Apple killing Atom support, dreams of netbook hackintoshers in next Snow Leopard release?
By Tim Stevens 
posted Nov 2nd 2009 6:59AM
posted Nov 2nd 2009 6:59AM
Nobody said running a netbook hackintosh would be easy -- but nobody said they'd make it this hard. Apple is currently engaged in a war of compatibility with Palm and, if the developer build of Snow Leopard version 10.6.2 is any indication, the Atom processor is next on the smack down list. Word on coder street is that the upcoming revision of OS X will kill support for Intel's little powerhouse. That could certainly change before it hits the world at large, but we wouldn't bet on it. So, if you're viewing this on an netbook install of your own devising, you may be stuck at version 10.6.1 (or earlier) for awhile -- or you may need to do a little custom kernel building. Either way, we're thinking that if Apple ever gets around to making a netbook it probably won't be an Atom-powered one.
Apple make decision to protect obscenely large revenue stream?
Surely not.
Tim - the restriction to Apple hardware doesn't seem to do much good... Just as someone who has just splashed a bunch of cash on a 27" iMac.
Kinda like Nokia.
@Itchy
Uh... what?
Well if they didn't have an "obscenely large revenue stream" they wouldn't be much of a company. You do realize that in business, the name of the game is to make money right?
Yes, that's why they're protecting their revenue. It's not rocket science.
When Apple's competition makes changes to protect their revenue stream, like implementing WGA, people have fits, saying that the competition should be spending their resources fixing bugs rather than trying to block people out.
When Apple's competition locks out pirates from installing patches and fixes, people have fits saying that the competition is exposing their users to viruses, data loss, etc.
Apple has commercials making fun of how their competition for diverting resources (money) from fixing problems to other areas just to protect their revenue stream, and they are cheered for it.
Apple does what they criticize the competition for, and they are justly protecting their revenue stream.
"Apple (made a) decision to protect (an) obscenely large revenue stream?"
Looks like it, though why there is this uproar over a rumour is beyond me. Having run OSX on a netbook I found it ill suited in its current iteration so having the Atom dropped is pretty much a non-issue for 99% or the market. Surely the several flavours of Linux are a far better choice :)
Apple should start selling the OS standalone. This is getting ridiculous.
Yes it is ridiculous that we bought MBP for 1,400£ while some people just install Snow Leopard on 200£ netbook :)
keep dreaming
So, why did you buy the MBP if you're pissed at people who hacked SL on a netbook? Besides, a MBP vs. Netbook shouldn't even be attempted to compare, apples vs. oranges.
The main good thing (IMHO) about OS X is the way apple know the exact hardware configurations of all target machines; loose this and that's their main advantage over windows gone.
iJay, get over yourself. I didn't get pissed off when 2 of my classmates got MS Office for free, and I paid $29 for it. It's none of my concern, and it shouldn't be yours unless you coded and developed the damn thing.
Why do you pay 29 euro/usd anyways for what MS calls a servicepack? The whole pricing comparison between MS/Apple always boggled my mind. MS makes an OS release every 4 years and the in between updates are for free while Apple touts that their OS only costs 30 usd/euro, a small detail they leave out is that every minor update/bug-squash runs you another x euro. I wonder how expensive the OS actually is if you compare it on a day to day basis.
Now that Apple releases an OS dirt-cheap it´s no wonder people will try to install it on a piece of hardware which isnt Apple. The chance this happens increases even more thanks to Apple refusing to provide the mass. Ofcourse you could say... well its Apple if you don´t like it don´t buy it. But what right has Apple to tell me on which equipment I can install it? Apple is being attacked on all sides due their closed model which is kind of odd as I remember in the old days that users would scream their lungs out about MS doing exactly the same.
Apple sure produces something nice but its rediculous that they lock in their user-base as much as they do and lock-out their developers equally as bad.
I am not defending Apple at all but why should they start selling a standalone OS? It's up Apple's execs to decide what they should make and what they should TRY to sell. The fact that you and a few others wish Apple would start supporting more platforms is nice but really doesn't mean squat.
Did you guys really expect Apple to stand still and NOT protect their assets when they are being constantly attacked by companies like Palm and Psystar? Plus Apple is about to release a table with is more or less a netbook. I most likely does not have an Atom CPU but is something similar so it makes a lot of sense to lock Atom out. Don't get me wrong the news of Atom being locked out of SL is both great news and quite bad ones. For one the tablet is very likely to be running a full blown version of the OS but on the other hand Apple is most definitely going to position it in a price range above that of netbooks if they are making sure that netbooks are nor supported.
