Some more perspective on the DROID and multitouch
By Nilay Patel 
posted Nov 4th 2009 6:00PM
posted Nov 4th 2009 6:00PM
To begin with, Apple's various patents on multitouch functionality haven't changed since we last looked at them vis-à-vis the Pre back in January -- pinch-to-zoom hasn't been magically added to their claims. Now, Apple's had nearly 300 additional patents granted since we wrote that piece, including two that seem to cover the iPhone's soft keyboard, but a quick skim doesn't indicate anything that implicates pinch-to-zoom. It's certainly possible we could have missed something, but we're going to proceed under the assumption that nothing about Apple's patent portfolio has changed in regards to multitouch pinch-to-zoom since our piece on the Pre last January, as we haven't seen or heard anything to the contrary.
That's not to say the situation is entirely the same, however -- in fact, some major developments have gone down in the past 11 months. First, Palm actually shipped the Pre, replete with pinch-to-zoom and the specific locking-scroll behavior covered by one of Apple's patents, and we haven't heard a peep from either company about pending litigation -- they seem content to fight some sort of super-lame iTunes proxy war instead. Still, Palm's a pretty small player in the big scheme of things, and Apple could be waiting for it to blow
If Google was so fearful of patent litigation we doubt Android 2.0 would have multitouch support built-in. |
But there's been another massively high-profile product launched in the past few months with multitouch pinch-to-zoom enabled: Windows 7, accompanied by a slew of multitouch computers, all of which support pinch-to-zoom in at least Internet Explorer and the photo browser, and many of which bundle in additional apps to make use of the gesture. On top of that, the Zune HD has pinch-to-zoom, as does Microsoft Surface. We can't imagine Steve Jobs would be watching competitors like Microsoft, HP, Lenovo, and Sony all introduce major new products that feature pinch-to-zoom if he could prevent it with the threat of patent litigation.
So that brings us back to the DROID as it ships in the States, with no built-in pinch-to-zoom and no multitouch keyboard, but the obvious capability of supporting both. Is Google so afraid of a mythical patent Apple hasn't yet enforced that it's purposefully leaving features out of its OS? We just don't think so -- if Google was so fearful of patent litigation we doubt Android 2.0 would explicitly have multitouch support built-in. We'd say there are two much more likely scenarios: either Apple and Google have an agreement to limit Android in some way (which would jibe with some old rumors about the G1), or Google just hasn't gotten around to implementing multitouch in its apps yet, and it wanted as much control over the DROID as possible -- which explains reports we've heard that claim the MILESTONE's pinch-to-zoom is a Motorola addtion, similar to what HTC did with the Hero.
Unfortunately, chances are we'll never know what to make of this truly odd limitation in an otherwise standout device. Hell, we may never even know who made the final call to leave multitouch gestures off the DROID -- Google's statement to us kind of makes it seem like it was Verizon's decision. But we do know that multitouch gestures like pinch-to-zoom are clearly going to be a huge part of future interfaces, and the sooner everyone comes clean about what they can and can't do, the better. Now -- has anyone heard of any tweaked DROID ROMs?
Yeah good luck on not finding a way around using multitouch. Sorry Apple.
Well I'm not actually sorry for you at all. Sorry for not feeling sorry for you, I guess.
There isn't any point to this article, because Engadget itself has already demonstrated that the Droid supports multitouch.
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/11/04/motorola-droids-built-in-apps-dont-have-multitouch-support-th/
No custom ROM is necessary, or any hackery at all. It's not a patent issue because it's already implemented on the Droid itself. To get multitouch in the browser, just compile an Android 2.0 Browser package (once Android 2.0 is open sourced) with multitouch enabled, install it on the Droid, and voila, multitouch.
"To get multitouch in the browser, just compile an Android 2.0 Browser package (once Android 2.0 is open sourced) with multitouch enabled, install it on the Droid, and voila, multitouch."
Shoot, I'll just send those instructions to my non-geek friends who get the Droid and they'll do it straight away! That's not support, that's a hack. As a person who has to root around devices for a living, I can say there's no way I'm recommending that to others.
mlayer: As an Android developer who has several published applications, I can say that such a multitouch browser can easily be published to the Android Market, which can be downloaded like any other app (or browser replacement ala Steel). You don't have to compile it yourself, one developer has to do it, then publish the binary.
If nobody publishes such a browser in the first week or two of the Droid launch, I'll go ahead and do it myself (at least as soon as Google gets off their asses and releases Android 2.0 to AOSP). If you consider downloading an application from the Android Market to be too much for your non-geek friends, then there is nothing I can do for you (or them).
"If Google was so fearful of patent litigation we doubt Android 2.0 would have multitouch support built-in." well, I guess we have some answers now. Such a good news for us developers of Android Apps. About the tweaked droid ROMS - geeks here are already on to it. so don't worry engadget, you will be hearing from them shortly :D This is why I love this site so much...
