Adobe's seemingly
tried everything in its fight to get Apple to tear down enough development barriers to get Flash ported to the iPhone, culminating in a
native compilation option in CS5 that... well, really doesn't solve much of anything. So far, nothing's worked. What's next? Get the masses fired up with some old-fashioned propaganda and let 'em riot down at One Infinite Loop, of course! Visiting Adobe's Flash download page from an iPhone now shows a pretty tersely-worded message informing the user that they're getting short-changed simply by Apple's refusal to budge, so yeah, if you hear an occasional cry of "this is outrageous, I'm writing Apple immediately!" while sitting at an airport gate or a coffee shop, you can safely guess what just happened.
posted Nov 2nd 2009 2:58PM
Shots fired!!!
I don't see flash on other devices like BB and Android so until that happens Apple is just as crappy as everyone else to me. If I saw flash running everywhere but Apple I think you would see people leaving the iphone to get the "real" internet and then Apple would be screwing themselves.
Google/android doesn't put any barriers in Adobe's way if they want to port flash to Android. Just because they haven't done it doesn't mean they're prevented from doing it.
Skyfire works fine with Flash on WinMo.
What? shots fired!? couldn't see the Flash page on that
Well as crappy as everyone else, except windows mobile which depending on which browser you use does have flash support, and siverlight support for that matter ;)
I think Apple should run a counter message saying:
"Hey, Adobe, get your crappy Flash code to work decent on our Macs first and then we can talking about porting it to the iPhone."
Flash on iPhone would be awesome, but since most other phones don't have it either I don't think it's such a big deal... yet.
Also, doesn't Flash run like crap on most other phones? I know some people will mention Skyfire, but I remember reading an article about how Skyfire is actually cheating or something. Just because you can do it doesn't mean that you should.
This is hilarious. First Palm and now Adobe taking action against Apple for all their restrictive ways. I hope Apple loses this battle.
afaik, skyfire just renders the page on a remote server and basically sends you screenshots of what's going on.
and really... if Apple ever allows flash to run on the iPhone, they'll inevitabally introduce a new one in order to do so, probably dubbing it the iPhone 3G F.
at any rate, i'm excited for "late 2009, early 2010" for flash to be ported to a variety handheld OS's. There's already a vid here on engadget somewhere of webOS getting some love.
@Win
I thought the iPhone is a leader, and is leaps and bounds above the competition. But it is OK for the iPhone not to have Flash because the competition does not have it? Why should anybody settle because the competition does not have it? This just sounds like the typical Apple fanboy rant of "Tech x is not important" when the competition has it (and they are getting it - http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/05/flash-10-1-announced-for-just-about-anything-with-a-screen-webo), but when Apple gets that feature, it moves them ahead of everybody. See MMS, copy and paste, mobile phones, mobile phones with portable media, a real SDK, and so much more.
"most other phones don't have it"
"Flash run like crap on most other phones"
Don't believe in that logic thing, do you?
The whole "Skyfire is cheating" logic...isn't really logic at all. It's more of an argument. So Skyfire uses webpages fully rendered by a seperate server, a thin client...And? This is what Skyfire does. Opera Mini does this to some extent. The fact that Skyfire is THAT fast and usable, we have to find fault for it, and call it a "cheating" browser? LOL?
HINT: Just use the browser already. So what if it uses a different method, it's all for YOUR experience, not for bragging rights. That's a big reason why I hate Gizmodo to this day.
Gee... I wonder if Microsoft is doing the same thing and that is why Adobe refuses to provide a 64bit flash for Windows 7... seems silly and two-faced that Adobe loses sleep over iPhone (which I also own) but not over Windows 64bit.
@WinBSODows: Most phones don't have Flash? Symbian has it, WM has it. Those alone already make most phones, by far.
But Flash sucks and should die. I'm with Apple on this, even tho I don't like either them or Adobe.