I really wish Apple would focus a little bit more attention on budget computers but then again my wish really doesn't change the company policy ...
@Tim:
That is their advantage and their disadvantage. More people would try OSX if they didn't have to use it on a Mac. More people would be able to afford it while being able to eat at the same time.
It will be a cold day in hell before Apple allows their OS to be sold standalone. As of now their OS is meant for a niche set of hardware that they specify and control. They don't have the infrastructure or drivers in place to handle the sheer multitude of hardware out there. While OS X is a fantastic OS in it's own right. The moment you put it in the same playing field (hardware and software) as Microsoft, it's going to implode.
Microsoft went towards being usable by pretty much anyone regardless of hardware (for the most part). Apple went towards usability and a very limited set of hardware. It's much easier to go from a large hardware ecosystem and focus on usability (since the hard part is done). It substantially more difficult to go from having a very easy and good OS to start with and then expanding the hardware ecosystem dramatically (mostly because you risk stability doing so).
yes apple should definitely take your advice considering they are performing at a loss every quarter
wait, shit
it only seems ridiculous to you because you are a cheapskate.
@JZ, wasn't the Snow Leopard upgrade a service pack that cost about the same? Funny how when Apple does it, it's okay.
@ i Jay, that's just the price you pay for the MBP man. If you wanted to have a netbook with OSX you have plenty of choice, ... Iphone 3G, Iphone 3GS and... Oh yes! Ipod Touch ..........................
They never will.
Every company has a business plan. Just because Microsoft sells standalone operating systems doesn't mean that Apple should too! Just because Apple has it's own retail stores doesn't mean that Microsoft..... well you get the point. Obviously both Microsoft and Apple are good at what they do. As long as they stick to what they do well, they are both going to be doing fine. Apple likes to keep it's products niche with higher revenue margin and Microsoft likes to cater to the masses. There are obvious advantages/disadvantages to both those strategies, but the last thing each company needs to do derail from their business plan. Apple has always tried to create the ultimate personal computing experience while Bill Gate's vision was a computer in very home.
I'm happy running windows 7 pro on my netbook. However apple will never sell OS X alone. That would mean that would mean that they would have to raise the cost; in order to try to offset what they would lose on their pc's. Who would by a Mac if they could get OS X on a Dell?
If OS X were to go mainstream as a stand alone OS then it would probably be Apples version of XP (2001 version).
It's one thing to decide not to release a netbook but it's something else entirely to specifically block the netbook processor. Oh well, c'est la vie. Good job protecting the large profit margin macbook.
I didn't realize c'est la vie was spelled like that. I felt really American as I mentally pronounced it as SEST LA VEE and had to do a mental double take.
Literally, Ca est la vie ... That is the Life... without contraction.
Re the removal of atom support... i'm not upset because idon't. :)
it's their OS and they don't have a device on which the OS is installed, so I don't even see the problem with this... they have every right to restrict where their OS goes...
Sucks for Hackintoshers but makes sense. Why support a processor where the OS has never been released on (I think). Its really just a waste of space if they had no plans to release on ATOM processors.
So what sort of processor would the speculated iPad or iTablet use?
Although if it's not running OS X, I guess it still could have Atom, but it looks unlikely.
As if Apple stopped hackintoshers from running OSX on AMD hardware or even processors without required instruction sets (various SSEs). OSX will run on Atom CPUs just fine.
This isn't about "support" it's not like I could walk into a Genius bar with a Dell mini for support. It's not like there were specific Eee patches being released by bemused devs in Cupertino. They went through code and are specifically REMOVING support. Deliberately breaking something is not the same as looking at your books and removing something that your people tell you is costing you money to support.
Have they actively removed support, or have they just added a requirement for SSE4 or some other feature that is unsupported by the atom?
@Paradox: I've been assuming that Apple would roll their own CPU or use another Cortex A8 ARM CPU if they release a tablet. I've also been assuming that the tablet OS would be a variant of the iPhone OS, with a new UI template based on screen size. I honestly don't see the advantage of running full OSX on an Apple tablet (whether it's 5" or 10"), and given that the iPhone OS seems to run well enough on the iPhone, the Atom CPU simply doesn't have a good enough CPU performance to power usage ratio or whatever to be worthwhile.
