NVIDIA says Windows CE is better for smartbooks than Android
By Donald Melanson 
posted Jun 18th 2009 4:41PM
posted Jun 18th 2009 4:41PM
There may be some folks out there talking up Android as the OS of choice of smartbooks, but it looks like you can't count NVIDIA among them. Speaking with ComputerWorld, NVIDIA's Mike Rayfield (general manager of the company's mobile business unit) says that NVIDIA actually prefers Windows CE over Android for ARM-based smartbooks due to its maturity and lack of a "rough user interface." To that end, Rayfield also confirmed that NVIDIA is working with Microsoft to optimize Windows CE for Tegra-based systems although, as we've seen, that hasn't stopped some folks from pairing Android with Tegra whether NVIDIA likes it or not. Incidentally, Rayfield was also asked about those rumors about Tegra powering the Zune HD, and he didn't exactly issue a flat out denial, saying simply that, "Microsoft hasn't confirmed that ... so until they comment, I can't."
I might actually agree with that
In other news, butterscotch tastes better on ice cream than ketchup.
Android wasn't meant for netbooks, a netbook-oriented operating system is.
The post was about Smart Books though. We've talking the "HOT NEW TREND" (so they tell us) BETWEEN Net Books and High-End Cell Phones.
;-)
To me the key part of that article was this:
Also, all video and graphics rendering in Android is done today by the operating system's Java code, a technique he says is too slow for HD video.
"There's no hardware acceleration. It's all software," Rayfield said. "Everyone's talking about Android for cell phones, but the reality doesn't exist for the larger displays [of a smartbook.]"
This suggests that it is code limitation, not just UI, which makes Android unsuitable for smartbooks.
this was quite obviously, even on WinMo, 3D graphics are completely possible, its just that Microsoft doesn't make it a standard and most manufacturers don't bother to use a GPU, with Android however, 3D acceleration for graphics is just not there even though the primary device, the G1, actually does have a GPU
English, quite obviously, commas and run-on sentences
Windows CE might look more polished.
Android might be more stable.
Windows CE might have more applications out right now.
Android should be less expensive and keep the hardware sales price lower.
What to do.
Windows CE licenses only run around $10 per device. The only major expense when developing with Windows CE is the cost of the Platform Builder which ranges around $1000 last time I checked, but that's only needed to compile custom builds of Windows CE.
Then whats your point?
Linux....? Runs on Smartphones, netbooks and desktops.. why not smartbooks.. or netphones, or deskbooks, or smartdeskbooknetphones... (I could do this all day...) or whatever the industry slaps together and calls it :)
On that bombshell, given android's open source, doesn't that mean the rough (I agree.. currently, android looks like crap, letalone on a big screen) user interface could in time (given HTC are whores for making crap looking mobile OS'es look good - here's lookin at you WiMo) become something actually quite usable?
Its not like the windows CE interface would be that hard to emulate.. or improve on....
The interesting thing is that Win CE 7 (and possibly 6.5) will come with Silverlight built in for graphically rich UIs. So manufacurers don;t have to end up with a default UI which doesn't look like Windows XP. On the other hand, with these devices I think people expect the notebook paradigm, so CE's default look may not be that bad.
Windows CE's kernel is open source, do your homework.
They are both terrible.
Anything from Microsoft, Google, or any other large corporation is bad for everyone but them
Even then no netbook has ever touched Apple's Macbook air.
NO
Just report him, don't comment.
Yeah, you can't really compare the Air with anything better than a netbook.
Nothing to do with summer.
I think everyone just hates dumbasses.
Are apple paying you guys?
They shouldn't cuz you make Apple and all the other ppl who like Apple look bad.
Wait, so when did Apple not become a massively huge corporation with teams of lawyers the others you mentioned?
They are all big corporations!
@ Templarian
Just because the comment is annoying or obnoxious, doesn't mean it warrants reporting. If you don't think there's any chance of the comment being removed, you probably shouldn't report it, because it's just one more comment for Engadget to have to look at. Better to report spam or genuinely offensive comments, since doing so actually accomplishes something and doesn't just waste people's time. After all, why do you think there's a minus button?
LOL @ all the hate comment, considering all the hate you piled on both MS and Google.