Shots fired? They must've been blanks. Do you really think the umpteen-bajillion people that bought an iPhone over the last 2.5 years haven't discovered Flash missing? Only (some) tech-geeks care about this, and even then, there still isn't enough outcry from them to get this in gear.
@ fastm3driver
was at the adobe conference a few weeks ago and they are rolling soon on Flash mobile 10.1 - *supposedly* a big improvement over previous versions
http://www.openscreenproject.org/
@NohOne
Funny how you seem to ignore that logic when the iPhone is ahead on any given area am i rite?
Hypocrite much?
@N900
This is not a discussion about browser, it's about Flash (I think Skyfire is great by the way). The point was from what we've seen so far Flash on mobile phones tends to suck. Skyfire makes it look good because it is not really Flash most of the time.
@ibelike
I am sorry, I should have said "most phones people give a damn about" (not referring to Symbian but rather the other OS you mentioned), But yes, at least we agree that Flash on mobiles phones sucks for the most part.
Again, just because you can and have the option to jump off a cliff doesn't mean you should do it (if you are a WinMo fan though go right on ahead lol)
Hey my WinMo Tilt 2 has an app for that... it's called skyfire and I just watched the latest South Park at lunch just now. 8)
Granted I don't know how they do it, but I also don't care. I install it (for free from the Mobile Store) and bam... off and streaming.
I am sure they will add it at some point, far too popular not too.
Flash should die, even if it means pain for us for a little bit.
That is why apple/google have started supporting HTML5 in Chrome/Safari.
For those of you that say Symbian/Winmo have flash all along, its only FlashLite which is much more restrictive.
I had a HTC diamond running flash lite, was cool for sure and I cant wait for full flash to be optimized for all smartphones.
Part of me wants to join the fight to get Flash on the iPod... but a much larger part of me would rather join Apple and fight to GET FLASH OFF THE DAMN INTERNET ALTOGETHER!
Apple are taking a stand against proprietary video format, the sooner the web is free of flash and silverlight the better.
HTML 5 video would be a better future.
For everyone calling skyfire cheating, Winmo also has native flash support in pocket IE 6, its not perfect, but it is there.
@Win, being I currently am an iPhone user and was a WinMo user (Blackjack 1) before that, I know all too well what an iPhone is capable of compared to the competition. I cannot wait until my contract is up, because really, there are only two things that the iPhone has over WinMo devices - it looks pretty and the browser is better than the one on WinMo (that does not mean Safari is good, it is just much better). I have no problem admitting when the iPhone is better, but the problem is that is only where it is better.
Saturday I was talking with the bartender of a place I go who also has an iPhone. He is not a tech guy, just a regular guy who bought into the "iPhones are cool" line that many others have. I asked him his experience, and it was the same as mine. Frequent lock-ups, freezes, taps that do not register in the correct place (especially in the favorites phone list - isn't it great when you click on the phone number of a friend that lives a few miles away, but it selects the number of a person a few list items down, and that person lives 3 time zones away and you are calling them at 1AM?).
The fact is, there is nothing special in an iPhone except in those two areas - Web browser and it has a pretty UI - that other phones has not had for years. People who use other devices (WinMo, Pre, Android, etc.) should be demanding more and better features. That is why I left WinMo in the first place, but after seeing the iPhone first hand for just short of 2 years, it is the reason why I will be leaving in March when my contract is up (I know, the 2 year contract should be up by now, but that is another long story about poor Apple quality).
I'm certainly not defending Apple, but regardless of manufacturer, I would not want Flash on my mobile phone. It already hogs enough system resources on my desktop computers, let alone on a device with a fraction of the RAM and processing power.
MNJP, who is Apple to decide what is, and what is not on the internet? It is odd how people like you cheerlead for Apple being open and using only standards, but then cheer how closed they are in how they don't allow anybody to develop for their device without their permission. Flash is, wether you like it or not, a de-facto standard in their file format, and uses W3C standards in how they integrate themselves into web browsers. But here Apple is ignoring those standards, and Apple is great for "fighting the man."
