http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 7:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
If you are too dumb to know how to install firefox then you should buy an Apple computer.

On the OS specifications it should include "-User is not a retard" otherwise go buy a MAC and return this unopened package for a refund.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 9:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
:P]]>Aug 3rd 2009 8:25AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Paint and Photoshop are in now way at all comparable products. I won't bother to explain why, do some reading.

Am I the only one here that remembers how MS used bundling IE with windows to massively increase their market share over Netscape ?
Do you know how many years it took MS to move from crap IE6 to IE7 ? In the end only Firefox gave then a nudge to release IE7.
They has such a hold on the market that there was no need for a good few years to bother releasing a new version.
This hold on the market largely came from IE + Windows. Remember the windows 98 interface ?

Choice is good, now that MS knows users won't automatically go for IE it might keep them on their toes adding new features, fixing bugs and not waiting for vulnerabilities to be pointed out before they are addressed.
This is a good thing for the consumer.

I'm afraid I have to go against popular engadge opinion and side with the EU on this one.
(Those the Browser select ballot is the sweet stop between only IE and no browser at all)


]]>Aug 3rd 2009 8:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 8:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
Wait a minute. I am not a tech and always use IE because it work for what i wanted to do when a friend told me about other browsers. Went and check em out and stuck with Firefox, what is stopping Europeans from doing the same? Already, like someone mention they got a full IE 7 for the price of an upgrade we get here because of...(read kadajawi's post)]]>Aug 3rd 2009 9:14AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
Boy o Boy... this will make so many customers angry... I was a former technical support phone technician in the second largest computer company (you guess it) and I can tell people don't like to make this type of choices at all, because they don't even understand what an internet browser is. I remember people who have indeed tried Firefox, but they go back to IE just because they are used to it, just like the windows vs Linux thing, so, after this people have installed other browser than internet explorer, most will be totally confused and I can see floods of people calling tech support because there is no blue "E" on their desktops.

Trust me, I tried to convince people of using Firefox, hundreds of times, but somehow people keeps going back to IE, I can't explain, it is just that they are used to it, with it's flaws and everything. Now, must of this people have never tried to install IE before, having to do so will be cumbersome. Some may actually think the new browser is actually one new windows 7 feature.

My belief is that who ever had an issue with IE already tried something else. And sure, this will negatively hit IE market share but is that what the EU wants?

BTW, I don't see that happening with OSX or any Linux distro, is this fair?]]>Aug 3rd 2009 9:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
I guess it would be really easy to install any browser without an actual web browser to do the download, heh? If you don't like IE, there are many other options. I'm using chrome at this moment but appreciate the fact that I had IE available to download chrome. I guess the Europeans didn't figure that one out and are forcing everybody to buy some sort non-browser computer (therefore unusable for internet surfing), making people going to buy one of those gift CDs included in IT magazines so they can get some sort of browser working.
]]>Aug 3rd 2009 9:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/everyone on either side should be satisfied.
plus, having choices is always a good thing.

so there's no more valid point to keep on arguing, no matter on which side u r with.
at least over this browser choice situation.
and everyone on Engadget will once again live happily ever after.










.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 9:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 9:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 10:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
Yes it would. There is no need for a browser to be able to download a programme and install it. A simple XML file on some server with the list of browsers would be enough, along with a simple application (*extremely simple*: I could write it in ten minutes) that downloads it and displays the available choices in a window. To think that "the Europeans didn't figure that one out" is even dumber than you consider Europeans to be: it's clear that Microsoft doesn't want to do that and prefers to install its browser, as it has always done. ]]>Aug 3rd 2009 10:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 3:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/MS seemed to please EU and their stupid requests. They handled this very well. I don't know if I could have taken them seriously.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 12:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/If your parents cant remember to click the red fox instead of the blue E, it's time to take away the keys, seriously.

Also Chrome and FF have extremely stream lined interfaces. You know what is much more confusing? Going from IE6 to 7 or 8. Talk about a headache. If they can deal with MS's horrible updates, they can deal with anything.