Hypocrite. (o_O)
@Gad Get, usually I would agree, but Miles comments like this on every post no matter the subject. It's probably just paul under an alias.
@Miles
It's loser. Look in the dictionary then look in the mirror.
See?
The hate's from a combination of things. Your comments border on trolling and your avatar is obnoxious. Combined, you've become one of the most hated posters on Engadget. Congratulations.
Do you use Gmail? How about Google.com?
What the hell is a smartbook? Computer manufacturers need to stop cooking up new redundant devices with confusing names. This is dot com all over again.
"smartbook" is a dumb device really. its a netbook (or notebook) with smartphone grade components / OSes in it.
ex: tegra contains an arm processor and was meant for portable media players / phones. A smartbook with this type of SOC would run WinCE or Android, not XP / full linux distro because of the non x86 nature.
i'm going to assume a smartbook is a smartphone meshed with a netbook. if a netbook is a laptop simplified down to where it can only really be used to webbrowsing and sending emails. and a smartphone is a phone that allows basic web browsing and mobile applications.
then a smartBOOK would be a highly portable (maybe 8 inch screen) laptop with internet via mobile carrier that can do browsing and email and maybe download and specialized apps from an app store or whatever.
like a mini laptop with a sim card
I dont want ARM smartbook, not even with ARM Linux... I want ultra low power x86 smartbook with xp...
What's CE supposed to be run on?
"Smartbooks"
Dreamcasts
super unleaded
Actually the real answer is.. everything!
well a lot of custom devices.... even WinMo is based on Win CE
WinCE is not OS you just use, it is set of libraries developers can use and compile for quite a lot of devices ....
Forget smartbooks, give me an HP DV2 and Win7. I mean if you want a smartbook, just get a used att tilt or something. It'll end up doing the same thing.
Just realized that the Android looks alot like Ike from South Park.
Yes, now I'll never unsee that.
I'm NEVER going to look at the android logo the same again..
Not at least without thinking of "Kick the baby..."
Awesome.
LOL -Darn Canadians (j/k)
"Microsoft hasn't confirmed that ... so until they comment, I can't."
Sounds like he's not allowed to spoil Ballmer's party. He's waiting for Microsoft to spill the beans about the Zune HD.
"Microsoft hasn't confirmed that"
Not to you
Let's not forget .Net applications can be easily ported over to Win CE as well, so there really isn't any lack of applications. The problem I see is that right now Android is pretty fresh in peoples minds. If you tell the average nerd they're going to be getting Win CE their first reaction would be that it's a lousy PDA from the 90's. I think if Microsoft really wanted the smartbook market they would have to change the name. Win CE 7 is looking like it's going to be pretty good and a serious contender for the smartbook market, the only problem is the name.
.net applications aren't easily ported to anything... not even a different .net version on the same platform :(
This is true for any programming language if you use libraries or assemblies not available in an older version.
They speak the truth.
I suppose the idea that MS more than likely assigned a team of drones to help integrate Tegra support into winCE for free wouldn't tilt the scales against Android?
Yeah, that's it exactly... drones (o_O)
Considering that you can get CLOSER to a desktop/laptop feel with WinCE (at this point in time), it's not surprising to hear Nvidia say this.
Android might work on a smartbook in future when reskinned, but it's current phone interface is pretty asstacular and underwhelming.
Personally I don't see the value of smartbooks when netbook prices are so low, and run full operating systems. Once the battery nut is cracked, WinCE vs. Android becomes academic.
Why smartbook over netbook?
Size.
One fits in your pocket, the other doesn't. Personally, I'm a bit on the extremes with this. If I can't fit it in my pocket, it might as well be a 5 lb+, 17"+ widescreen monster because I'll be toting it in a backpack or briefcase anyway.
Personally, I don't see the point in carrying around something larger than a smartphone if it's still going to be a mobile OS. If the main reason you want a smartbook is for the keyboard, you'd be better off spending the $120 or so on a Stowaway bluetooth keyboard.
Are you going to use that same picture for every android story? -_-
CE is whats under the hood of Microsoft's non-x86/x64 products, usually embedded. This covers the current Windows Mobile, Windows Automotive (for car navigation systems etc), and the old names that they used to use: Smartphone, PocketPC.
They are run on devices with very small amounts of storage / memory and in need for low latency response since the entire kernel runs under 1MB, and the OS responds deterministically in realtime.