I've never owned an Atom-based computer, but I kind of don't see it as being that great. The Fujitsu Lifebook P1510 had a Core Solo ULV CPU at 1.0 or 1.2 GHz, and with their extended battery it weighed around 2 lbs. and had a battery life of 6 hours. Of course, at release it cost around $1500, not $300 like netbooks do now.
Intel plans to introduce Atom CPUs for cellphones. But it seems to me that Intel needs to do something better than the Atom if they want to compete with ARM based CPUs.
They may possibly turn to Samsung for their mobile processors since that Is who they have used for mobile devices.
It is easy - if apple will ever made a netbook, it will be in so distant future, that it will not be the Atom. That is not so strange - in few months we will have here the descendant (codename Pineview), and there are also some interesting competitors. But Apple has a power to push intel to create something special for them only (as they did it for Apple Air processor).
They didn't push Intel for anything, they just got their hands on the ULV thin C2D's before anyone else, stop reading marketing blurbs they are all lies.
PA semi design based on ARM Cortex 9 with two cores.
You stay classy Apple
Wow. Jobs is turning into everything he used to criticize others for.
Draconian app approval process, suing Pystar, blocking Palm, now killing off individual chip support. What's next eliminating support for Google Maps and developing their own in-house maps? Oh wait...
++
"turning into"?
Hasn't Apple always been such a douche company?
Hmmm, approving 100,000 apps is your example of being draconian? Suing a company that is trying to destroy their business model and profit from a operating system they didn't write is somehow bad? And now blocking companies from benefiting financially from software they didn't write, yeah, wow, so evil.
It's almost like Apple is a for-profit corporation! How dare they!
Freetards FTW!
Apple has always been like this however they've gotten much, much worse since the introduction of the iPod. It's to the point where I'm seriously considering moving to Windows 7 after 15 years of being on the Mac. Don't get me wrong, I *LOVE* the Mac OS far more than any OS I've ever used, however this draconian nonsense is starting to get the best of me.
Right now I want an affordable mid-range tower than can drive quad monitors, a netbook and a low cost laptop to round out my computing nirvanna. Apple's cheapest unit that can drive quad monitors is $2500 (ouch), they don't even make a netbook and their low cost laptops start at $1000 (with non-user replaceable batteries, no less).
If I complain about this in the usual Mac circles, the Mac faithful make it very clear that I'm simply not in Apple's target market and I should deal with it. To this point I've resisted that idea, but I'm starting to see that they're right. If I want an easy to use, flexible, affordable computer then I need to start looking at Windows 7.
Ouch. Dell mini 10v sales will be way down after hearing this news.
Well, when the price goes down, I might have to buy one for Linux.
There's an interesting article up on Slashdot right now about Apple and Psystar (again...). Only this time, it seems Apple is making the claim that the act of loading Mac OS X into RAM alongside any third party modifications renders it an "unauthorized copy".
Obviously, they're referring to modifications relevant to the Psystar case, but taken the wrong way, this could imply that anyone who installs 3rd party software that uses items like kernel extensions to enhance functionality would effectively be running a pirated copy of Mac OS X upon rebooting their system.
So, after shitting on the Atom in every single other article, it's suddenly "Intel's little powerhouse" when it runs Snow Leopard?
I see...
This is what L said in picture form
http://www.boilingclay.com/caught_red_handed.bmp
I'm glad someone noticed this :D
Its a beautiful business model:
Apple has software that is in massive demand in proportion to their market share.
Instead of diluting their exclusivity, they restrict the software massively.
This pumps people into the hardware sales, where they can charge what they like.
Fanboyism aside, you have to appreciate the economics.
Remmber it's a gadget blog not an investor one. As consumers we absolutely do not care about their business model. It's the Apple fanatics/apologists who for some reason jump every time Apple limits consumer rights. Ironically it's a selfdefeating strategy. Apple already lost with this strategy once and will do it again. One simply can not win gainst the whole world.
@ lilo Quite the opposite is true. Apple nearly collapsed in the past when opening up their os to third party hardware manufacturers. The closed eco system that returned with jobs in the '90s saved the company and has proven to be extremely profitable.
And to those of you who think that this is a gadget site and a business model doesn't matter, you should think about it a little more. If gadget companies don't have profitable business models then there would be no money for development and manufacture of the high tech gadgets you so dearly love.
If you don't like how Apple handles their software then buy a windows or linux box, pretty simple solution.
Good, they should stop it from running on all non-Apple hardware.