HTML 5 may be a better future, but this is a feature people want and is available now, not tomorrow. HTML 5 is still in draft status. Flash will be used for many, many years for various reasons: 1) Not everybody will upgrade to a HTML 5 browser the day the standard is released, 2) Not all developers will throw away their code simply because HTML 5 is available, 3) HTML source code is visible by all users, and not all developers want their code to be visible, 4) HTML 5 does not offer all the functionality of Flash.
As for Apple using non-proprietary formats, there are many examples of how this is laughable, but one TLA speaks volumes: MOV.
@fastm3driver
Umm android uses flash. I can do to youtube and play video straight from the site. I also can go to my website and see my flash play.
@NohOne
Really? You think those are the only features the iPhone has over other phones? Protip: Just because you played with an iPhone for 10 minutes at the Apple store doesn't mean you own one. Either you are on of those bozos saying the App Store is actually a bad thing or a really bad liar. Personally I think you are both. Sour grapes and all that.
Also, it's funny of you to bring up customer satisfaction when all the surveys thus far are telling us that people can't get enough of the iPhone, Flash or not.
I wonder who should I believe, them or you and your bartender story? Mmmm.....
Adobe needs to program Flash on a Mac better than they already do in order for me to fully agree that it's needed on the iPhone. But I do want Flash for the iPhone.
I bet Apple has set down with Adobe already and said "look, you gotta do ______ to get us to add it." And Adobe may have gone "f u" and figure they can just pressure Apple into conceding.
@Win, apparently you cannot read. As I wrote, I have had an iPhone for two years - my first one was bought when the 4GB was dropped and they went on clearance. That one was bricked a few months later by a firmware update. Apple refused to replace it even though it was only a few months old because they claimed I tried to Jailbreak it - something I did not do, so I bought another one. The second one was destroyed (not a fault of Apple, so no blame on their part here) so I now have a third one. I also have an iTouch and I have apps for sale on the App Store. So your "you only played with it for 10 minutes" line is an all-out lie.
Of course, anybody who does not paise Jobs for his creation does really have one, because every single person who has an Apple product are completely pleased and can find no fault, correct?
@Win:
Dude shut up, you're an idiot. I too have had an iPhone for over a year now and I completely agree with everything NohOne said. The only things the iPhone has over the competition is the UI and the browser. Other than that it's sllooooow, freezes constantly, endless updating email loop cycles that force me to restart my phone, crappy battery life (yes, other smartphones DO have better battery life), and is often times non-responsive. Apple continues to make the iphone worse, if I could go back to 2.2.1 I would instantly, but since you can't do anything with the iphone unless it's jailbroken, I can't.
Yeah the iPhone may have quantity in apps on the app store...but I never have, nor will I ever (unless it's reallllly good), paid for an app. Everything on my phone is free, or a trial, and hardly ever gets used. I've downloaded maybe two apps that I use regularly, and they're available on other phones.
You don't have to love Apple and everything they do just because you use an Apple product. There are many, and I mean MANY people I know who have iPhones and are already thinking of not renewing their contract and getting phones such as droid, pre, etc. Apple may have given the smartphone arena a second-life, but they're quickly being surpassed, and in many cases, already are.
@ChazClout
awesome.
tho... it kinda sickens me that the video was heavy edited
Its going to be very interesting to see how apple resonds
Freezes constantly? What the hell are you doing? I’m developing with a first day version 1.0 running 3.whatever, and the only reson this thing locks is because I just threw an app with 200 megs of video at it.
That said, I hate Flash. And, I would rather that Adobe had the good sense to re-code that damn app before subjecting my phone to it. Sadly, that will not be the case. But, I also agree with Adobe. WTF is Apple doing deciding upon this stuff? It has infuriated me, and the clients that want their apps approved, and find LP to not be entirely enticing.
I am betting long on Flash at the moment. Adobe, please get your sh*t together and tighten it up! Please! It so blows on OS X. Back to Objective C.