PS: It was the OS running the Dreamcast underneath.
Touchscreen cash registers, like at dunkin donuts run on CE.
My Safeway (food store), uses a full XP version on their touch screens.
I think it was a couple of weeks ago that I saw an OS/2 cash register running some custom inventory software. I forgot where.
OS/2 GUI still looks decent. poor thing never really had a chance.
Are you sure that wasn't Windows 3.1? I've never seen an OS/2 cash register, but have seen plenty of Windows 3.1 cash registers.
Pretty sure that was OS/2. Cream color GUI, tabs everywhere, and that font (Lucida?).
Sorry, I used the term "cash register" incorrectly. It had a cash draw, but it looked like an inventory management system.
Red box rental machines?
Could it be better for smartbooks ONLY because Windows CE is proprietary, and they can weasel out of having to produce Linux drivers?
I consider myself an uber gadget nerd, but can somebody tell me WTF a smartbook is?
Smartbooks = netbooks - x86 + ARM
It's a foregone conclusion that Android will eventually make it to...not netbooks, but net tablets.
Next year, after Apple has come out with their own tablet to blow away the minds of manufacturers worldwide, companies like Asus, Dell and Acer will be scrambling to produce their own competing net tablets. At that point - and if Android 2.0 is ready - these companies will be flocking to Android as an OS for the touch-screen capabilities and the easy interface.
Will Windows play a part? Yes, but not nearly as much as they were on netbooks. These devices will be ultra slim and work on super-low voltage CPUs with low capabilities. No one wants to spend that extra money for Windows, and all the bloat involved, only to crush the CPU.
My prediction for 2010.
I'm guessing you have absolutely no idea what Win CE is.
@insky
Sure. Window light for small devices. I believe they call it, Windows C(rap) E(dition).
I'm guessing you have absolutely no idea what Tegra is?
@gerrrg
You really are showing that you are uninformed.
Apple has missed that boat and to claim that everyone will be scrambling to produce one is just Apple fanboyism. There are netbooks coming out that will have tablet functionality with windows 7 and tablets have been around for a while if not that portable.
Please do some research outside of of the Apple ecosystem. Some topics to focus on:
1) ARM vs x86_64
2) Windows vs Windows CE
Also get a new crystal ball think the one you have now is broken.
who cares? nvidia dosnt make smartbooks, netbooks or OS's. Fuggem.
I agree with this statement. Android just blows on netbooks.
Lol...
1) rumours that the ZuneHD will use a Nvidia processor.
2) Nvidia makes positive remarks about Windows.
Draw your own conclusions.
My conclusion:
ZuneHD is going to crash twice per hour of use.
"My conclusion:
ZuneHD is going to crash twice per hour of use."
Never used a Zune before, eh?
I have use a Zune. But if the ZuneHD is running anything close to the WinCE on mobile phones, then I do expect it to crash.
@BLToday
The Zune already runs on top of WinCE you idiot!
@ Ike Turner
Since you're the WinCE guru, I assume you know that there are three different versions (at least use to be): WinCE Core, WinMo, and WinMo Smartphone. WinMo/Smartphone has one major difference from Core; multitasking. WinCE Core (at least with devices I've dealt with) will only load single application at a time. WinCE Core is use in PMP, GPS devices (think Magellan GPS units), etc. Whereas WinMo Smartphone will let multiple applications be loaded into memory. Simply put, WinMo Smartphone sucks at running multiple applications, the OS is just can't handle it. Maybe WinMo 7 will change that.
Anyway, back to Tegra and ZuneHD, it doesn't make business sense to be using Tegra on a simple PMP. Tegra is overkill. Just too costly in term of $ and power consumption. You could justify the use of Tegra on the ZuneHD if you're using it for outputting HD to TV. But that's going to a small percentage of the actual user. What would Tegra is great for is gaming. Think Xbox Handheld.
The problem I have is that some executive at Microsoft might get the urge to force WinMo Smartphone-like multitasking onto the ZuneHD team because of all the available power from Tegra.
WinMo multitasks just fine - where is your evidence that it doesn't?
The fact of the matter is that there are quite a few apps out there that cause memory leaks - not much can be done there just dont blame the OS.