You guys act like pointing FF to someone is comparable to Lynx or something..

I hope to God IE's market share shrinks fast so they can get get up to date and competitive. Theres still a lot of stuff that doesnt work in IE8 but does in FF, Chrome, Safari, Konqueor, and all the Mozilla based browsers like Epiphany and Flock. The sooner IE quits dragging on the Internet's feet, the better.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 1:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 2:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
MS doesnt really to my knowledge, but they have been integrating Live Search, now Bing, more lately, and anyone now using Yahoo search will soon be using Bing. So MS more tries to push their search where they get the ad revenue. I dont know if MS gets a cut like Mozilla from integrated search or not.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 3:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 9:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/I hope it uninstalls itself.
Otherwise Fail.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 7:17AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 9:15AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
IE is at windows core since windows 95. That's why you can access internet even from the file explorer or the Run box. It should not be meant to be uninstalled and even if it is uninstalled, the only thing you will not see are some IE specific files and icons but the rest will remain in windows. Just imagine if someone deletes IE without knowing what it is..., will lose all internet access and won't even be able to install any other browser. Microsoft has some very good integration with the browser and it should remain like that.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 9:43AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 10:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
"IE is at windows core since windows 95. "

False and false. That's what Microsoft wants you to believe and you sheepishly do. They could remove the browser if only they wished to, and there is no need at all for a browser to download another.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 10:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 11:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
I wonder if MS would ship Windows 7 with that page cached so it loads almost instantaneously. And leave IE8 the first option, with the hyperlink already visited so it's a different color, as depicted in the pic.

Gotta be come perks to having your own OS to promote with, right?]]>Aug 3rd 2009 12:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 7:19AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 7:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 7:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
Frankly, the US Department of Justice should have done this back when they investigated the situation but then chickened out.

I'm not expecting much love for this story or my comments since this will be seen as being anti-US and anti-Microsoft and that's never popular on this site. Thankfully, opinion here means nothing and in the real world this situation has been addressed in a sensible manner.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 7:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
If that's not typical, how do you explain them suing MS for having windows media player installed?

This is typical of the EU, and I hope MS tells them to shove it and pulls out of the EU for a period of time, see how the EU's citizens will react when they can not buy windows OS.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 7:35AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
If people were concerned about this then they would have chosen other browsers. The fact that they don't means they don't care which undermines the idea of the EU acting the interests of the people. The only issue I sympathise with is the inability to uninstall IE.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 7:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
The pirate bay presumably.

I know that this has happened before but I don't think it's "typical" and that the type of people who usually comment on these stories can suggest that the EU is communist etc.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 7:38AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
Microsoft can´t afford to put out of EU for any length of time as it´s a bigger market that it´s home market (US) and once people switched (because they could not buy MS OS´s) it will be very hard to get them back.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 7:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
Oddly, that won't happen because if Linux is effectively "forced" onto a region then it will be adopted very fast and then you find me a reason why we would migrate back to Windows. Sure, the EU is giving Microsoft problems but I suspect that the fines are small in comparison to the revenue generated by the region, particularly over time. This is similar to Microsoft's desperate desire to get Windows embedded into developing economies rather than Linux.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 7:43AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
Do you really believe that users even KNOW there is a choice? I'm sorry but this is something that has to be done for the good of users and the Internet whether they appreciate it or not. Once IE is standards compliant and all web sites/applications work properly in any standards compliant browser then I will have absolutely no issue with Microsoft bundling IE with Windows and removal of the ballot page. My only position on this issue is to see the "untethering" of parts of the World Wide Web to Microsoft Windows.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 8:24AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
Well as an EU citizen, the only thing that appears ridiculous from my own standpoint is that MS reacted to the EC ruling by stating that they'd remove IE. They were never asked to remove it, so it seems like they've been rather cunning in PR terms by making the EC look like mean spirited bastards.

