yeah, go be contentedly polite at someone who CARES! :D
Aww, shucks! Group hug, you guys!
/me pukes
Anyways, back to the story - the original render looks totally legit, but these specs are fishy and it honestly just seems like same fanboi took the original render and ran with it. The back looks way too iPhone-esque and the specs seem to high-end for microsoft - who knows to costs low and margins high.
That being said... zomg! this thing looks really nice. Such high resolution, OLED, and most importantly... not an iPod! I swear, if I see one more person walking through nyc with an iPhone or iPod touch...
What green indicator light on the front? You mean the little CGI sphere on the picture? If you look at the picture when it's tilted, there's no such green indicator light.
http://www.engadget.com/photos/is-this-the-zune-hd/1486869/
mam00th, true, was looking at a flying square. updated.
Props to Saad... Zune & Zune pass FTW. If any apple fanboy gave it a chance, they really would like it.
I have no clue whats hard to believe about the resolution, besides it being innovative and not apple.
I can honestly say I'm jealous of the interface and apps on the iPhone over my samsung eternity, but my laptop is tethered to my phone for instant 3g access... and my laptop can play fairly demanding 3d games on it.
Some people just have different wants/needs no reason to hate.
IF this were real:
There's no claim that the resolution of the screen itself is HD resolution, and it very well could be 800x480, which would still be pretty damned nice.
WHY I don't think it's real:
32GB storage capacity seems too low for something being touted as "HD". 64GB should really be the minimum to accommodate a large music collection (debates on FLAC being moot) as well has having room to store a few hours worth of mixed HD/SD video, especially if its marketing is pushing towards HD. I guess I COULD see 32/64GB options, but certainly NOT 16GB on the low end.
But the main reason I think it's fake:
The font stands out like a sore thumb. I can't think of a time when MS has ever used ALL CAPS for their interface fonts. It appears to go against all the style guides that MS has been using and steering towards the past few years with either "Words" or "words", not "WORDS". I doubt even alpha interfaces would have been using ALL CAPS.
@fieldcar
I'm an Apple fanboy and i gave every Zune a chance and they all sucked and i cant imagine this being much better
@hoopspenguin
I'm a Microsoft fanboy and i gave every iPod a chance and they all sucked and i cant imagine the 3.0 version being much better.
YES! Finally a Zune in Europe! Don't give it an absurd price and I'll buy it just for videos!
Oh hey, I think I just realised what that dot is on the back!
The photo is at a weird angle, so it's a bit hard to see, but is it possible that that is a Stylus bay?
Capacitative screen, doubt there's a stylus
Is it wrong that I want it?
Yes.
Because an iPod Touch is better than these fanboy'd specs, in my eyes.
-Sam
@Arjun
Yes, because this is in all likelihood some fanboy's wet dream and not a real product.
@sam
Are you blind, perchance?
You're not wrong for wanting something that would live up to our expectations, but I have no doubt the Zune will not live up to expectations.
>Because an iPod Touch is better than these fanboy'd specs, in my eyes.
If, indeed, this is a Tegra powered device, your eyes are worthless.
I don't see why you all are screaming fanboy on this issue. Are there really a bunch of Zune fanboys running around? That sounds a little trumped up to me. Someone said it and everyone ran with it. Judge the piece of equipment on it alone and not on your belief in a mysterious group of fanboys.
My wife loves her zune and I like my iphone for music needs. If this device is real, then it looks nice and would make me consider grabbing one too.
@MioTheGreat
Flame me if you want, but I have a solid Microsoft source who said they were working on a tegra-based device. I just assumed it was a phone, but this is probably it (with the hdmi out)
No, for I too would like to rub against its metal cold body. However, judging by the specs (multitouch OLED screen? Full-on 3D games? mini-HDMI port + the hardware required to use it?) this thing will either a) never come out, b) will come out but severely lacking in these specs, or c) will cost on par with a MacBook Air (strangely, more powerful though...)
I don't see why the HD in the name has to refer to the screen real-estate. If this thing was based on Tegra it would be perfectly capable of running HD content and even outputting it to an HDTV. Is any other PMP capable of doing that at the moment?
I think it would be quite cool to be able to download a 1080p video from the Marketplace and watch it on multiple devices without having to re-encode it.
You might see it running 1024x600 @ 3.4" though since 1024x600 can be found on a 4.3" screen.
and yes if it's tegra it would be awesome but it would also be slightly thicker than the renders.
I was ready to believe this was real until I read the proposed specs. That just sounds WAY too much like a dream product to all be true.
