Palm: webOS speed fix in the 'immediate future'
By Thomas Ricker 
posted Nov 4th 2009 3:31AM
posted Nov 4th 2009 3:31AM
Palm device owners have little to complain about when it comes to webOS; not after enduring Garnet and empty Access promises for so long. Still, that OS which relies so heavily upon web technologies like HTML 5, JavaScript, and CSS can be surprisingly sluggish when compared to other smartphone OSes. Now we have a hint as to why thanks to Palm's Ben Galbraith and Dion Almae who made an interesting admission Tuesday related to the Pre's UI latency compared to the iPhone 3GS -- a phone based on the same ARM architecture. According to the duo, "the path to the GPU didn't exist" in webOS, something that will be solved in the "immediate future" using CSS transforms to modify visual elements thus freeing-up CPU cycles for other tasks. Hmm, immediate future sure sounds like a webOS update to accompany the Palm Pixi release on November 15th.
Oh yeah, I remember Palm.
Seriously, WebOS is nice but they have one device in until very recently in one country. They really should look at licensing.
I remember iPhone when it doesn't do multitask... wait
iPhone does mutlitask, -you can cruise the web, while listening to the iPod app, and still receive calls and notifications. It just doesn't multitask any arbitrary 'non-Apple' approved app. But in the end, the experience (which is what Apple is aiming for) is very satisfying.
This is the same reason Flash isn't on it. CSS transforms and HTML5 are the preferred and efficient AND standardized methodologies. Has anyone seen how crazy FATWARE flash embeds can be? It would KILL the processors (and does in those that have it) in mobile devices.
People may cry... but reality and logic just won't bend, though I wish it would.
Yeah, everyone remember about Palm being the guilty party of stealing a USB Vendor ID! :)
Now, why not steal the GPU ID as well?
Steveorevo I'ts amazing that you can get everything wrong in your post.
When you suckage a little bit less? Maybe?
Now that is a big thing they left out. Leave it to Palm to screw up the important parts. The GPU isnt being used at all atm haha.
Not really a screw up more a strategy decision to get the Pre out the door. I feel like this update better come for the Pixi launch as with a slower CPU I don't see how it could run the WebOS I have been using in any reasonable way.
The WebOS problem is not that it is slow with 3 or 5 apps open its that its not fast with 0 open. Seriously just opening a email or my calender is dreadful. They should really kill the visual transitions until their load is placed on the GPU. Three days till picking up the Droid.
I get the feeling that the transitions add little to the load time, more that the app is loading in the background while the transition is occuring. I really don't feel the speed is slow at all, though I agree it is not fast either, until you hit the web browser, app store google maps etc, these are all very quick once open. Actually google maps is quick to open full stop.
At the same time 'perceived speed' is also important. Animations are important to give the user feedback that the device is still responding.
E.g. When browsing photos fullscreen, displaying a blank screen whilst each picture is loading may be faster, but showing the flick animation and displaying the cached/pixellated image whilst loading lets the user know that something is going on.
I'm going to have to agree that it is quite slow, even without many cards (or any for that matter) open. I like the Pre in a lot of ways, but it's sluggish and buggish operating system is kind of annoying. I still have mine, but I'm using my Curve currently. The Pre doesn't get my email while on the 1xRTT band (which is most of my area). I've also had problem when swiping the cards to close the application (it will go up, then come down, then go up again, then come down again for five to ten seconds). Probably, the most annoying to me, is that when I hit the "end call" button, it sometimes hang there for a good three to five seconds. If I press the end call button, the call should end. It shouldn't hang there and be like "o lolz i tot u want be foned longa ^_^." That's probably what I hate the most.
If it does get a fairly serious update, then I will consider going back to my Pre for a while. There are a few other minor annoyances with it, though.
I am none too happy about the headline of the article, it makes it sound as if there is something broken that needs fixing. As stated above by Apd123, the OS is not slow, just not fast, so surely something more along the lines of Palm: webOS speed optimisation in the 'immediate future'.
Also, From reading, I think CSS translations are not to do with the GPU, which your articles makes out, rather that implementing them is another way of increasing speed as well as that they plan on creating a way to the GPU. As the OS is built on web tech, WebGL should be a great way for this to happen, rather than having their own pipeline/sdk.
I couldn't agree with you more! These comments imply the Pre is laggy, which obviously it is not. Of course, sometimes you swipe sideways in Launcher and it takes a few seconds, even though no apps are running. And sometimes you have one Card open, but when you go to open up another one, it says you have too many cards open. And occasionally, even after you close that one remaining app, it STILL says you have too many cards open. So then you have to restart it.
And that's another area that people are full of crap on saying that it takes too long. I mean sure, my old phone restarted in like thirty seconds. But that don't matter! Maybe the Pre takes longer than my computer to start up. But how dare you imply it is slow. How about scrolling when web browsing? It is fast as hell. Of course, you can't read anything because when you scroll it is just those white and grey checkered squares until it renders the site, but damn does it fly. And maybe when you're scrolling slowly it hangs up a bit. But that isn't lag, dammit. It works just fine!