How's your mobile O.S? http://bit.ly/android-2-0-worlds-fastest-mobile-operating-system
@coolbho3000
You are the hero of the day!
That is cool you would be willing to do that. Props to you my friend.
@coolbho3000
Your willingness to do this is just one reason why Android will thrive. But honestly, you shouldn't have to do it. It should just be there.
anyone look at the real life problems with using multi touch on a phone??? i generaly use my phone with one hand, making multi touch a cute gimmic, the idea of haveing to use two fingers just to zoom seems useless. currently i love my soft zoom buttons on my G1. Apple fanboy friends of mine brought this subject up, when i asked them to show me how to zoom in on a webpage without using 2 hands and they had alot of trouble. I think that an idea for a double tap and then a dragged box (like windows desktop slection 'boxes') would be a much better solution for this.
There will likely be a hack/ROM that fixes this; but, I'm still going to bring a class action suit against Verizon for false advertising. Just like the v710.
Nick, sorry to break the news, but I'm pretty sure the iPhone has had tap to zoom since its first launch. It has pinch too, not only pinch.
All that said, no one should be worried because there is basically two ways this is going to pan out:
1) Google just updates their apps in the near future with multitouch
2) Google doesn't update their apps so someone else takes it upon themselves and publishes apps to the market. In the process they attract users, and Google is ultimately forced to add multitouch just to keep with the times and or in hope that people don't completely overlook all the stock apps in favor of the multitouch alternatives on the market.
Even if Google never adds multitouch (which I highly doubt) I'm sure plenty a disgruntled coding customer will have published some nice apps soon after launch.
hmmmm....
why is iPhone's screen so dull? was it set to lower brightness?
would like to see screens display comparison!
@coolbho3000
The point of this article is why multi-touch isn't in the default apps... Of course Engadget posted that it's supported by the device, but it's curious why in the US the keyboard, maps, browser don't support multi-touch but in Europe they do.
@nick
You don't have to use multi-touch gestures just because they are there. Also, as an iPhone user, I can tell you multi-touch does make things considerably easier. You can stick with your digital zooms. Double tapping works great with one hand, but to get very accurate zooming you at least can have the ability to do a pinch (analog) to get it exactly where you want it.
Also, most of the time when typing on a qwerty keyboard you'd be using 2 thumbs... Multi-touch would be great here. It's going to be a pain without it. Especially for iPhone users contemplating a switch.
Google has said specifically that MT is built into android, but it is up to the OEM's or carriers to implement it if they want it. Way to not do any research engadget.
Droid is a nice phone indeed, however, I'm still waiting for the god of all phones -- HD2. Come out to play already!!
I prefer the HD2 hardware, but also crave the droid's android 2.0/updated google maps and Verizon's service...
Ahh it would have been nice if hd2 had android, then maybe it would be the perfect phone. I'm still waiting for them to change their mind on that... its a long shot i know, but i wont lose hope. I'm still getting the hd2.
God...Nilay is the absolute BEST at explaining/breaking things down.
Nokia/Apple
Spring Design and B&N
Microsoft Courier
Sorry Josh, gotta new favorite =)
But Nilay is so biased!!! I still prefer Josh.
It is a good, timely post.
It does contain this, though:
"replete with pinch-to-zoom and the specific locking-scroll behavior"
replete != complete
"Replete" is comparable to "rife with".
@ Information Central
which is exactly what he was trying to say...
@ Information Channel
So, you probably had to Google "replete" because you had no clue what it meant, and now you're trying to say he used it incorrectly? There's nothing wrong with the way he implemented that word. Just because you didn't understand it before veering from the article to look it up, doesn't mean it was used in the wrong context. It is a great article.
Uh, no. Something isn't "rife with" two items. The word that makes sense here is "complete."
And just because YOU had to look it up doesn't mean everyone else did.
Main Entry: re·plete
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈplēt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French replet, from Latin repletus, past participle of replēre to fill up, from re- + plēre to fill — more at full
Date: 14th century
1 : fully or abundantly provided or filled
2 a : abundantly fed b : fat, stout
3 : complete
According to Merriam-Webster, replete == complete.
Even ignoring that, the specific example they give counteracts your assertion that that does not cover multiple things, unless they are speaking of a book with only one delicious detail.
You try to be a grammar nazi, but you fail miserably.
@N900
uh, was this sarcastic? this is a worthless post with no news and no conclusion... unless you're particularly fond of unfounded speculation, in which case i have a couple of great cable news channels for you to check out.
Why did you put an iPhone on the Droid? You've made it all dirty :P
Can't wait for the Droid or Xperia X10 here in the UK, with or without multitouch :)
darbear, do you also agree with contracts not being prorated? I would hardly call it fair that the $200 cancellation fees out there don't diminish as you get closer to the end of your two year term. I think there is actually legislation in process regarding this. Does anyone know what happened with that? If I want to cancel my contract for whatever reason 6 months before it's over, I shouldn't have to pay the full fee; I've already been making payments for 18 months.