Statement from the EC re: end users needing to be offered a choice of, not a lack of a browser:

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/09/272&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en]]>Aug 3rd 2009 9:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Not to mention IE sets Bing as the default search engine, which is also a MS tool. And, let's not forget that it's shown some obvious bias since it's debut. ]]>Aug 3rd 2009 12:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
Bing is only the default if the user doesn't select another search engine, which IE directly presents to you, the first time you use it or install it. ]]>Aug 3rd 2009 2:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
Let's not mince words here - IE is rubbish and no one would use it if they a) didn't have to, and b) knew that there were alternatives. Yes, it does the job but then so do a lot of things that we all accept are poor products. IE is by far and away the worst major browser and the only reason it is #1 is because it comes pre-installed on the world's most popular OS.]]>Aug 4th 2009 2:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 9:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 7:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 10:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
So Firefox is "an integral part of the operating system", right?]]>Aug 3rd 2009 10:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 11:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
There's so many problems with this situation, the biggest being the EU's socialist manipulations of private industry. It's their hodge-podge collection of countries, so they can do whatever they want, but it's very disturbing.

Second, Firefox. Look how successful it has been, chewing away at Internet Explorer's market share more and more every year. All while IE has been bundled with Windows. Is Firefox just so amazing that it is overcoming this "monopoly"? Nope. The dirty little secret of using the Netscape vs. Internet Explorer argument is that Netscape sucked ass. It was becoming a bloated mess, and while Microsoft bundling IE with Windows helped expediate the process, it would have occurred naturally anyway. Just like how Internet Explorer 6 sat and sat while malware was taking over, and eventually Mozilla was able to use Microsoft's lethargy to push Firefox.

Third, not final, but all I care to dive into, what about Apple? And Ubuntu? And Chrome OS? Are Safari, Firefox, and Chrome respectively all going to have to implement the same solution as Microsoft? What about Opera, they don't even have an OS to use to leverage their browser, how is this fair to them?! This is the problem that arises when political bodies begin interfering with the private market. There is no perfect solution (other than to let the market decide what wins), so any solution they implement is inherently going to be flawed from the beginning.

God I hate socialism.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 11:13AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
I am not 100% sure but I think that SharePoint support for other browsers is coming. Certainly Microsoft has been talking about support for the likes of Firefox and Safari in Office 2010 for the web versions of the applications. Microsoft has also published tools to enable Mac users to collaborate much more easily with SharePoint with Office:mac 2008 Service Pack 2 that was released recently. Microsoft finally seems to have woken up to interoperability and that's a nice thought.

@hexydes

There is no problem with this situation - it's job done and everyone will benefit. Just sit back and relax.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 1:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/I read somewhere that the whole internal API that IE used is supposed to be published for other browsers to take over things like rendering help files. So no reason to suppose Sharepoint will be left out of this. . Along with a whole bunch of other interoperability stuff, and the attendant patents declared and maintained. So no giving all the information out and changing it the following week. Can't remember exactly what off hand, but it is a lot more important stuff than a browser polling screen.

But this is still just a Microsoft proposal. The "Windows7 with no browser" offer was never asked for nor expected to be taken seriously by anyone but the more gullible members of the computing press. And when the EU commission pretty much snorted cappuccino through their noses and got a fit of giggles, it was withdrawn pretty fast. So it still has to be presented and approved by the commission. Microsoft may yet be told to go away and do it properly... again. ]]>Aug 3rd 2009 11:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
Yes, it is possible that the EU might turn down this proposal but I honestly don't see it happening (can we think of a better solution to the issue?) and I would not support further action. For me, the Browser Ballot ticks the right boxes such that I think it is the best solution we are going to get and I see no reason to continue wasting people's time just for the sake of doing so.]]>Aug 4th 2009 2:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/
(1) It would have highlighted how ridiculous the issue is. Why the hell would Microsoft, a software company, supply other companies' software when it has its own solution?

(2) It would've been a hell of a lot more interesting. Though I guess this solution is mature and stuff.]]>Aug 3rd 2009 7:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/microsofts-browserless-windows-7-e-get-euthanized/Aug 3rd 2009 7:27AM