Updated Windows 7 and Vista downgrade rights leaked

Are you ready to have your mind blown by some truly incredible gadget news? No, we're not talking about our peek at the Zune HD with none other than Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer. In fact, we have spicy hot new Windows licensing details. According to Tech ARP, Microsoft will soon allow end users to downgrade from Windows 7 Professional or Ultimate editions to either Windows Vista Business or Window XP Professional. If that weren't enough, OEMs may now choose to install XP Professional, XP Pro Tablet, or XP Pro X64, instead of Windows Vista Business / Ultimate -- as long as they fulfill a bunch of legalistic requirements regarding activation markers, certificates of authenticity, Windows Vista Logo criteria, and other stuff you probably don't care about. It looks like the repudiation of Windows Vista is continuing apace... and we're guessing that it doesn't stop until it results in a series of war crimes tribunals in The Hague. (We can dream, can't we?)

[Alan Strangis @ May 29th 2009 10:28AM]

The war crimes line was funny, only to be spoiled by the 'we can dream' at the end.

[joseph.flatley @ May 29th 2009 10:46AM]

Everyone's a critic...

[Makavre @ May 29th 2009 11:00AM]

yeah, i also thought that last line was rather cheesy ....

[Steveorevo @ May 29th 2009 11:27PM]

Meh, just a bitter reflection on Microsoft's business practices on Sillicon Valley. Whether you're Sybase from which they stole SQL Server from, or Netscape (who got too cocky too soon), or GEOS the better but short lived Window Manager, Stac (the forerunner in realtime compression), or cutting edge graphics company Caligari (at least Softimage and 3DS Max survived), the list goes on and on... who haven't they screwed?

[Ethos @ May 29th 2009 10:31AM]

Just personally I can't see myself ever "downgrading" to XP/Vista after using the Windows 7 RC. It's intuitive, Quick, efficient and beautiful. But I still can always admire a company's support for their older products. Unlike some other businesses that forget about the previous customers.

[kjb434 @ May 29th 2009 10:48AM]

Has Win7RC been stable?

I have downloaded the iso file and was going to do a clean install and replace my current WinXP.

For the most part, I've read it has been. Just want another opinion from a user out there.

[JrA 2I9 pSu @ May 29th 2009 10:52AM]

@ kjb434

I've had Windows RC for the past few weeks and it seems pretty stable to me. I haven't had any crashes or anything freeze up beyond the point of normal programs not responding from time to time.

My only issue with it is a compatibility issue with some of the drivers that are used with Norton Anti-virus, which will probably be fixed sometime in the near future.

Why would anyone want to downgrade from Windows 7 though? In my opinion anyways, it is Vista's superior and even XP's superior in just about every way. And I held out using XP until just a few weeks ago since I wasn't a fan of Vista.

[Jonathon @ May 29th 2009 10:55AM]

Windows 7 has the same "broken" (and by 'broken', I mean 'fixed', as in 'dog') Windowing manager that won't allow you to span multiple monitors as a single desktop.
Yes, you can have many monitors, but many software titles that can only deal with one (very large) desktop without taking a serious performance hit (various CAD programs, racing games, and even Microsoft's own Flight Simulator) are restricted to being used on one monitor.

I, for one, look forward to being able to purchase a new PC (or motherboard and OS combination, more likely), and buy an XP Pro/64 license with it.

[JamesR @ May 29th 2009 10:56AM]

I've been using the RC since it came out a few weeks back and have been very happy with it but I was equally happy with beta so....

To answer your question directly: It has been rock solid. It hasn't thrown an error since install.

[MeanSpyvie @ May 29th 2009 10:58AM]

A clean install of 64bit on my quad core desktop is stable mable. An in place upgrade to 32bit Win 7 on my Turion X2 notebook... not so much.

[John Doe @ May 29th 2009 11:59AM]

@ kjb434

The stability depends on the hardware you are using. If you have a system which works well with Vista, it will work flawlessly with Win7.
I have a system with Vista Home (which runs perfectly fine). Did not want to do a clean install and depend upon an RC version of the OS, so I dual-booted it. Win7 (32-bit) works perfectly fine on my system and I have not had a single crash since the day I installed it (right after it was released). It automatically installed most of the drivers and those which were left out, just install Vista drivers and it should work. The stability of an OS depends on how the drivers and softwares behave. It is not always the fault of an OS when it crashes.

[Andir3.0 @ May 29th 2009 2:04PM]

@Jonathon:
"but many software titles that can only deal with one (very large) desktop without taking a serious performance hit (various CAD programs, racing games, and even Microsoft's own Flight Simulator) are restricted to being used on one monitor."