I agree. This sounds way too ridiculous to be real. Especially with "3D Xbox game support". What does that even mean?
It means nothing. It won't happen. 3D Xbox games come on DVDs, which are 4.7GB. You would be able to fit three games on a 16GB Zune with little room left for anything else. The 3D graphics processing requirements can not be fulfilled, even with Tegra guts. 1080p output doesn't mean 125 million polygons per second processing throughput, which is what the XBOX can do.
This shouldn't have even been posted, its so blatant. At least it should have been posted as a confirmed fanboy render.
The specs are not real, but the render is. However, within the render, the GUI is outdated; they've moved on from that. Anyways... This thing won't play Xbox games for real, more like XNA Game Studio 3d API games. The old Zunes could play 2D XNA games, so this is just a logical step forward. I expect to see 64 Gigs as well...
@ashan
Actually, I've downloaded several 3d Xbox games through XBLA, which has a 200mb limit. Also, XBOX (and XBOX 360) games come on DVD9 discs, which top out at ~8.5gb, not 4.7gb.
I don't think anyone was proposing that this little device was a portable XBOX. It's the XBLA titles, and other XNA-series software that MIGHT run on it. I doubt it though.
The Archos 5 and 7 can do that, outputs to 720p!
If this is sort of based on the Touch HD hardware with 800x480 screen ill buy it in an instant.
Even when you know that it has no phone like the Touch HD? But I know what you mean.
it does seem that mobile makers are making a habit out of putting HD in the titles then fitting ~4" screens that are 800x480. Though thats not to say i wouldn't like it to be able to play HD content simply so id never have to reencode video for my PMP or could output it to a TV or something.
Still this thing is beaten by the Onda HD 545 which really kicks ass and does 720P on its 5 inch screen, only reason i don't buy it NO MOBILE. i cannot be bothered carrying a wallet in one pocket and a mobile + PMP in the other.
oh ye and its beaten in the sense that '3d xbox games' is complete bullshit. However i am pretty sure that Onda does not have a touch screen nor HDMI tv out (but it does have tv out) ...
Doesn't seem right to me.
@Premature ejaculation man: best username ever!
In combination with his avatar... LOL
Not to laugh at another man's misfortune, but HAHAHA....
i love it also
So when you saw this did you happen to, how can i put this lightly..........jizz in your pants?
I'm perfectly fine with my iPod Touch 2nd Generation.
Thank goodness. We were all worried for you.
No, screw you, you absolutely HAVE TO BUY THIS!!!!!11 NOW!!!!
get an iphone damnit. touch is useless!!!!!!!!!
Are we just going to ignore that the render of the back of the device looks completely screwed up? It doesn't even look like it's the backside of the first image, and the logo is off-center.
I belive it is centered. Look at the lines toward the edges, I think the back is actually 3 sided. The edges are angled.
Yeah, it looks like the edges have a bezel.
Yep, and that "screw" hole I think is just a "design doohickey", if you look carefully you can see two more on the other side.
Ugh. Where's the storage?
I was hoping for an upgrade from my Zune 80.
They learned the wrong lessons from the touch. I'd love to see a HD based ipod or Zune touch. Solid State is great and has its advantages, but I still need storage for my music player. Maybe by the time i need to replace my Z80 flash will be big/cheap enough.
Well wake up, since flash memory is so cool, you don't need 80 gigs.
You see HDD is so lame that a great and perfect so far 80Gigs HDD where you could fit ALL your audio and still had lots of space for the video is not as good as a 16 Gigs of flash where you can put half you audio and 3 movies...
Or at least if it's not as good, it's damn cheaper SO WHY THE F**K DID YOU PUT FLASH EVERYWHERE ?
I had a 20Gb multimedia player in 2001.. and now for the same price they are trying to sell me a 16gb multimedia player and it's supposed to feel great I know but I feel like shit about it ...
@Felix: maybe so, but I feel the price is justified, having replaced the HDD in both Zunes and iPods, they really don't last that long, being so portable. I've yet to see any flash-based media player cease to function because of a storage medium failure. So, longevity is worth it IMO. Besides, I have a computer to keep my whole library on; 16GB is pretty good, especially where I can switch it up just about whenever.
But Having 80+GB in your pocket is nice... while it lasts.
sorry but that image just screams fake, look at the back, logo position, black bar along the bottom, aluminum...remind you of anything?
Total 12 years old HTC touch 2 photoshop.
You're lame to give this any credit engadget ^^
would be nice to see if this ever comes out looking close to this.....
