http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
He's holding an iPhone.]]>Aug 17th 2009 3:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
Yeah, I'm a gay Apple user that drives a VW, want to fight about it?]]>Aug 17th 2009 4:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
Nah, gay people are OK. Sure, I honestly think they are kind of weird, but they don't hurt anyone or do anything bad, so they are cool.]]>Aug 17th 2009 8:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
MAKES ME PROUD TO OWN ONE.]]>Aug 17th 2009 8:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7832565.stm
]]>Aug 18th 2009 12:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
I'm pretty sure Rogers/Fido made a pile off the 3 year contract they had _me_ sign.]]>Aug 17th 2009 2:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 3:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
Rubbish report with far to many factors outside handset to make any kind of analysis.

The market in the nordic countries is fiercy and nowhere else is telephony as cheap, this market is the base of this report...

In sweden people are in this time switching to even cheaper telephony, something TeliaSonera does not provide.

Tech people need to remember just how small Apple is compared to Nokia when it comes to handsets.]]>Aug 17th 2009 4:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 4:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
Like thta's something new, especially with Apple. Don't believe me, just look at the BS they use in their ads. All all the fanbois got hooked.]]>Aug 17th 2009 11:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
Prediction: 65-80 comments for this article.]]>Aug 17th 2009 2:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 4:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 4:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
So in the long run they will eventually see a profit, just not initially.



]]>Aug 17th 2009 2:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
That said, carriers need to look out for their bottom line. Either increase the cost of phone (reduce the loss at the POS) or demand that Apple sell the device for less to the carrier. It does no good to blame Apple. The carriers make their own decisions. If the partnership with Apple is costing you money get out. This isn't complex. ]]>Aug 17th 2009 3:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/> "AT&T IS NOT making ANY money off the phone sales. They are losing money because of the subsidy they are required to offer."

AT&T is paying Apple $400 to subsidize the iPhone... but AT&T is *making* over $2,000 in contract fees over the 2 years.

I don't see how AT&T is losing money if the customers chooses an iPhone...]]>Aug 17th 2009 3:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 4:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/> "They still have to operate a network you know..."

Right. Which is why they charge you PER MONTH. The price of the hardware up front is nothing compared to the cost of service over the life of the contract.

How can any cell carrier give away FREE phones? Because they are getting thousands of dollars from you over 2 years. ]]>Aug 17th 2009 4:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
It seems silly to me that AT&T couldn't have figured this out sooner. The only thing that I can come up with is that AT&T was banking on more profit from each customer (possibly more minutes, more text messages, revenue sharing from app store, etc) that simply hasn't materialized yet. If that is the case, then they should adjust their assumptions and either charge the customer more or acquire the devices for less.]]>Aug 17th 2009 8:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 8:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/> "if this report is to be believed, the net PROFIT received from a typical iPhone contract does NOT cover the cost of the subsidy. Hence, every time a new customer signs up AT&T is losing money."

I just find that hard to believe. How much is the subsidy? Is AT&T paying Apple $2,000 for each iPhone?

A new customer walks into the AT&T Store to get an iPhone, and chooses a $90 a month plan. AT&T then sends Apple $400 for the phone, but the customer agrees to pay AT&T a grand total of $2,160 over the next 2 years. That still leaves $1,760 for AT&T.

How is AT&T losing money from that?

It would be the same for any phone. The customers buys the phone at the subsidized price... then the carrier sends money to the manufacturer. But, the customer spends thousands on service. That's how it's always been. If they haven't figured that out by now... then what the hell are they doing?

Look at normal cell phones. They are FREE. But the carrier still has to buy them from the manufacturer. So, the carrier is relying on the voice plan to make money. Yet, voice plans are tiny compared to smartphone data plans.

If anything... I'd imagine the carriers are losing more money on dumb phones with a $40 a month voice plan... versus a smart phone with a $100 a month voice+data plan.]]>Aug 17th 2009 11:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 18th 2009 1:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/> "Wow, Michael, you are dumb as a brick. i suppose on your imaginary world, companies have no overhead. I suppose AT&T uses magic pixie dust to transport data around it's magical network which uses no electricity and costs the company nothing. There aren't even any AT&T employees, it's all run on magic."

Look motherfucker (see I can name-call too)... I never suggested that iPhone users are getting something for nothing! AT&T makes money from the monthly fees. They provide a service. All I'm saying is that people are still PAYING the same monthly fees with an iPhone as any other smartphone on the AT&T network.

You never answered my question... how is AT&T losing money on the iPhone if it has one of the most expensive monthly plans? How much is the subsidy? If it's anything less than the $2,000 you pay over the 2 year contract... THEY MAKE MONEY.

The Blackberry Bold unsubsidized price is $550. You pay $300 for the phone. Which means AT&T pays RIM $250 for the phone.

The iPhone 3GS 16GB unsubsidized price is $600. You pay $200 for the phone. Which means AT&T pays Apple $400 for the phone.

That's higher than any other subsidy... BUT, YOU ARE STILL PAYING $2,000+ FOR THE IPHONE!!! That's $1,600 that AT&T gets to keep!

If anything... you can argue that the iPhone is a burden on the data network... and that's where AT&T is spending their money... trying to keep data flowing to the iPhone. The fact that iPhone owners use far more data than any other cell phone is one thing... but at the same time... iPhone owners PAY far more for the iPhone than other cell phone.

Last year, a person could have had a cheap flip-phone on AT&T, and paid the minimum $40 a month. This year they get an iPhone... and now they pay $100 a month. Even after AT&T gives Apple their money... AT&T still has 16 months to profit from each iPhone customer.

2 year contract with a flip-phone ------ $1000
2 year contract with the iPhone ------- $2400

However... if AT&T's margins are so razor thin that they actually don't make much money with ANY phone... then that's just poor business strategy. ]]>Aug 18th 2009 11:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/
Apart from if you are on O2 where there give you unlimited net + wifi for a year, even on PAYG.]]>Aug 17th 2009 2:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 8:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/research-finds-iphone-hurting-operators-boy-george-unavailable/Aug 17th 2009 2:44PM