Engadget Podcast 164 - 09.27.2009
By Trent Wolbe 
posted September 27th 2009 6:04PM
posted September 27th 2009 6:04PM
It's been a crazy week in news, and after a couple cross-country flights the podcast crew is together and ready to break it all down. Join Josh, Paul and Nilay as they take on Microsoft's Courier tablet concept and rumored Pink smartphones, dish on the HTC Leo and Windows Mobile, debate the finer points of net neutrality, and talk over the highlights from the Intel Developer Forum and the Tokyo Game Show. Yeah, there's a ton here -- grab a snack and tune in!
Hosts: Joshua Topolsky, Nilay Patel, Paul MillerProducer: Trent Wolbe
Song: Today
Hear the podcast
00:02:34 - Microsoft's dual-screen Courier booklet emerges, isn't near production
00:06:18 - Codex and InkSeine -- the roots of Microsoft's Courier?
00:33:30 - Microsoft's Pink phones revealed?
00:43:00 - HTC Leo looking confirmed for O2 UK debut, will be free on the right plan
00:46:20 - Steve Ballmer talks 'three screens and a cloud' and more with TechCrunch
00:50:00 - Ballmer: Windows Mobile 7 should have been out, like, yesterday
00:55:58 - FCC chairman formally proposes net neutrality rules
00:58:45 - AT&T, Verizon poised to fight FCC's net neutrality stance on the wireless front
01:10:00 - AT&T's 3G MicroCell tested and reviewed by Charlottean: yes, it works
01:13:56 - Intel announces Moblin 2.1 for phones
01:18:07 - Dell announces Moblin Mini 10v at IDF (updated with pricing)
01:17:25 - Video: Moblin 2.1 for MIDs and phones, sort of in action
01:21:15 - USB 3.0 has a SuperSpeed coming-out party at IDF
01:22:44 - Video: Intel's Light Peak running an HD display while transferring files... on a hackintosh
01:28:40 - 13 PS3 motion control games confirmed for next year, motion-enhanced Biohazard 5 coming Spring 2010
01:30:03 - Nintendo finally confirms new $199 Wii price
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Twitter: @joshuatopolsky @futurepaul @reckless @engadget
Nice Courier tablet. Can't wait to have a listen. Was afraid this wasn't going to happen till later this week.
I thought the courier tablet discussion would never end.
It's a pretty slick leak for a full concept. There was heavy doubt through the whole thing.
I can't believe they are so against stylus input. It's so nice.
Dude! the courier will be awesome! it will fulfill all my Firefly dreams!! :D pen interfaces can be awesome if well instituted. Walking down the street? dude, it's dual 7 inchers, no WAY am I using that while walking around. that's the only reason to NEED a capacitive screen.
yay! glad to see the podcast finally up!
its this supposed to be number 165?
last weeks was 164, and the week before that the aol computer deleted it.
Nope, it's 164 -- that's how many podcasts we've published. You're right that we lost the original 163, but we number based on publication, not week.
Good One!
Thankyou ........
supposed to be 165
Will the podcast be live on ustream next week?
yeah how come no live broadcast this week?
We couldn't get together to record until late Friday night, so we figured no one would be around for a live show. We'll bring back the live show as soon as things calm down!
Just wondering here but why is the panel so against MS developing their own hardware (because it would piss off their existing partners). I personally think you are going to see MS get much more in the hardware game going forward but doing something like releasing their "reference design" as a product. Lets face it apple has been killing all other computer manufacturers in hardware design the past 4 or 5 yrs. And MS has come out with some really great hardware designs over the years.... why not bring some innovation to their hardware as well?
I expect if the courier is released it will be based off the MS reference and I think you will see windows mobile 7 have a similar reference design released.
Great case for net neutrality, Nilay. One of the best, most concise explanations I've heard
Firefox 3.5 support playing OGG (and video too incidentally) without plugins or flash with simple HTML(5), so it would be nice if sites like engadget would help encourage such open standards by adding a simple ogg player as seen in examples on mozilla.org.
I try to play the YouTube Demo of HTML5 it didn't work for me, but I did get DailyMotion to work on the Firefox 3.5.3.
Well the youtube one seems to be working in safari only? So they are being silly with overdoing it I guess.
some info links regarding the functionality in firefox:
https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Using_audio_and_video_in_Firefox
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Configuring_servers_for_Ogg_media
The basic system isn't complex as you see in the first link.
But I can see how engadget has hesitance since they have the blogsmith software on top and the actual server stuff is yet another party, but it would be nice to see some more people use some basic html5 stuff.