I'll get one as I want a new Zune U just hate that it most likely wont be any bigger than 64GB
Looks interesting- not sure I'm as excited by it as I should be though. That said, it's gonna have to offer at least 64gb (assuming it's flash) of storage to make me give up my custom Zune80 and I'd imagine something of that capacity would be miles out of my price range. Still, get it launched in the UK and we've at least got something to look forward to.
Don't get too excited. They said it'll launch in France and maybe other EU countries. That is a perfect misunderstanding of the EU.
The Eurozone is a single Market. If it's launched in France, it is launched in the entire eurozone. This would be the same as launching in one state of the US. In fact, I believe there are actually laws against just launchig in one eurozone country and the price of the product in each one.
Just another example of how the specs are fake.
There's no "podcast" menu. For that alone, I'll call fake.
is that some joke I don't get? My 2nd gen Zune doesn't have one either...
If I'm not mistaken, the podcast menu will only show up if you have podcasts synced to the Zune.
no it wasn't a joke... if you update your device software you will have podcast...
You only get the podcast menu entry if you have podcasts loaded.
I've currently got a first gen iPod touch but I'm about ready to jump ship. I'm not paying for anymore software updates and iTunes is seriously buggy on Vista x64.
I'd buy a Zune HD, if:
- It comes to the UK
- The Zune subscription deal comes to the UK
- There's a model with 64GB of flash
Happy to pay up to £400.
Bump up the capacity to at LEAST 100GB (128GB SSD would be pretty sweet, but what about 256/512?) and ability to play FLAC and I'm sold.
I really wouldn't care if this thing was a brick (well not literally, but it doesn't have to be super thin). You can't compete with Apple's flagship iPod with just 32GB (and you'll have to do more than 32GB to truly pull market share from the iPod Touch). At least make larger sizes an option, that's all I'm saying. I've got 150GB of FLAC music, and I've hardly started.
You're the exception to the rule.
As in there are hardly that many people with that much music and especially in that format. That's just a waste of space and no company will ever make a player to suit that.
Yeah 512 GB of flash ? you can dream buddy.
TOO BIG TOO FIT IN HERE
Do you copy ? just buy an Archos 7 320GB, it plays flac and all the video you want up to 720p !
Really now? "No company will ever make a player to suit that"?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/10/puresilicon-introduces-worlds-first-1tb-2-5-inch-ssd/
That's all I really have to say to rebut that argument. With OLED screens slowly becoming the norm on the higher end PMPs and Phones (and we all know the higher end trickles down rather quickly in the technology realm), and battery life getting better and better, the other real big limiting factor has been storage capacity, and as that's a universal issue, it grows at quite a more rapid pace than those other two technologies.
"That much music". By that you must have obviously been referring to the data size, not the amount of albums I have. Here's how FLAC equates to data size if you're not real sure on the issue:
Third Eye Blind's "Semi Charmed Life" (~4:30) = ~33.6MB
That's one song. In full quality. With FLAC's lossless compression. The corresponding album clocks in @ 391MB.
Yes, FLAC files do take up a lot of space...compared to lossy audio formats. But HD movies take up more space than SD movies! Remind me what happened there? Oh, right, Sony made Blu Ray - a format with more capacity. Capacity never stopped technology from progressing. With faster data networks and higher capacity, I do believe that lossless audio downloads will become MUCH more commonplace within the next 3-5 years. If only for Apple to have something to unveil when it runs out of buttons to take away.
But seriously, what I'm saying is that Microsoft needs to well...pull an Apple (in the good way). Come out with something that leapfrogs the competition instead of trying to match it. They've got the cash, that's for sure. Start you know...DOING something with it.
And as for the most recent response there...that just further adds to my argument. There are players out there that have these types of capacities already. Microsoft should continue to evolve it -> 320GB HD becomes a 320GB SSD (eliminates any possible skipping, especially with the larger lossless files). Just about anyone can come out with a basic PMP these days. MS needs to get off their ass.
All that extra space would be awesome! The issue is not technical feasibility, it's monetary. If they were to put a 256 GB SSD in there it would end up boosting the cost several hundred dollars for just the storage (not counting the chipset and OLED screen).
If they sold the device at a loss they could "leapfrog" Apple, who will never sell at a loss. However, in this economy, I doubt the shareholders would be very happy about that, and unfortunately microsoft is a public company and has to listen to them. (which reminds me of the joys of working for a private company, w00t)
Sell at a loss to grab market share? I say go ahead - it worked for Sony and Blu Ray with the PS3.
