http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/ Engadget Comments for Panasonic adds 58- and 65-inch models to heralded V10 NeoPDP family http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 5:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 5:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
Plasma sub-field drive put simply is how plasmas generate a certain level of brightness for each pixel. For 480Hz SFD, each video frame is divided into 8 sub-fields for a 60Hz NTSC/ATSC signal (60 x 8 = 480). This gives every pixel an 8-bit resolution equal to 256 levels of brightness. This means every pixel can produce brightness levels equivalent to 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, and 128 per sub-field, in that order. Sub-field 1 produces 1 step of brightness. Sub-field 2 produces 2 steps of brightness. Sub-field 3 produces 4 steps of brightness, and so forth. To get in-between steps of brightness, you turn on or off a pixel during a sub-field and add up the individual brightness levels. Say you need a brightness of 115 which in 8-bit binary is 01110011. Flip the binary number around to 11001110 to see when the pixel would need be active during the sub-fields. So you need to activate the pixel during sub-fields 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7 producing levels of 1, 2, 16, 32, and 64 which total up to 115 -- our target brightness. Scale appropriately for 600Hz sub-field drive. (Read this PowerPoint presentation for a more technical and in-depth explanation: http://fpd.intellectip.org/PrincipleV2.ppt )

The side effect of this is that when the pixels 'blink', that portion of your eyes can relax and reset, reducing the image retention effect -- the phenomenon where an image is retained in your vision even after you stop viewing it (to experience it, stare at a light bulb for a second or two, then close your eyes. This is not to say that your eye's tendency to retain images is bad, it's the reason why we can perceive smooth motion in videos with as low as 24 frames per second). LCD pixels don't 'blink', so your retina is constantly bombarded by light which in turn leaves afterimages producing the 'blurring' or 'ghosting' effect that slow refresh panels are so infamously known for. Faster refreshing LCDs can reduce this effect, but it never truly goes with 60Hz material due to 60Hz being equivalent to having a 16ms response time. To get an 8ms response time means operating the LCD at 120Hz and displaying 120 fps material. The problem is that the NTSC/ATSC TV system operates at 60Hz and 60 frames/fields per second. This means that the TV has to produce the extra 60 frames needed to get 120 fps, usually by interpolation of frames which can produce some odd effects. LCDs with 'scanning backlights' can give your eyes that rest period to eliminate the retention problem, but can introduce other effects like flicker if done at too slow a rate. Remember how old CRT computer monitors would flicker if set at 60Hz?

You cannot really compare what effect the 120Hz and 240Hz LCD technology does and the 480Hz and 600Hz sub-field drive does. They both reduce the eye's tendency to retain images to reduce the perception of blurring images but do it in different ways with advantages and disadvantages to both methods. The interpolation method of LCDs can improve clarity of objects moving at constant speeds and directions (check out the tickers at the bottom of the screen when you watch CNN or ESPN and compare a 120Hz LCD versus a plasma), but can introduce the 'soap opera' effect where 24fps film material looks like it was shot on video cameras. Plasma has greater motion resolution due to the sub-field drive process and inherently lower blurring, but it doesn't address the fact that fast moving images have inherent blur if shot or produced at 60Hz (remember, 60Hz is equal to having a 16ms response time).

And then there's the issue of judder, but that's another post...]]>Sep 3rd 2009 6:39AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
The same goes for dynamic contrast ratio. A plasmas actual contrast ratio (which is really the number you wanna pay attention to) looked horrible compared to the ridiculous "dynamic" contrast ratio numbers LCDs were publishing, so to combat that they started posting their own dynamic contrast ratio numbers. Plasma has not changed AT ALL to get these numbers, that capability has always been there.]]>Sep 3rd 2009 11:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 5:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/rezaudio/MoviesontheWall.jpg

]]>Sep 3rd 2009 5:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 5:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
If by stretched you mean distorted then I'm afraid you're wrong - the image is perfect (cinema aspect) but I guess the camera is not great (another Panny!?)

]]>Sep 3rd 2009 5:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
Maybe you eyes are "failing" you.]]>Sep 3rd 2009 6:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
Compare your picture and the image in this one: http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9467/moviesonthewallcorrecte.jpg

Throw up test patterns from a proper calibration disc and you'll see that circles are ovals and squares are rectangles with that setup.]]>Sep 3rd 2009 7:15AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
Ermm - I don't know what you did to my image there but yours makes my room look smaller and boxy. I don't really understand your comment but I have tested the projector with test patterns etc. and to me and everyone else I know it is not stretched!? I've been watching wide-screen films on this for 3 years now.