Unfortunately I can only go on my own experience, which is on a UK device bought on day of release. Not had any lag issues with the browser, I also don't actually know what you mean by the grey and white boxes on it, web pages load almost instantly? I have to agree it takes a long time to restart, but the only time that I have had to wait for it was the first few charges where I deliberately let it get to no battery. The memory issue you speak of is also absent from my device, 0, 1 or even 5 apps open, same speed, no issues. I would take your device back and get one that works, sounds like dodgy memory in yours!
There are issues but even things like the battery aren't that bad, I get 48 hours on moderate use (not deliberate, just cos I am at work) and 24 hours on heavy use, which included 4 hours on google maps and an hour on sudoku (bored on a train).
Just to be fair here are my rants about it, like not being able to remove facebook contacts, Surely a way round this would be selecting which contacts you want removing, they get placed in a repository. I understand there is still the issue of what happens if the pre is wiped, but surely which contacts were removed can be memorised in your palm profile?
As for the update, I am not fussed about speed unless it brings better battery life. I love the hardware but really wish they had gone with an OLED screen. The same concept was used on the sony NWA3000 to great effect, look it up, the black one looks a little like the pre but with a better hidden screen. I also loved that hardware though, really sturdy and with a stainless steel trim. The inline remote was awesome looking too, so simple and elegant. That is something the pre needs with a better media player.
I am with everyone else on the calendar, it needs sorting. There also needs to be a fix for the facebook 8 hour offset issue, if facebook won't do it, then we need an option to offset certain accounts. I went for the pre over android and iphone as I thought it would be the best pda, I was wrong. iPhone has a better calendar, so does android which also has great email. If it wasn't for the rest of the phone being great, very promising tech and having the best core technologies (synergy) I would have returned it.
FIX THE CALENDAR!
Oh I would also like a proper facebook app, facebook chat in messaging as an account in synergy and in photos, a section that syncs phone copies of all of my facebook photos and links to photos with me in! Plus MSN/Windows live messenger.
Does anyone use airfoil with airtunes? That would be amazing as an app for pre.
The main thing Palm should be concentrating on right now with WebOS is expanding their AppCatalog because thats the main feature people are looking into there Smartphones today is how many Apps does the phone have..(Apples App Store, BlackBerry App World, Android Market etc.. the Palm AppCatalog needs to catch up ASAP
300 apps in only a couple of months of the app store being open and out of beta is not too shoddy. The app store is not out of beta and open for paid apps here in the UK for another week or so, same as in the rest of europe.
Agreed. I'm in the UK, so see only 2 or 3 new apps per day being approved. At this rate it will be years before they get anywhere near the iPhones, or even Google Android appstore.
I love my Pre and glad I swapped from my flakey G1, but I seriously miss a LOT of good apps. The Pre's App Catalog is pitiful.
OK, it is annoying only having a few apps added per day, but maybe it is not clear, the UK is getting paid apps next week, when we get the update to webOS 1.3 at the same time as the US, to bring parity and coinside with the Pixi release. Nov 15 I think.
I don't remember Apple freaks saying that apps were the only thing important to them when they bought the first iPhone. Apps were of no concern to them until 2008, a whole year after the release.
Well this is definitely positive news indeed:) I like WebOS. Now they just need to release a Palm device to other parts of the world.
The Pre is not "surprisingly sluggish when compared to other smartphones." It's faster than my iPhone was and a whole load faster than my Android G1.
*sigh
i agree. after 1.2, i've noticed a significant improvement in speed, animation smoothness, etc.
I have had the Pre since day 1 release in the states. I have had very minor issues with speed. It does what I want it to do at a pace I am comfortable with. Main benefit: I run my own business, and it allows me to keep up with things on the road, from reading Docs/PDFs, interacting with my calendars in one view, great email interaction.
Can't compare it with the iPhone. I never had one, the cost of ownership per month is quite high compared to a Pre.
Well if you want to compare it to the iPhone (as a Pre owner w/ a lot of friends with iPhones)
The Pre w/ webOS 1.1... did not even come close to the iPhone in terms of responsiveness.
The Pre w/ webOS 1.2+? Pretty close to the iPhone. Not there yet, but a HUGE leap from 1.1. If Palm continues on that level of improvement, it'll be at the iPhone level or better at version 1.3. I'm skeptical if they can make another huge jump again, but hey, who knows?
Of course there's some apps on the Pre that are godawfully slow, but that should be easy to improve too.