@jordan, yes, it freezes often. I do my development on my iTouch, and then when I am about to upload I do final testing on my iPhone to make sure everything works as expected. But yes, it freezes often, and in simple places. For example, a few weeks ago I had a meeting and I wrote the office number down in the notes app. I got to where the meeting was and started the notes app, but it froze. I clicked the home button, and nothing. I rebooted and started notes again, it froze but this time the home button worked. I started mail and it froze. After a reboot, I went straight to mail, and was able to look up where the meeting was. I need to reboot the device once a day, and it is totally unacceptable.
Sorry, that message was for nicholas.
N800 had flash enabled browser since forever.
@NohOne:
Very well-written and well reasoned...and it would have stayed that way until your imagined coup de grace:
The QuickTime container format is an open standard, has been for years, and is the container format for the mpeg 4 video specification. Either that, you don't know what "proprietary" means, because "MOV" is just as proprietary as engadget, windows, McDonald's fries and just about everything else. It is owned by someone :)
If you mean non-interoperable, well, note what I said before.
@NohOne
There's no such thing as an iTouch! Get it right.
The N900 has full flash... :)
I say this as an apple owner and fan, but in this matter, only one thing can be said:
Screw you, Apple.
Agreed. I want the option, why are they not giving it to me?
It's embarrassing that there's no flash on the iphone. It's inconvenient too.
@ David V.
Leo Laporte could not have said it better.
Because Apple wants control over what runs on your device and the Flash platform opens it up to running code that they have no control over. Apple argues Flash is inefficient, processor intensive and buggy, all of which are true. But let the customer decide.
(I swear by ClicktoFlash as it’s a great browser filter for Flash crap that can be overridden with a single click - best of both worlds).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8
"Again, who knew 25 years later they would become what they despised the most"...
by
Frank Black
It's not just about control from the perspective of what potentially inefficient code is running on their platform.
How many free flash based games are there on the tubez that have similar non-free apps in the app store? How many of those apps would be selling if you could play them for free using flash? That's the control that I think they worry about most.
@Frankenstein Black
Damn, you recycle that quote over & over! Maybe with a name like Frank Black, you can throw out a Pixies quote here & there instead.
Anyone who thinks Flash should be on the iPhone has never run it on anything but IE and Windows and likely wouldn't purchase an iPhone anyway.
Apple won't let you run flash for the same reason the Xbox360 doesn't have a web browser, they don't want you getting video content for free that they charge you for.
I'm sure next year or so apple will INVENT flash for the iphone for the new model
GTMac, that's exactly it.
Yeah for sure. The lack of flash is pretty lame. I am sure some safeguards could be put in place to alleviate some of their fears.
But I guess it goes in line with Apple's greatest strength and sometimes weakness, trying to make their devices easily accessible for anyone and protecting them from hurting themselves.
http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html
Yeah, my uncle wanted an ipod touch and was asking me whether i could watch videos.
I had to break it to him,......you can only watch youtube and ones with apps....which sucks
LOL, awesome! 8D
Between this and them blocking their OS on any device running an Atom processor and blocking GV and so much other stuff, I'm surprised Apple hasn't created more hate
brings an entirely new meaning to "think differnt"
brings an entirely new spelling of the word "different" as well
Hey, what's some grammar and spelling mistakes amongst friends?
@Dave
The difference between
I helped my uncle Jack off his horse
and
I helped my uncle jack off his horse
It matters.
Both will leave you with a sprained back.
anyone who gets mad at apple for not supporting a processor that none of their products use is a god damn idiot.
I feel sorry for the inbox of the person who comments here first.
It's an odd tactic, will Apple retaliate by blocking the site in the first place, or just do nothing? Very little chance it will make them budge.
I'd certainly hope Apple wouldn't start blocking websites on the iPhone. Blocking apps from their own market is bad enough, but blocking users from visiting certain websites? Dear God, that's a whole new can of worms. I can't ever see them doing that, due to the shit storm that would follow it.
