We can hardly believe it but the day has finally arrived: Toshiba just launched the first Dynario fuel-cell for portable consumer electronics. That's right, the
long promised and
highly anticipated direct methanol fuel-cell (DMFC) with dedicated fuel cartridge for on-the-go refueling will go on sale October 29th in Japan for ¥29,800 (about $328) plus another ¥3,150 (about $34) for a set of five, 50ml fuel cartridges. Dynario takes about 20 seconds to fill its 14ml fuel tank with an injection of a concentrated methanol solution at which point it's ready to charge USB-connected devices. Dynario's hybrid structure uses a lithium-ion battery to store enough electricity to charge two typical cellphones, according to Tosh. That works out to be about $1 per recharge, if our calculations are correct, based on the fuel costs alone. We assume the battery can be charged via wall socket power too but this isn't explicitly stated in the press release. The first run consists of only 3,000 units after which Toshiba will gauge consumer reaction before extending the launch outside of Japan. Boy oh boy, a new age in portability has begun.
posted Oct 22nd 2009 1:55AM
looks like a winner.
Winner, if you can actually produce methane at home from...OH FORGET THE FART JOKES FOR A SECOND!!!...electricity. I don't know if it's that much of an improvement from disposable batteries if we need to go buy some methane each time it runs out, even if it lasts a while.
$34 for 50ml which would give 3 recharges?? You could buy a new battery for that much.
It says $34 for a set of five 50ml.
it's methanol not methane. i guess engadget doesn't read the read links themselves either. you could convert methane to methanol but they are not the same.
i guess thomas makes changes to the article without stating it has been changed. well, that's one of the reasons this site is considered a blog and not a real news site.
Just a thought here,
But last year I bought a portable battery which can power any device via USB and has 5400 mAh, which will actually give my cellphone three to four charges, my PSP at least two and my PDA two or three charges. It cost me nearly as much as those five 50ml cartridges, with the added bonus that it's size is nearly a third of this device's, and actually less than one of the cartridges pictured above. So what am I gaining from purchasing one of these fuel cells?
P.S.-That was an actual question, I love my gadgets so I would love it if someone could present some pretty convincing arguments for buying a new one (namely, this one), because I really can't think of them on my own.
@Manny: It's true that buying this battery won't give you better value than an existing battery. But the idea is that this is an extremely new technology that people have been waiting for decades for! I know I've been waiting for the futuristic "fuel cell" to solve a lot of battery problems since the mid 90's.
So even though its very expensive and cumbersome now, the idea is that its hopefully going to become much better and potentially revolutionise the whole battery market. So its kind of like when mobile phones first came on the market, they were massive and extremely expensive, and for most people they were much better off using existing phones or pagers, but within 10 years the technology changed so rapidly that its become a whole industry in itself!
Battery technology is very slow at improving, but considering how much worldwide emphasis there is now to improve battery technology, it's obviously starting to happen, and that's what this new device represents: a new hope for the future.
I see people making comparisons to their device's battery vs this. This thing is Gen 1, forget the comparisons. They'll refine it later, right now it's important to get it out. I can imagine a Gen X version that uses the fuel a lot more efficiently (think cars gas)
It is a bit perplexing since the whole beauty of fuel cells is that they were suppose to hold at least 50 times as much charge per reload as a battery, and this does not then it seems, weird.
Kurian, you need some better math skills. $34 for 5 50 mil cartrages.
Each refill of the device takes 14 mil of methanol.
250 mil for $34 = about 18(17.85...) refills for $34
Each refill charges 2 typical devices. .
that's about 35 recharges for $34
That's about $1 per recharge as quoted in the article.
A typical cell phone uses 1500 mAH of power
Average Electric cost + delivery in NYC (where I live) = $0.3 per KWH
Guesstimating that the charging losses are 33% of total power delievered that's 2000 mAH or 2WH
(PSU efficency, internal resistance of batteries, etc)
Electric cost using NYC's extreemly high cost = $0.0006
Conclusion: It ain't about the cost but the convince.
who would this be good for, campers/hikers, business travelers (possibly not fliers depending on the FAA's decision)
Economical this is not...