I frequently borrow my friend's iPhones to look stuff up though, but that's usually since I'd rather drain their batteries than mine. :)
Yea, I also am uncertain where all this sluggish business comes from. I love my wife's Pre. It's quicker than any iPhone, Blackberry or WinMo I've used (haven't tried a 3GS, so don't know about that), and, surprisingly as I never thought I'd say this, she gets far better coverage with sprint than I get with my Verizon "there's a map for that" Storm.
As to apps, well, while it doesn't have a lot of apps, it seems to have more useful apps than say Blackberry. In fact, the only app missing that would be great to have is a facebook app, but everything else is there (Pandora, gmail integrated, google maps, navigation out of the box, weather, where, basic games)
Owned a Pre then a 3GS. The Pre was painfully slow compared to the iPhone. Sure it may multitask, but having more than 2 apps open is guaranteed to make the Pre slow to a crawl anyway. The Pre is the most overrated device around.
Sounds like you are lying through your teeth. I constantly have 3-4 apps open all the time. It goes the same speed as if there is just one.
Yea, you can basically keep opening apps it doesn't seem to really effect the devices a whole lot. It just universally takes a second for certain actions which is more of a optimization thing due to lack of GPU. Once that's fixed I expect one should be able to run many cards without a problem.
Nathan, there must have been something wrong with your Pre (or you're an Apple fanboy who never actually owned one). I regularly leave 4 or 5 apps open and the Pre has never "slowed to a crawl". I changed to the Pre from the iPhone 3GS having had every version of the iPhone since day one and I have only been slightly disappointed by the fact that the UK is lagging behind on updates and paid apps. As far as performance goes, the Pre is the better device for me. At least 90% of the stuff on Apple's app store is useless crap anyway.
By that logic, that leaves 10,000 good apps. Still a whole lot more than the Pre.
I'll be so happy if this actually happens - My Pre is so painfully slow to open ANYTHING, even after a full reboot. It takes so long to open apps that you think, "Maybe my press didn't register" and you press again, but then that second press registers after the app has launched and now you're accidentally calling Grandma, and since the hangup button takes another five seconds to register you're screwed and now you're stuck on the phone for 45 minutes talking about Uncle Steve's sex change.
I wholeheartedly agree!! Mine seems so much slower after the last update. The phone app is like molasses. When you try to view your call log it takes forever to get there and even longer to register when you select someone from the list to call. So you end up pressing it a few times. The best example of sluggishness on the Pre is the camera app. Waiting for the actual picture to show up is a painfully slow process. WebOs does amazing things but the speed is an issue I can't ignore. If it isn't fixed very soon I will be looking elswhere.
WebOS took several major shortcuts to get a working OS out the door quickly. Witness the fact that they hacked into iTunes for media sync instead of writing a proper sync client like everyone else does. Some of these shortcuts will cause major long term problems until they are fixed. One of those shortcuts is mentioned here: lack of GPU acceleration for the UI. Basically in normal use the iPhone gets help from the GPU, while the Pre can't.
They are going to have to basically allow web pages to use GPU acceleration. This is a very very advanced feature that no one has gotten working yet on any platform, including desktop systems like Windows and MacOS X. Google has been trying to get people to do this for a while on the desktop.
Kudos to Palm if they have this working on the Pre soon. That will be some very impressive engineering. I'm not holding my breath though.
My Pre does get sluggish sometimes. It seems to me to be apps not closing properly or a high demand on the network. Either way a quick restart solves that problem. But it's nice to see Palm preemptively solving problems
As far as I know the pre has a gpu core but palm didn't play the license fee to use it
I figure they probably decided to pony up and give an additional boost to webos
If they give opengl to developers it also means we will see 3gs class 3d games come to a phone with buttons
Joe Leiberman is so happy about Palm!
That is Droopy, not the independent from CT!
Same architecture as iPhone Yet it doesnt measure up in comparison. Wow.
Folks, this 'sluggishness' is a reality on my pre, and is especially fustrating when using the phone and messaging apps. Sometimes the phone app takes forever switching from the dial pad to recent calls, and other times you press send then press it again thinking it didnt press the first time, it dials and hangs up, interpreting the second press as a hang up. Some of the tweaks have made the messaging app a little more bearable, for example opening conversations in their own card view, but still if these problems arent fixed by the end of the year, im ditching palm forever. They promised updates which would include flash and video by the end of the year, but who cares if the basic functionality of the phone isnt there.
I like the Pre, but I really dont like how WebOS is written in well, web code, Java, HTML, and CSS are all crap, they are a bitch to program for, I feel sorry for the poor bastards who write web pages without dreamweaver for a living, let alone a phone OS.
my pre is a little slow at times...very few times that I hardly ever notice. one an app is loaded there is no problem with speed. an increase in speed is more than welcome
I know this is an article about speed and stuff, but I've seen comments by people who leave 3 or 4 apps open. I don't understand that. Even if I don't leave anything open, my battery drains like the train is leaving the station or something. If I open 1 or 2 apps, fuhgeddaboudit.