I don't think its an odd tactic at all.
I never knew that Apple was preventing Flash from being ported to the iPhone, and it was right of Adobe to let users know that it isn't their fault and that they have been trying to get it there for them.
Apple is the world leader in combative advertising with its PC ads, they got everything that's coming to them.
I like Apple products alot and use Macs mostly today, but I neither think Jobs is a demi-god and I don't like his disrespect for Gates in advertising.
Bill Gates has had a much more significant contribution to computing than Jobs and is the world's largest philanthropist.
In terms of making computing affordable and more open, as well as giving back to the world for his success as a billionaire, Jobs should stand in reverence of Gates - or, at the very least, have the respect of not portraying him as a bumbling buffoon in tv commercials for years.
Apple = lockdown.
Apple = Douche
Apple says it's for the best.
They know what's better for you than you do.
you dropped your /s
>> "Apple = lockdown"
So true.
Yet when the iPhone launched and was missing some HUGE features like MMS and copy-n-paste... people still bought it. And while people complained that you couldn't change the battery or add more memory cards... people still bought it. And when their app store opened, and they wouldn't allow some apps for whatever reason... people still bought it.
So, Apple might be the most evil and closed company ever... but the iPhone is still selling. Obviously, the positives outweigh the negatives.
It would be one thing if you said "Apple was too locked down... and that's why the iPhone failed" in hindsight. But, that's clearly not the case today. Maybe when 30 million Droids are sold and Android is everywhere, you can talk about how crappy Apple is. But that time is not now...
And cue apple fanboy in 3....2.....1.....
IM HERE. Im here, ok what do i gatta do.
alright, gimme a sec..
ok. Wtf guys flash is old, terrible technology. Flash is broken, not safari. Even though every other browser can deal with it fine...
Classic Jay, simply classic.
You might call me a "fanboy" but I think that's pretty funny by adobe. Can they both just man-up and write Flash "Medium" or whatever it is the iPhone needs.
@d0mth0ma5: Adobe might even make a Flash Low... or a Flash Almost-Nothing. It will continue to be a code interpreter - an app or plugin running another language (Actionscript on this case) inside the iPhone - which is what Apple doesn't allow.
So... you're a fanboy.
@DivinoAG - I thought that Apple's (or rather Job's) beef was that Flash Lite was too light, whereas regular flash was too intensive. So Apple were looking for a middle-ground and flash don't want to have a middle-ground. Don't get me wrong it's Apples fault and as I said before kudos to adobe for calling them out on this, eventually.
There are two things here. First is that, like I said before, Apple doesn't allow code interpreters on the iPhone. So unless they decide to change that policy (which is a real policy, and not just "a habit" concerning what they allow or not on the App Store), there can be no Flash on the iPhone.
Second is what does allowing Flash means. Flash Lite is a limited version of the Flash Player that restrict what is possible for developers to do. Almost no developers create content that is fully compatible with Flash Lite, so even if Mobile Safari had support for that, it wouldn't allow you to see "The Real Web™". So you actually believe that the solution is for Adobe to create a new third Flash platform, yet incompatible with all the content that already is out there, just to please Apple's ludicrous demands because they don't want to use what they SHOULD, like everybody else [will be using by 2010]?
Sorry, but Adobe already have the platform everybody wants and uses. Their job is to make that available to everybody, which is what they're doing with the Open Screen Project. The only problem here is Apple.
@d0mth0ma5
I think I saw a Bud Light commercial like this, but it was too light and too heavy. This leads me to the obvious question of when do I get to through somebody out of a moving car?
It is getting pretty pathetic that Apple won't add flash. I think Adobe would even do most of the work just to get the platform on the iPhone. Apple just doesn't think their users need it because it would lower the battery life but I think most people would rather have a slightly lower battery life while being able to stream Hulu (I would be one of those). If people don't like the decreased battery life, it would optimally have a way of being turned off. If this happened, everyone would be happy.
exactly. apple should not be the one determining that sort of stuff. if you wanna use flash and have decreased battery life, then so be it. if not, then don't. just make it avalable and let the users decide.