And it can't harm to suggest it.
Great podcast Engadget! I think you just got me hooked.
I like the MID form-factor but there are three reason why I didn't get that.
1. No distribution channel in the US
2. Price is rather high compare to Netbook
3. Battery life is rather weak compare to Netbook.
You guys have let me down this week. I was looking forward to listening to your podcast on my weekly two-hour drive this afternoon. Instead, I had to listen to Kotaku Talk Radio (no offense to them, I just really needed my technology fix today).
Someone get Paul Miller off this show. Really bringing down the conversation, sorry.
i like Paul, he can stutter but he has good opinions and ideas
You mention an example of Microsoft doing the type of project that the Courier is with the Xbox 360: Uh, you do realize that J Allard is rumored to be the head of this project, like he was with the 360?
As for Inkseine, I'm shocked how much you guys really don't understand it at all. Inkseine is nothing more than a Windows Journal replacement with added search features and a new interface to it.
I'm skeptical myself, but for reasons entirely different from what you say. Your reasons are quite frankly, pretty dumb. All it is is a custom GUI over what's probably an embedded Windows. They don't need any new technology whatsoever. All the technologies are there, they just have to tie it together.
For the "jerks with good handwriting" comment in passing, just wow, I think it was Paul who said it, try out the Tablet Input Panel, Vista and Windows 7 handwriting recognition is great.
Nilay has at least used an actual tablet, and so it's fine if he doesn't really like the feel of writing on a screen, but that's different from Paul's comment.
Finally, at least there's a market for Microsoft's concept. For students, artists, or many other users, there's a great need for this type of product. With Apple, it's just an oversized iPod Touch. Don't get me wrong, it'll sell because it's Apple, but there's no actual compelling use for it.
Now as for a couple reasons to be skeptical, there's big ones. First of all is the navigation which seems overly complicated and not intuitive at all. But secondly, is the availability of programs. I'd almost guarantee this is running an ARM-based CPU with an embedded version of Windows. However, that'd mean that they'd have to work on program availability, such as PDF editing, OneNote, eBook reading, etc.
Oh, and the comments about the "two Oqos being tied together" for Codex is because a single person did it in his spare time at MS Research. It's not like a group came together and came out with a concept project like concept cars as you mention, it's that a guy was interested in it and put it together.
Codex already does most of the stuff that this does. All it needs is a better interface and sleeker design and that's Courier... and a single person did this a year ago.
And one last thing... if you don't like the feel of a pen on an active digitizer, felt nibs give more friction and make it feel a lot more like writing on a pen with paper.
Two main things:
1.) I predict they will do this something like Google did early with Android and the G1 - it's an HTC device, but it's Google branded. They would farm it out to HP or Asus to construct their design.
2.) Isn't it resistive? I mean, it's a pen interface...are there capacitive pens?
Paul and Nilay are both right: for the normal user, this would be a primary computer, and paired with a bluetooth headset and 4G, it would also replace their phone. It could succeed where MID's fail because (1) it doesn't demand that you hold it to your head and (2) like Josh said, it's a completely different idea, it doesn't run like, XP so people can decide how they want to use it, and not feel constrained by using an interface they are used to. If you don't need more than a cloud-based word processor and spreadsheets, it could fulfill all tasks an average user needs, even photo editing. Most ppl just need something like an iPhone or Pre, but they're too small for many ppl.
The Codex's demonstration of separating them seems to demand that each screen have its own processor. If they could do a Warlock like hack, or like AMD's dual processor tech, then it could be dual under-clocked atoms.
OS kernal: MinWin?
I'm am amateur(for now) musician/artist, and I can tell you, this interface, especially the pen, is exactly how I would love to interface with my data. I would put this in my bag for any affordable price.
Both Wacom and N-Trig make a dual digitizer that supports capacitive multitouch with electrostatic pen-based input.
Pen and stylus input are entirely different. Stylus = just a stick of metal or plastic. The Wacom and N-trig pens though are much different, and you get much more of a feel for actually writing with them.
As for the part about being an amateur musician... if you had a tablet I'd suggest checking out this: http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/research/music/tpc.html which basically lets you draw the sheet music and then it'll play it.
I've just realised that you've stopped posting the link for the ogg rss feed even though you continue to post the direct download link for the ogg file. Why is that? I still use the ogg rss feed from the time that the ogg rss feed was published in the posts. It's http://podcasts.engadget.com/rss-ogg.xml
I'm surprised you guys talked about Microsoft building hardware a few times, but never brought up the Surface.
Talking over each other in podcast = fail