I guess this maybe one of the primary reasons why iPhone doesn't implement it other than Apple created apps. They can ensure no memory leaks.
There will b5 15 fixes for this in the Android world before the Microsoft boys can draw up a memo to have a meeting to make an action plan.
Maybe true, but Linux (FULL Linux, like Ubuntu) is still the best.
CE sucks. No software, no functionality, just crap.
Android? Does it even has a Terminal? Does it run X windows based apps? I don't think so. I'll go for Linux/X11.
I agree. Ubuntu MID is the way to go, not a limited java-based environment running atop Linux like Android.
I don't necessarily disagree with the point that you're making, but I find it pretty silly that you're suggesting a command line terminal is somehow integral to making a good smartbook.
Ubuntu MID? Are you kidding me?
Android is Java-oriented, closer to the MID/SE spec than the stupid J2ME spec.
It's all about the VM. They can easily open up or develop new services to access hardware. OR you can do it yourself.
And I'll choose Android over any Linux (Ubuntu/Moblin/SuseLite) and WinCE and iPhone OS device anyday. Why? Cause it doesn't CRASH. Sure apps may crash, but the device/OS doesn't. The iPhone OS has crashed on me plenty of times in a year, PalmOS weekly, WinCE daily.
Android: 6 months and no OS crash yet, even with crappy apps from the appstore that fault a lot.
I call BS on this from NVIDIA; the reason NVIDIA is pushing for WinCE is that they have failed utterly over the last 5 years to deliver ANY mobile/handset drivers for ANYTHING OTHER than Windows based OS's. They failed on Symbian when it was in vogue, and now they fail on Android.
NVIDIA Tegra is purely a Windows based platform; hence why they want other WinCE devices since the ZuneHD win... There is NO dev efforts at NVIDIA for anything other than Windows based mobile OS's (on Tegra) - so of course they will push for WinCE and not Android.
I wouldn't trust NVIDIA in the mobile space; 4 years of BS, failing and non-delivery; name ONE handset that has shipped with NV GPU features in any volume. They can't deliver a baseband and hence they are stuck as a Tier2 player.
Good luck to them
(From an ex-NV customer who evaluate NVIDIA's mobile offerings for a handset mfr.)
And their Linux drivers have gone from excellent to suck.
AMD/ATI has picked up their game a lot in the Linux space.
This is because like most (not all) of their products, and unlike Apple, Google do not have a creative visionary who 'gets it' at the helm of SOME of their key divisions (Docs, Android etc) and drives and monitors every aspect of the project until it's perfect, robust and has an viable appealing value proposition to all sectors of the market. On the other hand, Microsoft, while boring and not really that innovative (except for Surface and Natal), do understand that end users are after solutions, support and most importantly - everything has to gel.
The second Android gets a visionary who gets it behind it, the situation will change and the paradigm will finally shift - again.
I rest my case M'Lud
Android + Snapdragon will kick Nvidia (Teg) + WinCE hands down. It's all about the battery life. Oh, AND 3G/LTE.
Actually, Snapdragon is gonna be first seen in WinMo devices. Rumour has it that Nokia is working on Tegra based Symbian phones too.
ok...so whats news in that?
should the title be, NVIDIA says, Windows CE is better "than Android", for smartbooks ..
well go ahead and rank me low ...;)
Seems microsoft paying nVidia enough to say such things, I used winMo pdas for 3 years now and about week ago bought android pda ... its completly best over winMo, faster, comfortable, free to change anything, much more stable.
And video/audio decoding is done by C++ code in android ... everything that needs good perfomance is writen on C, java is only for business logic.
So, exactly what is this Android PDA you're talking of?
Nvidia is kicking itself a bit using Windows CE in their Tegra smartbooks. Qualcomm and Freescale chipped smartbooks will be coming out with Linux ported for ARM, which will offer users a far greater amount of usage and amount of applications to use. Which is a pity, as Tegra seems like the better processor out of the three and should offer even better battery life.
Nvidia says their devices will be for internet, movies and music basically and if you want more then get a netbook with their Ion chipset.
I agree that Android is not suited to smartbooks or netbooks, but Linux is. To hell with Microsoft, they stated that they would not make Windows 7 run on ARM, so what is stopping Nvidia from using Linux?
Windows CE and Android should stick to smartphones and other small devices like SatNav.