And I know that the 256GB *option* would be expensive. I'm just saying, make a high end version that, even if it commands a premium, is truly top of the line. Stick it to the competition.
When there's competition, in the end, consumers will win.
Man oh man would I love to see them actually do that. Let me just say that my confidence is not high... the most likely flash storage to be release will be 32 gb and 64 gb (because last year's ipod touch was 16 and 32 and it seems to double each year.) My guess is that the storage will continue to creep up at this exponential rate.. if they quadrupled the storage and allowed it to be a mass storage device (so I can save word docs and others on it) I'd be waiting in line to buy it on day one.
I have the zune 30 right now and love the subscription service... My ears are not good enough to hear the difference between mp3 and FLAC so I don't really need to space right now (I tend to delete and re-download much of my music anyhow so that I'm never using up too much space). Bigger news for me would be if they partnered with netflix or the video industry and offered their subscription service for their video marketplace.
Thebaldwin5:
Its not just music. Even a modest music collection is around 20 Gb. Then you need at least a couple of gb for podcasts - more if thryre video. Then you need some space for movies and tv. If they'd enable using it as a hard drive the space would be even more useful.
Im not using the full capacity of my Z80, but I'd easily exceed a 32 gb flash device. I like the high capacity to grow in to. The capacity/cost of flash players isnt changing in pace with the needs of a large segment of the market.
@ Robrain: I voted you down for mentioning Third Eye Blind's "Semi Charmed Life", and also for not understanding the costs of developing and manufacturing different devices on this large a scale, even within the same product line. But mostly for listening to Third Eye Blind.
Unless you are tied to FLAC (why?) then just straight convert to WMA Lossless. Zune plays WMA-L.
I rip to WMA-L, but transcode to 192k WMA to the Zune. No matter how great my headphones are, there is no way I can hear the difference when my listening environment is urban streets and public transportation.
Do I sound like I want to re-convert my 150GB of music to a different format every time I buy a new PMP? FLAC is the most widely used, widely compatible compressed lossless format. Not to mention, it's open/free.
Links straight from ground zero:
"FLAC stands out as the fastest and most widely supported lossless audio codec, and the only one that at once is non-proprietary, is unencumbered by patents, has an open-source reference implementation, has a well documented format and API, and has several other independent implementations."
http://flac.sourceforge.net/features.html
http://flac.sourceforge.net/comparison.html
http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html#hardware
WMA Lossless, why? What other devices is WMA-Lossless compatible with? Or Apple Lossless for that matter? Why can I Rockbox an iPod and play my FLAC files on it, but Apple can't find a way to get their own device to play that format?
You numbskulls who throw down the "just use a proprietary format" line, I can't figure out how you don't understand that it's a losing argument. You read this blog, don't you? Locking down a device = bad for the consumer.
There's only a few areas that PMP's can really increase: storage capacity/storage type(SSD), battery life, screen quality/technology, design/input. MS is going to have to do something to push the envelope to really grab any market share away from Apple. To be honest, I'd rather pay extra to have my entire full quality music collection portable, than say, 10 more hours of battery life. I can always find an outlet or USB port to charge my PMP as long as it can last 12-20 hours playing audio.
I don't think that MS or any other PMP manufacturer are the ones researching HD/SSD technology. They just buy what's available. So if the capacities are available...make use of them. That's what I'm saying.
If you remove your white earbuds for a little, and turned off the Gospel of Steve, you might realize there's a bigger world out there. One without restrictions on what you can do with your own stuff.
"The ZuneHD will also support 3D Xbox games, but it is unclear what form this will take."
And where is the embedded led pico projector? high bandwidth satellite uplink? GPS? foldable jetpack?
And...finally: will it play Crysis?
Actually it plays Crysis on the highest settings, I tested it today.
Meaning 3D xbox arcade games, not crysis-type. Just a 3d processor, which the current Zune doesn't have.
Xbox live arcade games means it can play Doom.
Sweet Jesus.
*drool*
HD would be wasted on this device.
I cant even fit all of my music on my Zune30, and your telling me Im supposed to cram HD video AND music onto this thing?
Oh, and I still think these renders are so absolutely horrible that I have no faith in them, nor do I in the spec that was also leaked.
The WM7 thing makes perfect sense. This has no need for the phone functionality of the new mobile OS, and has no need for user customizations that WinMo usually provides.
There is alot of code that isnt needed for the Zune HD, so they could have a working base of WM7 already, which will be built on top of for the Zune HD. Say for example WM7 will carry legacy compatibility for 6.1 programs. Not needed for the Zune. Exchange connection? No.