That has to do with how rendering is handled on PCs. They use rendering surfaces (which are basically rendering windows overlapping regular windows.) Multiple monitors require two rendering areas. One per display output. If you span your content from one monitor to the next, this is why the content will turn black if you move your window to span both screens. They would have to open up another rendering context to display information on the other screen and it can seriously degrade your performance. I don't know, however, if that's a limitation of DirectX, drivers, or the video card. I never really cared to look into it that far. Most multi-monitor applications will open new windows with rendering surfaces on each screen that is needed and branch the code to render those surfaces separately.

[Kumar @ May 29th 2009 2:09PM]

MS must really been hearing it from businesses to start offering downgrades to XP. That would mean that I'd be able to order a Dell, HP or whatever soon and know that I could upgrade it to 7 later when all of our vendor software supports it, and keep chugging along with XP.

Goodness, Vista isn't even supported yet for half of the stuff we work with at my office!

[iphonerulez @ May 29th 2009 4:01PM]

It's gonna be a serious hoot if corporations refuse to upgrade to Windows 7 based on the fact that it doesn't offer anything worthwhile and doesn't run fast enough on older computers. Even recently, IT managers said they seem to be getting along just fine running Windows XP, so why bother to upgrade. It's the new adage of "If it ain't broke, don't upgrade for something that's already broke."

http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-terrified-the-enterprise-will-stick-with-xp-2009-2
http://www.infoworld.com/d/windows/will-windows-7-be-panned-enterprise-it-298

In the past, corporations thought Microsoft would strand them, but since the Vista debacle, they're not worried at all and will take their sweet time on deciding when to upgrade. Windows XP Pro is about as good as you're gonna get and not need new hardware. Microsoft should be forced to support WinXP Pro for another five years to satisfy the corporations.

MS may have to rely on the uninformed home computer user to pay their Vista and Windows 7 R&D costs. MS can sweetly stick it to OEMs and retail buyers.

[Conceyted @ May 29th 2009 10:32AM]

Comment system is fail. How can i change my password >

[Nelson @ May 29th 2009 10:58AM]

We're a little off-topic here, aren't we?

To change your password, click on your name in one of the posts. Then log in -- You will see a link to the right allowing you to change the password.

I accept Paypal.

[Conceyted @ May 29th 2009 11:28AM]

thank you sir

[TRS @ May 29th 2009 11:32AM]

conceyted is fail

[Fernando @ May 29th 2009 10:32AM]

And the nail just drives itself deeper into the coffin, great going MS.

[AMiSH PiRATE @ May 29th 2009 10:57AM]

Don't downgrade my Mojave!

[TREX6662k5 @ May 29th 2009 11:12AM]

I have your Mojo!

[EricLMcCormick @ May 29th 2009 10:34AM]

so how many OS options will Dell give you as options when ordering a new computer? like 30? Just put Win7 on everything, it works better and I'm sure there is in option somewhere to give it the classic look if you really want it

[OneLove @ May 29th 2009 10:34AM]

You did it!

An e-mail has been sent to confirm your e-mail address, as well as a password for you to use if you comment regularly. Click on the link within the e-mail to activate your comment and password!

:(

[offtheheezi @ May 29th 2009 10:35AM]

I will compare this to when a cat has kittens, then proceeds to eat half of the litter. I'm sure there's a deep analogy in there.

[AniMill @ May 29th 2009 10:39AM]

I don't get it - Why "downgrade" to Vista from Win7?! Win7 is going to KILL Vista (thankfully)...

[Jay Evans @ May 29th 2009 10:44AM]

Because even with compatibility mode some software and hardware is not compatible with Windows 7 (yet). Works perfect under Vista just not with 7.

[insky @ May 29th 2009 11:13AM]

The only program I've found that doesn't work in Windows 7 but works in Vista is WindowsBlinds....well it doesn't work in the 64 bit version of 7. Considering Windows 7 is the biggest change in the GUI since Windows 95, I'm not really surprised.

[joeybeast @ May 29th 2009 10:39AM]

Have some balls, Ballmer.
Windows 7 is good.
It's not Vista.

Does anyone know if XP ever had this "downgrade" option?

[jakem @ May 29th 2009 10:42AM]

Yes it did. All business versions of Windows come with downgrade rights to any other supported business edition.

[kjb434 @ May 29th 2009 10:51AM]

That have to do this. Many specialized applications take time to become compatible with newer version of windows (or its components).

I my office, we still use WinXP and are keeping Internet Explorer 6. New version of IE can't run our Intranet WebApps for internal use.

Although it's easy to upgrade the OS and it's components, it can be expensive and tough to upgrade third party software for specific businesses.

[tom @ May 29th 2009 10:52AM]

XP never had downgrade option, because the only thing it dropped was DOS (I think). Which most of us don't miss much, I hope.