I think Apple doesn't want Flash because of the sheer number of flash programs (games) available online for FREE. I suspect it would have SOME effect on App store sales? Writing apps in Flash is easy and would bypass Apple's approval process.
Also, would it be possible to brick an iPhone via Flash? They may be trying to avoid this type of issue as well.
I always thought it was more not wanting to give up control over their app marketplace that prevented Apple from allowing Flash on the iPhone, not and sense of honor on preventing low battery life. If they allowed Flash, then 90% of these junk apps (note, not calling all apps junk apps, I'm talking about the ones that are crap), that are readily available in Flash for free would be accessed through that, and they'd lose a source of income from all the people buying the junk.
I don't think it has to do with the battery. I think it has everything to do with the fact that AT&T's network can't support the amount of streaming that would come of this...
bloatware
flash cookies
memory leakage
flash ads with spyware stored in the flashdb and flash cookies
ain't going on my phone
ClickToFlash, noob.
and for you to point out all those negatives for the content that has been running fine on my phone (and my browser) WITHOUT any of those things you mentioned is core ignorance.
I see a lot of crap about Flash being buggy for made for animated ads as well as why apple if rejecting flash.
1st) Those buggy, slow moving memory heavy flash sites are so because they were coded poorly. Flash can be written rock solidly, and very efficiently. It's all of those 'I know flash' people ripping off clients when they only 'know ABOUT flash'
2nd) Flash does not work on the iphone because of the bs, locked down, control freak nature or the sandboxed (x2) architecture of the iphone. It is not that apple WILL NOT accept flash it is that it just will not work on the iphone due to forced isolation of each app from the hardware and flash needs comprehensive access to that hardware. It's apples crappy design that prevents it. It's the same reason cut&paste took so long, they had to figure out a way around their own crappy design.
As for the 'flash sucks because it is just for ads' people, I say browsers suck. I mean they are just for html and flash which is just for ads!
oh yeah, Apple is crap.
-K
yikes! no beating around the bush.
good work.
I don't know who is to blame here but supporting flash on the iPhone is beneficial to both parties.
And while they're at it how about fixing flash on my MacBook so it doesn't explode every-time I try to watch a Hulu video.
The explosions are a feature, not a bug.
-Taylor
they should have taken it like the big company they are and on that page put;
"Until Apple stop being a bunch of A-holes you'll never ever get Flash on your iPhone, go get a good phone like a Palm Pre or something based on Android."
If they did that, I might actually respect Adobe a little bit. And I own a touch.
If Apple are this opposed to Flash, I would love to read the rejection if there were an attempt to port Silverlight.
Frankly, I don't blame Apple for blocking Adobe Flash Player. I think they ought to support Java, Python, and other interpreted languages; however, given that Flash Player has become a major source of security vulnerabilities (it's the new IE!), Apple's decision makes sense.
No it doesn't, you're just an iDiot. Security vulnerabilities? Really! I didn't know the the iPhone OS was as bad as windows. You lemmings sound like an abused woman "he beats me because he loves me" Stop trying to defend Apples stupid logic.
Sure is TOLD IN HERE.
As much as I like flash I don't think I want to wait for flash ads to load in my little safari browser.
good point, and on that note, when will AdBlockPlus be ported to Safari for iPhone? :3
Good on Adobe. Apple are being idiotic in their closed platform, one-app-at-a-time mindset. Sure, it makes for a phone that's good fun to play with. But there's a difference between "playing around" with a phone, and actually "getting stuff done" with it. And until Apple realises this, their otherwise well-designed products will be shunned by those who invest money in a product that they expect to improve their productivity.
if someone was looking to improve productivity while shopping for a phone, they are fools for picking up the iphone in the first place. sure it's a great media device, but it's not a smart phone. if anything, it decreases productivity with over 75,000 useles apps which you can only run one at a time.