I can only imagine that it's the camera that is giving this view - although I still can't see it so maybe my eyes are failing me!

BTW: the movie is coming out of the back of the laptop - does that make a difference?
]]>Sep 3rd 2009 7:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
It's possible that the computer's output is only coming out at 4:3 or it is detecting the projector as a 4:3 or 5:4 aspect ratio device and outputting one of those resolutions. Without knowing what type of connection you are using (VGA, DVI, HDMI, etc.) and the model of the projector, I can only guess at solutions. But most of them involve setting the resolution of the monitor output of the graphics chip to 1280 x 720 resolution for a 720p projector (which I assume you have) or 1920 x 1080 for a 1080p projector.

Download and display the 16:9 test pattern from here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/movie-theater-video-masses,965-3.html on that laptop and then break out the tape measure to verify. Honestly, it should be pretty obvious without measuring it if the image is stretched.

BTW, the reason why the rest of your room is distorted is because I did a simple global resize on your image. It (approximately) corrected the stretched image of that scene from Wanted, but in return it distorted your room. I could have done a proper photoshop of it, but I didn't feel like going through all that just to prove a point.]]>Sep 3rd 2009 8:09AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
@ Willen

Thanks for the detailed response. I think the first thing to check is that the laptop is outputting at 1280 x 720 to the projector and if that's not the case I assume I will need a driver?

It's a Panasonic PT-AX100E projector with VGA out of the laptop.

I appreciate your input!]]>Sep 3rd 2009 8:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 9:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
and yes, the picture is stretched. fact.]]>Sep 3rd 2009 12:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 5:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 5:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
600Hz sub-field drive has everything to do with brightness -- see my reply to blackmagic above. It allows them to get a finer grayscale by running the panel at 10 bits per pixel compared to 8 bits for a 480Hz SFD model. It just nice that as an added effect it improves motion resolution which is why they went from 480Hz SFD in previous models to 600Hz to go from the 950 lines to 1080 lines like you mentioned.]]>Sep 3rd 2009 6:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9396469&st=tc-p58v10&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1218098557263

numptyl, it seems the models you saw were not hooked up to blu-ray players. It seems only Panasonic has a proper film mode. Thoughts on that anyone?
See http://hdguru.com/the-new-king-of-hdtv-displays-panasonics-tc-p54v10-reviewed/458/ for more information.]]>Sep 3rd 2009 5:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 5:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 6:25AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
Awesome, thanks for the detailed reply. =]

(I don't comment much, so I don't know if this reply will appear right below your post or not...If not, I apologise lol)]]>Sep 3rd 2009 6:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
I have seen them set up in a sony store running off a bdps363 blu ray player and have seen both models been put back to factory settings and the blu ray running. The pana just seems to have a dark green shade to the screen I think the g10 model is meant to have 100hz (in terms of motion) but against a W series tv it looks like it has 50hz its very stop starty on panning shots.
Also one of the clips that is playing on the blu ray is the trailer from Angels and Demons and the beginning part is a panning shot at nighttime from the Vatican, the pana struggles in the nighttime scenes with it being very hard to pick out detail in the dark and a lot of the dark parts looking like blobs. If you live in the UK most Sony Centres should have this display running if you want to check it out :)]]>Sep 3rd 2009 7:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 8:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
Thanks for the detailed response. I think the first thing to check is that the laptop is outputting at 1280 x 720 to the projector and if that's not the case I assume I will need a driver?

It's a Panasonic PT-AX100E projector with VGA out of the laptop.

I appreciate your input!]]>Sep 3rd 2009 8:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 10:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 8:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 10:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/Sep 3rd 2009 8:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-adds-58-and-65-inch-models-to-heralded-v10-neopdp-fam/
I picked my 58" up 2 weeks ago at Brandsmart here in Atlanta. Walk out price of $2399 WITH a 5 year warranty. IT was the same price that best Buy had online before a warranty. AND best Buy had none available in stores or online to ship. This is a wonderful set. I tried doing a calibration with DVE Blu-Ray and in "standard" mode, the only change I had to make was to push Color about 8 steps up. You really do have to see this TV to believe it. It really is hard to imagine the Kuro being better. And at 1/3 the price.

This news really is a bit old...]]>Sep 4th 2009 1:42PM