@Mike_NYC: "Economical this is not..."
Yet...
"...direct methane fuel-cell..."
Finally, the day has come when our gadgets are powered by farts.
At last our fat asses can fuel the devices which keep our asses fat.
@Dante of the Inferno: I think you just discovered free energy my friend.
Finally. Some cool technology "that will come in the next few years" is here!
or.....
our farts can finally power devices that can reproduce fart noises via the 58,000 fart apps.
@CL
Energy from one fart powering even more farts;
it's fart amplification by stimulated emission of farts.
hah! you WISH!
scratch that, i'm an idiot... didn't see it was the same person.
The only time this would be useful for me would be at the airport or on a long flight. Sadly I bet after spending $300 the TSA would call it a bomb and "confiscate" it.
I don't think you can take it on the plane. Remember? No liquid on carry-on bags.... They should consider this before selling it
Incorrect, you can carry liquid in carryons. It must be in containers no larger than 3.4 oz or 100 ml and all such containers must fit in a 1 liter zip-lock plastic bag. See tsa.gov or the equivalent if you live outside the US.
$328+$34 just to charge cell phone?! EPIC FAIL
I don't get it.. 14ml to charge 2 cell phone each time and $34 for 50ml?
$34 for five 50ml cartridges. 14ml to charge 2 cell phones. 14ml/2charges * $34/(5*50ml) = $0.952 per charge
what's an irony, on one side we try to replace GAS with battery (automobiles) and another side we replace battery with GAS!..science is like that eh!
cheers to scientists!
They're all hydrocarbons. *shrug*
Just some easier to replace/mine than others.
Except if you're in the UK, where the idea of calling liquid petroleum 'gas' is absurd.
I think you find that 'gas' in connection with cars is short for 'gasoline', which is the north american term for petrol..
But yeah they should not shorten it to gas, it's silly and the yanks are exactly the people who would forget it's an abbreviation, and then start a war over it not being a liquid ;)
How long until we can plug this directly into a cow and charge up? Twould be great for the midwest lol.
you know, you could not check the "email me when someone replies to this comment" button...
Now if they could just figure out a way to somehow install convenient connections in homes, hotels, airports and the like, where we could just connect our devices to directly receive energy...
"Boy oh boy, a new age in portability has begun."
In a world packed with power outlets? yah, my forecast is that lithium air will knock the pants off this thing.
@Thomas Ricker
I think you mean Direct METHANOL Fuel Cell instead of methane. Methane (CH4) is a gas, not a liquid like the methanol.
While it sounds great, you just can't run to the store and buy methane, and I doubt you can carry this on a plane. So it really limits its uses.
well airport limit is 200ml.. so i guess you give it a try.
All flammable liquids are banned, but I guess you know that.
Even a zippo is not allowed, and those are from the ominous zippo company who gets access to secret copyright bills.
It would make a nice little airplane bomb for terrorists. a little distraction maybe while they high jack the flight and slam the plane into some government building.
this is definitely not a travel friendly charger.
-]
Are there byproducts to this methanol solution? Water?
sad part is that ms is "TRYING" to be like apple....
What the fuck?!! o_O
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3837585.stm
"This is how you could be fuelling your MP3 player in 2005" - BBC REPORT BELOW, lets all have a laugh
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3837585.stm
"concentrated methanol" its a simple organic chemical, you can dilute it but you cant concentrate it more than pure methanol, its not OJ.
All these devices will be by "hybrid" systems, using a battery. Because the fuel cells have an issue where the minimum power output (other than 0) is something like 20% of the peak output. So if you have a device like a phone where the peak draw can be 500mA, but the standby draw is more like 10mA, the device would waste 90mA if it were on during standby. So the cell is turned on to charge the battery, then when the battery gets low again, the fuel cell comes on again for a short period. Unless of course you are using the device at peak draw.
It's this problem which means that the cells cannot replace batteries, only supplement them, which means any fuel-cell device will be larger than a battery-only device and therefore there are limited uses for these fuel-cells.
Couldn't they just make the battery smaller since it wouldn't have to store as much charge anymore?
f you spamtard
But that'd take so much time, he'd never have a chance to be first that way!