Apple back onto their Ghetto little old tricks, Yeah shame so many people were able to show how u could get the ohhh so powerful leopard OS onto an MSI Wind. You guys keep trying to curb that cash now !
Geez Apple is such a wanker of a company sometimes.
I'm of the opinion that these hackintosh netbooks help Apple sales in the long run. There are tons of people who want to give OS X a test drive on their cheap netbook, before making an expensive commitment.
My first "Mac" experience was on a hacked MSI Wind, and I really loved OS X. But it became tiring working with a 10-inch screen, loading kexts, etc. so I bought a MBP and never looked back. I think this is what the majority of the netbook hackintosh ppl do, they get a taste, and want the real deal.
So this update/kill has a possibility of backfiring on Apple.
One can only hope...
I see your point, but I would look at it from the view of piracy of music, videos, and software. If somebody can get the vast majority of the functionality for cheap or free with a little work on their part they are never going to pay full price for it. Hence these people that are making OSX work on cheaper hardware are never going to buy an actual Apple machine as long as they can keep running it on their hardware of choice with little inconvenience of hand updates and such. Similar to how the RIAA and MPAA claim lost sales to piracy, the people pirating stuff were never going to buy it in the first place so either they are going to find it for free or not have it around to listen too. Its like claiming that pan handlers would just right up and get a job if governments made giving money to pan handlers illegal. The pan handlers would just find some other way of getting money, they certainly wouldn't go get a job.
I agree that it will lose sales for Apple in the long run because of decisions like this. I have an MSI Wind that was running Leopard. The network card could be a pain and no Netflix streaming was a big gripe (it thinks it's a Power PC).
Now that I have Windows 7 on it, I use it much more, the battery life is better and I have Netflix streaming. I've been an OS X user for about 5 years now (getting a new MB or iMac at least once a year), but Apple is ridiculous now and Microsoft has stepped it up. My next computer purchase will not be running an Apple OS.
When I used Windows, Suse and Ubuntu for more than 10 years, I never attempt to run Mac OS X on PC machines. Then, I bought MBP and now using SL. I obey law. I dont want to break it. I am a responsible citizen and netizen.
Things like hackingtosh and pirates bay encourages people to become thieves and robbers digitalitically (sorry for ma ingleesh :D). People should aware that downloading and using pirated multimedia stuff and software are just like as breaking into someone's house.
If we are not afford for Armanis and Guccis, we wont break into their show rooms.
If we are not afford to pay Steve Jobs, there is an another person - Mark Shuttleworth. He is giving free state-of-art OS called Ubuntu. You can make even better than Mac OS X. Try that one. Dont break the law please. :)
Whoah, you're full of it.
Also, an EULA is not a law, just FYI.
@L
No, it's a contract that you accept when you click "I accept" - breaking your contract means you can be subjected to any number of laws as may be specified in the EULA. So while not a law in itself, the EULA is still a legal entity - if you violate it, and you are sued for doing so, then you may challenge the validity of the EULA in a court of law.
Back here in Europe, if you buy it, it's yours, you can do whatever you feel like with what you just bought, regardless of any freaking EULA that normaly even goes against our laws. So, fuck Apple, I'm building a hackintosh just because I can.
@iJay
Thanks dad, now get out of my room and leave me alone.
@Johanu: +1 for European consumer freedom.
I wish Apple would embrace the OSx86 community.
Okay, so they lose out on money from hardwaew, but on the other hand, if you're going to spend hundreds of hours and all the computer skills you have getting OSX to work on a Dell, you're either a fan of OSX, or very dedicated to hacking.
If Apple were to emrace the community, they'd gain a thousands-strong legion of bug-chasers and developers, all prepared to work for free, that will enevitably improve OSX.
That does sound nice, but if the release of SL is any indication, Apple doesn't care about bugs in their OS.
Woah! Apple is cutting support for a processor it doesn't use and has said it will not use? Outrageous. Might as well note Apple will not support ION either. Hey look it's called a HACKintosh because it's a set of cobbled together drivers for hardware that Apple doesn't support.
Pretty sure that's a bad idea, considering the Ion uses the same GeForce 9400M on-board GPU as the 2009 MacBook and MacBook Air.
Good luck Apple, if you can't stop hackintoshing how will you stop Atoms ? someone will just re-write the relevent part or those with Atoms will just stick with 10.6.1.
i think they are reducing OS market share (and i think they don't pay much attention to OS revenue) ,Although MSFT is mainly a software Company they allowed Boot camp on the enemy not just that ,they made Office for Mac ,i think Apple don't see itself as "software" Maker ,pitty Itunes for PC
Bummer. I guess I'll be stuck at 10.6.1 forever on this machine. Oh well, it works a heck of a lot better than Windows (any version).