And the use of the Zune as a precursor to the actual WM7 is a smart idea. It lets developers to have a feel for the typical hardware that will run WM7 when it is officially released on phones, and allows for a nice catalog of programs to be assembled before its release.
Looks far better than Sony X series.
These specs seem to good to be true but they are accomplishable.
On a side note the Omnia HD doesn't have a HDMI jack as you call it. It only displays hd content over DLNA. So there is no physical tv-out... sadly.
If these specs turn out to be true, I... I ... don't even know what I would do, actually. I've been trying to type out something about buying an iPod Touch, throwing it against a wall, and then the ZuneHD would bust through that very wall like the Koolaid Man, but then that whole scenario sounded ridiculous.
Oh Yeah!
Confirmation..well sort of
http://twitter.com/volvoshine/status/1522657692
Holy Crap!
Please don't be flash storage
Please don't be flash storage
Please don't be flash storage
Please don't be flash storage!
HDOLED
Hmmm...
Must be expensive.
and don't put ZUNE in the front, it's going to look like any phone.
OMG! If the specs are true, then this would be my dream PMP. The only other thing i would want is support for FLAC, and a responsive and speedy touch UI. If this comes to fruition, then sign me up for one.
it would be awsome for microsoft to put out something truly amazing that would have some xbox 360 features built in the 360 has a great online platform just begging to be intergrated with a handheld. Does anybody else remember that whole live anywhere thing they talked about a handheld would be perfect to keep you connected with xbox live. While i am sure expectations and hopes will fall short one can dream of a handheld that has some great xbox 360 like features and is also a zune but at last we dream.
Colour me extremely sceptical.
However, if it does finally make it across the Atlantic then I would love to consider this. HD in my pocket?
Yes please!
Zune software for the mac would be a nice touch too- some sort of serious iTunes competition on for OSX would perhaps introduce a little competition...
I understand that the market is smaller; but this isn't some small start up company, this is MS; I'd love to see an all-out assault on the iPod line on all formats. I'm not an 'iHater' or 'M$-slater' either... serious competition is good for the consumer.
Where's the podcast option on the screen? I have my doubts about this being legit.
Or the Settings option, or the Audiobooks option. Or, ahem, kind of a big thing to leave out if you are trying to push HD content - the Marketplace option. There is no "Extras" option in the current UI. Since MSFT has a history of keeping the UI consistent across all Zune devices, this would not only have to be a new Zune render, it would have to be a preview of Zune 4.0 software.
Audiobook and Podcast don't show up on the main screen unless you have some on your device as for settings IDK, probably in extras I would guess. You can also scroll down if necessary.
All in all this looks really nice, I don't know that I believe all the specs but price would be interesting if most of them got put in.
What is peoples views on having an SSD option and an HDD option?
The guy who has leaked almost everything so information-wise so far has confirmed that that picture is real, but the UI is outdated. So, just because the UI looks wrong does not discount the render. I'd imagine, though, that Marketplace would be under Social, and Settings would be in Extras.
I have a slight problem believing that MSFT would produce an all-touch Zune. Back at E3 '08 (I think it was then), when they announced that XNA-made games would be portable to the Zune platform, they were touting how great the controls on the Zune were for gaming. Removing any non-screen controls means that any XNA games designed for the Xbox would have to undergo some significant changes to be playable on a pure touch device. On-screen controls would have to be programmed in, affecting screen real estate which might force changes to other portions of the game. It just seems like MSFT would be shooting themselves in the foot here in their attempts to promote XNA as an alternative to the Apple App Store game market, or at the very least segmenting their own games market significantly.
Of course, they might have decided that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks in this instance, but I'm skeptical.
True unless this is sold with a snap-on controller accessory for additional profit.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/19/icontrolpad-gamepad-frags-demons-on-camera/
@ Thomas Ricker
You're right. Apple and MS should do that if they really want serious portable gaming. Although, jack up the price to $50 bucks and give me dual analog sticks, and I would be as sound as a pound.
And there is where I think Sony could really make a splash with a PSP 2, although I don't know if they have the design chops or the balls. If they could basically produce a device that was an iPod Touch with dual control sticks, a la those slide-screen mockups floating around for forever, that would be a pretty compelling device. And by "an iPod Touch" I mean the device would have to have everything from a browser to a streamlined music/video player to a robust app store. I don't think it's going to happen, but it would be awesome to have slightly more power than a PS2, with a compelling game control scheme and competitive PMP/UPMC features.
It's a fake image. The two are different regarding the sides.