http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:19AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
For the Dell Mini that should read "Buy cheap linux netbook, install OSX." I would be willing to wager that Dell's not seeing a higher rate of return on Ubuntu netbooks primarily because people are buying the low end model (with Ubuntu) and hackintoshing it. When Dell ran those $199 for a day Mini 9 promos they all came with Ubuntu preinstalled. This is by no means a shot against Ubuntu or Windows - it's simply the reality of the Ubuntu Mini 9 being the best (and cheapest) hackintosh netbook on the market.]]>Aug 13th 2009 12:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 2:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/ Buy cheap linux netbook, install windows 7.

That only makes sense if you are pirating Windows.

Admittedly, this is a time honored tradition.]]>Aug 13th 2009 2:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 9:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:13AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
Slackware is where its at.]]>Aug 13th 2009 12:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Ahahahahahaha. Oh the irony.

But seriously, if I had a netbook, I think the first thing I'd do is dump some Ubuntu MID on it. And yes, I realize how dangerous it is putting the words "dump" and "Ubuntu" in the same sentence.]]>Aug 13th 2009 12:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 3:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Well, my knowledge of fruit on laptops is limited but I hope you didn't put Linux and OSX (which is based on unix) in the same basket.]]>Aug 13th 2009 3:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 6:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
@cloud858rk

HAHAHA thanks for that, i think that's the hardest i've laughed all day. god, i'm such a dork.]]>Aug 13th 2009 10:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:24AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Your comment = uninformed

RTFA .... "We are not seeing any technical reasons for why they are returning Linux machines so...we don't see a significant difference between the return rate for Windows versus the rate for Linux. We've been quite pleased with the stability and technical soundness of the Linux machines."

your right they cant give it away .........
they are selling it to businesses that want to reduce their software cost

http://www.newsobserver.com/business/nc/story/1582512.html

"Software company Red Hat continued its recession-defying performance by posting an 11 percent increase in quarterly revenue"

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/25/redhat_fq12010_numbers/]]>Aug 13th 2009 11:57AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 12:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/windows was built by geeks for office employees.
Macintosh OS was built by geeks for regular people.
Apple OSX was built by geeks for pompous bastards that don't know a thing about computers so they buy the computers based on looks because they are so original.]]>Aug 13th 2009 12:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 12:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
"Your comment = uninformed"

How "informed" do you have to be to say that if something FREE - that is, COMPLETELY FREE - competes against similar products in the $200 range (OSX, Windows) and is getting the shit kicked out of it, that it sucks? Not very, I think.]]>Aug 13th 2009 12:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://xkcd.com/619/

Linux is great if you have the time to read all the support docs, the hairline to survive all the yanking you'll do from missing drivers, the patience to install some 10 distros and see which has the least compromises, the cajones to survive a chat session with linux nerds in an IRC room, and a net connection to download a torrent for Windows. ]]>Aug 13th 2009 12:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/First off, most customers don't generally have an option to get the same computer for $X with Linux or $X+200 with Windows. Large companies, like Dell, etc, are usually subsidized quite a bit to offer Windows (especially the latest version) for a comparable price. The same Dell Inspiron 1520 will only see a 40 or 50 dollar price difference at most between the Linux and Windows model. And because the vast majority of the public has grown up with and gotten used to Windows, they see the value in paying $50 more for an operating system that they are already familiar with. It has very little to do with Windows being better than Linux (in this case Ubuntu) or vice versa. Customers buy what they're used to because they don't want to learn something new.

The other thing I should point out is that the majority of large computer retailers (ignoring Apple for the time being) sell Windows-only machines, with possibly a set few machines running Ubuntu. If the users hardware configuration choices don't match the one or two linux options, they will go with the hardware configuration they want on a windows machine. The problem again isn't that Windows is better than Linux, it's that the vast majority of options available are for Windows, the vast majority of the public has used windows before, and the vast majority of Operating system marketing is Windows + Apple. The average computer user has probably never heard of Ubuntu / Fedora / Gentoo / Moblin / openSUSE / Mandriva / etc / etc because they don't have the money to spend on marketing.

But as someone who has used Windows, OS-X, and several flavors of Linux... I can tell you that the major Linux distros match up very well with the latest Windows + OS-X releases. I would much rather run Ubuntu / Fedora / openSUSE than any Windows (especially Vista).]]>Aug 13th 2009 1:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
cough*Broadcom wifi*cough]]>Aug 13th 2009 1:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
When consumer PCs DID come with Linux, in mass quantities no less (the GPC at Walmart), it is returned so often it is taken off the shelves.

And as for customers having no choice, how many computers do you think have OSX and Windows installed from copies bought off the shelf (OFF THE SHELF, where customers have a very obvious choice between free and $200) than have Linux installed for free? I'd say a huge, huge, huge number more.]]>Aug 13th 2009 2:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/... ? wtf are you talking about

@ GRAMMAR

For the Linux computers being returned "so often it is taken off the shelves", I'm not sure if this is true or not... but if so I would argue that it probably has more to do with customers not realizing what they're buying. The vast majority of computer users are mostly unaware that there are options besides Windows or Mac. If you were to tell my parents to go into a Wal Mart and buy a laptop and they saw one that was $299 (or whatever the price of that GPC was) and the next closest one (that happened to run windows) was $499 or $599... they would probably buy the $299 because it was cheaper. Then when they got home they would boot it and say "Hey, this isn't windows... what is this?" and instead of spending the time to learn it they'd just return it for another one.

