http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 8:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 9:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
This is OLED.

But there's no different...
isn't it?]]>Sep 14th 2009 9:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/OLED refers the the type of backlight]]>Sep 14th 2009 9:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
the comparative contrast ratios are pretty crazy.]]>Sep 14th 2009 9:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMOLED ...... It has nothing to do with the brand.]]>Sep 14th 2009 10:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
Good post except for the power savings issue. It's a misconception that OLEDs use less power - in reality, they use a bit less power in some light conditions and displaying some images, but on most screen content and they use a lot more power than an equivalent LCD.

When displaying a typical web page, an OLED screen will use around three times the power of an LCD.]]>Sep 14th 2009 11:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
OLED screens do not need backlights. electricity passes through the organic material and when it changes to its color(blue, red, or green), it also lights up. ]]>Sep 14th 2009 11:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
If the day ever comes that a "typical" web page is 100% white pixels this statement will be true.
Until then stop drinking the LCD shills Kool-aid.

With the black background, the HD's menu screens will use about 35% of the power that an LCD would use. I'm not sure a 65% reduction counts as a bit less.


You sound like this idiot on AT who spams every Zune HD thread with a list of "facts" about how terrible OLED screens are.

]]>Sep 14th 2009 11:25AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/its in the acronym!

anyways, it would use more energy as more diodes are lit. probably partially why they went with a black background on a lot of interface, because of the lower power consumption.]]>Sep 14th 2009 11:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 12:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 2:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
It's amazing how AWESOME it looks on my LCD monitor......

Wait a minute.....]]>Sep 14th 2009 3:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
If there's one thing that kills companies, it's not adapting and evolving. The iPod is doing just that, standing still, little memory capacities that not many people care for anymore (except the 64gb touch) and just plain old re-hashing. A video camera? Most people don't care. OLED screen, HD radio - these are things people get excited about.]]>Sep 14th 2009 4:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 5:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
While you are close with your 35% power figure for the menu (around 40% is the figure I'd heard), how much of your time is spent just looking at a menu that is 95% black? What's the point of having a screen if you can't turn the pixels on?

Real world use cases all show that it's not very much and, I'm sorry to say it, but that little thing called evidence proves how much worse they are in most other use cases. I don't want to buy a product where I can only use the menu and can't look at any content or the battery will die. A 200nit OLED showing a white screen uses 330% of the power of a 200nit LCD showing a white screen.

OLEDs get worse in terms of efficiency, pretty much exponentially, the harder you drive them, so the difference gets much, much worse the brighter you get. Furthermore, you need to drive the OLED harder than an LCD to achieve the same level of brightness output because the LCDs use some of the incoming light to improve the picture quality.

In reality, most good mobile LCDs output about 5-600nits. That makes them much better in sunlight, but let's ignore that to answer your argument.

You claim that no website is 100% white and that anybody who claims differently must be an LCD shill. I am no LCD shill - I am responsible for investigating and selecting the best technologies for my company's products. If OLEDs stood up to close inspection, I would be on here saying they were better and I would be choosing them.

So let's look at your claim and generously assume that a quarter of the screen is covered in pictures (that would be one fussy website to look at). Pictures, in that 200nit output mode, take around 80% of the power of the LCD, whereas the white bit takes 330% of the LCD.

Let's do the maths: (75% of screen x 330%) + (25% x 80%) = 270% of the LCD's power consumption, and that is assuming the best case for OLEDs that the screen brightness is turned down to 200nits. Turn that brightness up and my estimation of 3x the power is very, very low.

Assuming that a TFT display takes about half the power of a phone when it's on, which is conservative, that means that, if your LCD phone lasts 5 hours of web browsing with a TFT, it would only last for 2.5 hours with an OLED. Granted, if you only stay looking at your menu, then that is reversed, but who wants to do that?

I'm sorry for you if you prefer to ignore evidence and think of anybody who disagrees with you as an idiot. You're absolutely welcome to your own opinions and to choose whichever products suit you best, but the fact of the matter is that products that use OLEDs suffer from bad battery life, poor outdoor readability, short lifetimes, poor colour reproduction, bad screen burn like a 1st gen plasma and uneven fading of the colours.

If they didn't have major flaws, why wouldn't they have caught on, having been hyped to the point of boredom for the last decade?

But, seriously, choose what you want - make your own minds up. The market will decide what is best suited to customers' wants and commercial pressures.

I'm just trying to let you know what the drawbacks are before you make that decision. Trust me, the Microsoft and OLED industry marketing machines won't be telling you about the bad bits, will they?]]>Sep 14th 2009 6:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
Sorry man, the earth isn't flat, I don't care how loud you yell. ]]>Sep 14th 2009 6:23PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
Most of the sites I visit are significantly less than 75% white, and you're average picture uses closer to 60% of the power of an LCD not 80%, then we figure in all the black text on the page which uses next to nothing, unlike an LCD which needs power to backlight and then block the backlight to produce "black".



I don't mind spin, but please label it as such. ]]>Sep 14th 2009 6:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
8.5 hours of video. How do you explain that much time with a relative little battery?

O yea, Oled. Care to explain?]]>Sep 14th 2009 9:07PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 8:57AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 9:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 11:17AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 12:07PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 8:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 10:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 10:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 12:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
It seems like it'd have to at this point, right?]]>Sep 14th 2009 12:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
I'm mildly tempted to head over the border to pick one up, but I'm also not quite wealthy enough to comfortably drop that much cash on a new, untested product if I'm not going to have manufacturer support/warranty to fall back on.]]>Sep 14th 2009 2:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/The greatest PMP of the year.]]>Sep 14th 2009 9:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
No competition at all.

The third gen Touch lacks too much..]]>Sep 14th 2009 11:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 2:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 15th 2009 5:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 9:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 9:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/I have't heard any word on us Canadians getting the precious, Although I plan on getting someone in the zune community to order me a red originals as soon as they drop.

COME ON MS GIVE US THE GOODS AND GO INTERNATIANAL.]]>Sep 14th 2009 9:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/I think so.]]>Sep 14th 2009 9:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 9:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 10:43AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
He was downvoted (by me at least) due to using all caps, not because of his argument.]]>Sep 14th 2009 11:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
So we still need Microsoft to start thinking internationally even if the hardware can be shipped internationally.]]>Sep 14th 2009 2:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 9:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 9:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 9:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
And the black is just black not a coal colour.]]>Sep 14th 2009 9:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 2:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 6:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/
Your balls drooped??]]>Sep 14th 2009 11:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 9:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/zune-hd-sold-early-still-unusable-until-tomorrow/Sep 14th 2009 3:41PM