[Daza @ May 29th 2009 11:15AM]

You'd find it hard to believe but there are still Uni's in the world that use Windows 3.11 because they run apps that operate extremely expensive machinery. I've been told of equipment worth $150,000 and still using Windows 3.11, upgrading would mean buying new equipment. If it ain't broke..

As much as I enjoy Vista and Windows 7, it's hard to deny that XP is still a great OS and will probably be used for at least another decade. The fact is XP still cuts it for a lot of companies out there, and until we start seeing a serious amount of applications not supporting it, then it will still be used. Since XP is full a 32-bit platform (unlike 95/98/ME), I can't see it happening any time soon.

[Phil @ May 29th 2009 12:18PM]

XP and Vista both had a downgrade option that was available to any FULL retail copy or site licensed SKU. If you bought yours OEM, well then too bad you didn't get that benefit.

Incidentally, the full retail versions also never had the same transfer restrictions between new PCs, upgrades and owners either. You pay for the OS three times upfront and you loose alot of the restrictions folks.

[Michael Scrip @ May 29th 2009 2:45PM]

>> "I've been told of equipment worth $150,000 and still using Windows 3.11, upgrading would mean buying new equipment. If it ain't broke..."

I think that's a little short sighted on behalf of the developers.

"Thanks for buying our hardware and software! The only catch is that you'll have to use Windows 3.11 for the rest of your life because we will never update our software to run on new versions of Windows. We know there will be newer versions of Windows, maybe in only a few years... but we're done developing. Thank you for your purchase."

>> "In my office, we still use WinXP and are keeping Internet Explorer 6. New version of IE can't run our Intranet WebApps for internal use."

I'm not a developer... but didn't the people who wrote your WebApps ever think there would be life after IE6? I know it takes time and money to rewrite software.... but someone wrote it in the first place.

[Gi @ May 29th 2009 10:51AM]

sooo.....you guys got a 'peak' at the new zune?

[insky @ May 29th 2009 11:07AM]

I think all of us got "peaks" at the new Zune.
It's pretty schmexy.

[TREX6662k5 @ May 29th 2009 11:13AM]

I agree, I was able to pitch a tent for 4 people.

[ZenStyleJunglist @ May 29th 2009 10:52AM]

Wow, just wow....

[Mark Anderson @ May 29th 2009 11:02AM]

Every Windows OS I can recall has downgrade rights to previous versions, not just the version before.

Poor research by the author FTW!

[chris @ May 29th 2009 11:09AM]

Windows 7 is still slower than XP. I loaded 7 Ultimate on my Atom 330 TV box and
media center works but is very bogged down. The same system with MCE 2005
has no problems at all. And yes I used the same drivers for both.

Other than that I really like 7.

[tom @ May 29th 2009 11:27AM]

It is an Atom CPU (What do you expect?). Captain Obvious!

[Byrdman @ May 29th 2009 11:52AM]

Media center in Vista/7 blows away media center in XP. Give up XP already, its time to move on.

[chris @ May 29th 2009 12:04PM]

Yes, I agree 7 Media Center is great. Only problem is it runs like crap on my Atom TV PC.
So since I don't want a big noisy computer sitting behind my TV and heating everything up
I'll keep MCE 2005 for now. I use this PC as my DVR, Guide and for watching live TV.

[Garst @ May 30th 2009 5:29AM]

That's probably your problem. You're using XP drivers when you should be using the Vista drivers. If your HW doesn't have Vista drivers, then most of the blame is on your HW maker, but would still be a big problem with the overhauled Vista/7 environment. XP drivers just don't work well in Vista or 7.

[Tarnation @ May 29th 2009 11:11AM]

I still don't get all this negative hype towards Vista I have used it ever since it came out and I just don't have the problems most people claim. Other than some really old 16bit games not working on Vista 64 everything worked. I even had Vista Home Premium running on an old P4 with 2GBs of RAM up until a couple of months ago and it never had a problem.

[Jeff @ May 29th 2009 11:32AM]

I agree, Vista has been great on both out laptops. One upgraded from XP and one came with Vista. I would NEVER go back to XP.

[nolos @ May 29th 2009 11:36AM]

Get out

[Byrdman @ May 29th 2009 11:53AM]

no you get out.

[Michael @ May 29th 2009 1:22PM]

I'm so glad someone made this comment. I too have never had an issue with Vista. I don't do any gaming, I really just use it for writing papers, creating spreadsheets, hours and hours of internet surfing (usually on Engadget), and the occasional movie watching (only on planes), and I have never once had a problem. I'm I just a rare instance? Or is there something I'm missing about what makes an OS work well? As long as it works well, doesn't crash, (and looks loads better than XP), what's the matter?

[GingerFox @ May 29th 2009 2:58PM]

Nope as i have often commented Vista (Ultimate) works fine for me, the only time i have had problems is with some dodgey ATI drivers