As for copies being bought off the shelf and installed on systems, i would argue that the vast majority of these systems already had Windows on them and are being upgraded. Someone has XP and buys a copy of Vista as an upgrade for example. This is again most likely due to several factors. 1) The average person will go to a bigbox store to purchase their new operating system and in these stores, you really have only one choice: Windows 2) Most people don't realize there is an alternative to Windows, (not to mention a free alternative that you can download) and 3) When you have a computer already with Windows on it, you are more likely to buy your next computer with Windows on it.

The amount of "clean" systems (no operating system installed) probably make up a very small percentage of the installs of off-the-shelf purchases of operating systems. Also, because it is much rarer to find a "clean" system from a big box dealer, it's more likely that a "clean" systems is home-built... I would argue that the percentage of Linux installs on clean systems is significantly higher than store-bought because 1) It's free 2) If the user can build a computer, they are most likely a power-user who will appreciate the various Linux distros more and will be more aware of / turned off by the various problems with Windows... (i.e. viruses, boot times, inefficient memory usage, memory leaks, malware, etc etc etc)]]>Aug 13th 2009 3:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
Actually what likely happened was that they bought the computer and one of those games right down the isle and found out it wouldn't work.

That's not Linux's fault. It definitely has nothing to do with "sucking" at all.]]>Aug 13th 2009 4:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
There are more letters in your comment than there are Linux users in the world.]]>Aug 13th 2009 7:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
Trolling, trolling, trolling
Though the hands are swollen
Keep them comments trolling
Go hide!

Actually, Ubuntu alone had somewhere around 8 million users as of October 2008 according to Canonical: http://www.internetnews.com/software/article.php/3780651. Of course, reliable user base statistics is always hard to come by.

]]>Aug 14th 2009 7:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
Unless these Linux machines use KDE (so that they can BEGIN to make people think its windows), have Reps in store explaining to them how to use Linux, offer even more competitive pricing than they do now, AND convince people to use Open Office over MS Office (which is impossible btw), Linux will never replace windows as the OS of choice on netbooks

(and when I say "people" i mean the average joe schmoe walking into Best Buy, not the average Engadget poster, or average anyone who actually knows their way around linux.)]]>Aug 13th 2009 11:24AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:39AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
The reason Linux-at-retail is useless is because everybody knows someone who will help them "fix" their computer, and that person is useless on Linux, because they can't install the spyware du jour (which is the main part of "setting up" a new computer). Naturally, rather than accept they simply don't know how to admin on UNIX, they badmouth it as inferior, then "help" by installing Windows (frequently pirated) so they can turn it into the dung heap they're accustomed to. And the owner, considering this person a computer whiz, believes every word they say, and gives them free rein to trash their system. It's really quite sad.]]>Aug 13th 2009 11:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:57AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 12:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
First time computer buyers, which the bulk of computer sales were during the 95-XP era, went into a store like circuit city, best buy or sam's club (most walmart stores did not carry them at the time) and said "i need one of those computer things, the ones that go let you get mail and buy stuff through the computer" and some poorly trained, minimum wage so i don't really care, sales person pointed them to the nearest over priced system that was way more than they will ever need to do email, surf the web and print greeting cards with some crap-ware bundled program. Or worse yet they saw an add for Dell or Gateway advertising a "special buy" with a printer and speakers included, yay, and they called and ordered it without the person on the phone ever offering them any choice other than to throw in some extras they never needed in the first place.

From my experience the average user is not:

A gamer that needs monster video cards and a the latest cpu, their definition of gaming is going to MSN and playing casual games or using the Hoyle suite of games that came already installed with all the other crap-ware.

They are not business people that do work at home. MS works or possibly Office Standard is what ends up being used for any documents depending on what came already on the system and they never upgrade it to newer versions. The only software that they may buy and install on the computer is something like turbotax or a security suite from one of the bloatware companies because they found them in the center isle of walmart in a cardboard display.

They are not geeks or computer enthusiast. They are mothers and grandmothers, fathers and grandfathers, sisters and brothers, that have almost no computer experience but felt compelled to buy a computer because thought they had to or they would be left behind. They bank online, file for their government payments online, apply for jobs online, buy things cheap online, talk to family and friends online, see pictures of the grandchildren online. All because someone told them the needed to get online and they were missing something. Most of them don't even use computers at work, so they when the opened the box at home it was like looking at something totally new. Hell they started color coding everything because even with a poster size fold out instruction people couldn't plug in the keyboard.

They are not people that would be here reading this now, they are like your uncle Ed that calls you all the time to ask you if he did something wrong to the computer because it starting beeping at him when he set the newspaper down on the keyboard and could you come look at it. Or call to say they haven't been able to use their computer for three days because its asking them to do something and they don't know what to do. (click yes or no to install this update)

That is the average user from previous generations that have bought the bulk of computers in use today. Almost all of them could have used anything, Windows, Linux or OS X to do EVERYTHING that they need to do. But the truth of the matter is the majority didn't even know there was a choice to be made, they went to the store or called a mail order vendor and the guy there told them what they needed to buy.

People on these sites tend to think they are pretty normal computer user, when in fact they are anything but.

Just my two cents

]]>Aug 13th 2009 3:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 11:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 12:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
I've been hoping for a linux netbook that exceeds those specs (more RAM would be nice), but nothing so far.]]>Aug 13th 2009 11:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
MS kills innovation for their own sake.]]>Aug 13th 2009 11:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/
Hate on windows all you want.

Until someone releases a version of Linux that "just works", it's a non-starter.

I think the market for the last 10 years or so will back me up on that. ]]>Aug 13th 2009 12:17PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/dell-refutes-high-linux-netbook-return-rates-but-not-customer-i/Aug 13th 2009 12:32PM