REPLY!
this product in itself isn't much good. it's first gen. some people will buy it; most won't... frankly the current alternatives are better.
think about the next steps for this technology... when this is small enough to fit inside a battery we have the moment so all devices are powered by methanol. hopefully they get it into laptops within a couple of years.
this coming to market is a massive step forward for the gadget market.
I cannot see how anyone could justify spending over $300 just to recharge their cellphone. If I'm really in need I can always find a cigarette lighter or wall socket somewhere to charge my phone.
The simplest thing to do is just get a phone (like the G1) that you can carry extra batteries for, & they only retail for $25.00 each. Only a fool would waste his money on something like this. Oh, how easy/convenient is it going to be to buy extra refueling carts. Run out of those & what good is this unit??
Not everyone stays in the city. Hikers for example may need Sat Phones, GPSs, or other electronics in the field, and need a way to charge them. In the past they had to carry batteries, but with a charger like this it might work better, particularly if they can get more power per a pound.
I would like to see this work with commodity "fuels" like methylated spirits / isopropynl alcohol / rubbing alcohol, lighter fluid or butane gas of the kind used to charge gas lighters. This is because if you need to buy more of the fuel, you can get it cost-effectively at local supermarkets, convenience stores or service stations rather than haveing to get a supply of the fuel through mail order.
Methanol is a commodity, look in the paint department of your hardware store. As Evan commented, "concentrated methanol" does not exist. If anyone doubts that, I have some "concentrated water" I am willing to sell them.
I'm not sure what people have been waiting for in the portable fuel-cell arena, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't it.
I actually laughed! :D
It's an epic-fail, however a very funny one, so I'm really torn now, which button to press [+] or [-] mmmmm....
Oh god I'm first? Please don't flood my email??? I should screencap and see what e/b/aums thinks of this
wouldn't it be infinitely cooler to just have a small engine as a generator charging your phone? like the small 1-cylinder ones on RC cars. and you can get gasoline anywhere, for a fraction of the price.
I may be a little ill informed but does the revolution really begin? A quick hop over to Wikipedia says methanol will burn in air forming water and carbon dioxide.
Aren't we haven't enough issues with CO2?
The methanol isn't being burned, but yes, the byproducts are water and CO2. I would imagine that the amount of CO2 produced would be less than say a coal burning power plant that sends electricity to a home to charge the device.
The real potential in this technology is a hybrid system where you wouldn't have to worry about recharging your phone, as it would have a small battery plus a fuel cell to keep that battery charged. Just keep refilling with methanol and you would never have to worry about finding a power source to recharge your phone.
Can someone explain to me why this technology is the future and why it's so helpful? I honestly don't get it.
Shopping for and carrying bottles of liquid around doesn't sound convenient. And the power output doesn't seem to be that much greater. Is there promise of it creating much longer lasting power down the road?
Seems like a far bigger revolution will be when solar-charging devices get really efficient. That truly would be convenient - just leave your device or charger in the window. No outlets or liquids required.
Yes they are suppose to be many many times more efficient than batteries, even though this one isn't it seems and therefore we'll have to wait, perhaps the real efficient ones are too risky for the public at large?
I think engadget once had an article about one that would last for months.
@neo look at the top.
People this thing is a Direct Methanol Fuel Cell (DMFC) not an Direct Methane Fuel Cell. Methane chemical formula is CH4, Methanol chemical formula is CH3OH. Methanol is also referred to as wood alcohol. The by-products of the DMFC are CO2 and H20. It is not powered by farts.
PPGMD has it right. This product is more suited to campers/hikers who do not have access to any power source in the middle of a forest, desert, or mountain.
It's not going to replace your spare batteries or regular portable chargers.
You know I could go to home depot and buy a gallon of methanol for $15... Suddenly it becomes more economical. At least until they DRM their methanol.
Ever heard of the 24/7 Xtreme from Medias? T-Mobile is offering it on its accessories site. (MDTL)
HAHAHAHAHA I gave you a +1... people just see "first" and they directly go for the -1 and hating