Apple. Are you there? America can't afford your $1000 entry level MacBook.
Windows 7 will make the pc buying descision easier.
I'd have to imagine most hackintosh users would switch to ubuntu before going to windows 7
they don't care about america that buys a $300 netbook only to run Snow Leopard. They don't care if you actually buy Snow Leopard (which most probably don't and the ones that did got the $29 version), they make very little to no money off their OS, they aren't Microsoft, their business is selling hardware.
Judging by their earnings the last several quarters, America can afford Apple hardware. But you're right, a company should not be allowed to make money. They should be forced to sell everything at 1% margin so you can afford it.
"Apple. Are you there? America can't afford your $1000 entry level MacBook."
Oh yes, the writing is certainly on the wall with that. No one can afford their machines ;)
Oct 19th, 2009
"Apple’s Best Quarter Ever: Profits Up 47%, Revenue Up 25%"
http://www.thedomains.com/2009/10/19/apples-best-quarter-ever-profits-up-47-revenue-up-25/
I doubt the Atom could run SL.
And you're clearly uninformed. Next?
I''m running it on my eee 900a with 1 GB RAM right now, it runs smoother than Ubuntu, XP, or Leopard ever did.
*sigh*
No one has even noticed that this appeared on a random blog, and is the ONLY POST on said blog. There is no mention of this in the usual hackintosh places (Netkas and others), so I'm inclined to believe it's bullshit.
There have been changes in the kernel design lately (especially with power management), and these have made hackintoshes slightly more difficult, but nothing that couldn't be worked around (see sleepenabler.kext).
Non-story until it's out and someone with brains confirms it and it's not some accidental bug - because you know, Apple is NOT testing things on hackintoshes to make sure they work. That whole "unsupported" thing, you know?
If we spread Apple too thin they'll lose the wars on every front. Let's hack today's mach_kernel and make it all good.
good. The Ion sucks.
Thats fine, I'm happy that apple are turning into real assholes more and more. Its pushing people towards linux and android phones
Wait, I must be missing something here. The Atom is ABI-compatible with the Core 2 Duo; it has identical exposed features as far as the OS is concerned. It also uses the same chipset as some of Apple's existing products (the 945GM).
I don't see how the Atom would require (or could even feature) any specific "support" to be removed.
In other words, it sounds to me like Apple is blocking, not disabling.
Fine by me. I don't need Apple's crap on my netbook. Windows 7 and ubuntu (Eventually to be replaced by Chrome OS.) is all I need. The people putting OS X on a netbook boils down to three categories:
-geeks that want to say they did it.
-people who have not dealt with the headaches of OS X and getting it to do what YOU want so they think that putting it on their netbook would be the greatest thing since the introduction to the wheel.
-addicted iTards who want a netbook sized device that Apple does not offer. (Sorry but the air is not a subnotebook, nor is it a netbook. Nor is it priced anything near the realm of a netbook)
Thankfully I only fall into the first category. I loaded leopard from my legit DVD, tried it out for a bit. Realized that I'm thankfully over OS X, and put the RC of Win7 on it. Been there, done that, moving on to greater things. I consider a locked down OS X to be a good thing, just like I consider the fact that the iPhone is only available on ATT to also be a good thing. It keeps the rest of the carriers from being contaminated by pretentious snobs who are more interested in bling then what you can do with your system. Its very much like AOL idiot users of the 90's vs. the rest of the internet. It was a good thing that they only had AOL, kept them segrigated from the rest of the net...until AOL started allowing real browser access...then it all went to hell.
Let it rot on the ATT network for all I care and let OS X be forever tied to Apple hardware. Hell encrypt the sucker. Make it tighter so fewer people can run OS X on other hardware. Make it so you need to drop a grand to play on Apple's OS.
I think Apple started to pave the ground for its own netbook, aka "iTablet", whatever it will be name. No more hackintosh, but only macintosh.
Today: Apple shuts down hackintosh completely.
Tomorrow: Apple release new Netbook Tablet (iBook w/no keyboard, all touch) for $699.
I have a MSI U90( 9 inch version of U100) which is running Leopard, not the snowy one though.
sorry to hear that future SL won't support atom any more, I was hoping one day I can get it on ION platform( Acer Revo alike) :(