There ARE very good, unforeseeable reasons for canceling a contract.
I'm sure Google, being from the "simplicity is best served with simple things" approach, knows that multi-touch is more suited for desktop surfaces. Multitouch on a phone is a bit inefficient for completely *one handed* operation (you need 2 hands to do it, one to hold, one to do the multi touch).
I would not be surprised if Google is using Droid as an experiment (with all the other great features) to show the true light that multi-touch is just a fad, eye candy since we all know it's already inefficient.
Case in point: look at the difference between www.google.com (simple) vs. www.apple.com... or even me.com (eye candy everywhere).. Which is more usable?
iDon't charge a $350 termination fee. DroidDoes
I know! AT&T only charges a measly $200.
Do you plan on terminating your contract early? If you don't, then iSTFU. I can't to this day believe that people would bust panties over the DROID, and have it for less than the contracted time frame. You broke the contract; as unfair as the price is, you have pay the price. Either that or just buy the MILESTONE and not even put up with it in the first place.
Iphones cost 300$ from the start. Plus, who would cancel a contract on a Droid?
This is just on "advanced" devices. I'm pretty sure it's to keep people from grabbing the Droid at $199 (after rebate), then ditching the contract for $175 (i think), then flipping the Droid on ebay for less than the contract free price ($600ish I think).
Just get your DROID before Nov. 15. It'll still be $175.
I'm surprised Apple hasn't sued more people over multitouch.
Guys...just..try to go easy on Miles today.
Apple's too busy multi touching themselves at night.
Or Multi touching your mum. YEAH I SAID IT!
How can you all be so Stubborn? You know the iPhone was the first phone/device to use/invent pinch to zoom and make logical use of multitouch and gestures. GET OVER IT! That doesn't mean it is the best phone, AT ALL! Just don't deny the truth. Just Saying.
I didn't claim Apple invented it, I just said I'm surprised.
Just because they didn't make it doesn't mean they don't own the patents.
Oh don't worry Miles, I wasn't speaking to you. Just to those the people who take the mickey out of multitouch
Come on people! Companies don't sue until the suit makes sense. Palm, HTC, and Motorola in total of all their products that have multi-touch have not taken a bite out of the Apple. Also all these devices individually do not equate in sales near anything that would be worth litigating. Look at Nokia, it took them 3 years to sue Apple over 3G and Wifi (still not sure on the reasons but what ever) Nokia waited to see if a) apple was a threat (which it is) and b) that apple has made money with the offending product. Civil suits deal in damages... these companies are not effecting apple. nuf said.
Even if they don't have the patents, I still expect them to sue. Apple is the company that sues just about anything with the name pod or apple in it, even though most of those suits are one shaky ground to say the least.
I think Nilay is on to something when he mentions an agreement here. Sharing a board member with Google might have had some impact. I wouldn't doubt if there is some collusion of some sort between Google and Apple.
@Miles: A: They don't have a patent on multitouch, just on certain gestures(a very limited number of them, and not on any of the main ones that come to mind)
B: It actually does. My understanding is if there was enough prior art to show that many other companies had the same system in the works all ready(not just one or two, but several, as is the case with multitouch) then the patent can be taken away. So far Apple hasn't challenged anyone, probably partially because in doing so they would risk what patents they do have.
Poor Miles. His comments almost always fade away.
Pinch-to-zoom is overrated. I always use a quick double tap on my 3GS. Works way better IMO. Actually I haven't found a single good use for multitouch yet.
Agreed... I hardly ever pinch to zoom on my iPod Touch... almost always use a double tap, it's more precise and uses fewer fingers.
You use multi-touch every time you type an email, text message, or enter in any text on an iPhone. Multi-touch allows your to strike more than one key at a time, making typing faster.
My Hero has the same capability. I type much more quickly on my Hero (with multi-touch) than on my friend's MyTouch 3G (without multi-touch).
Double tap is great if you want to fit the image to the window. Double tap is useless if you want to zoom in to the image. I zoom into images all the time on the iPhone, and you can't do that by only using double tap.
"You use multi-touch every time you type an email, text message, or enter in any text"
WTF are you talking about? You're only pressing the screen with one finger at a time, especially if you're typing with one finger overall.
Most overhyped feature in the cell phone market today. Great for novelty and not much else.
Hmmm... now I feel left out as the only person who pinches in the web browser. I like the precision, but thats just me and my OCD.
bjsguess - No, idiot. Pinch zooming serves a purpose that double tapping cannot replicate. GRANULAR ZOOM. Both in and out, to as large or small a degree as you want. People who say it's overrated have obviously never used it. It solves one of the biggest issues with looking at web pages or images on a small device like a phone. Double tapping is not nearly as good or even useful at all when you constantly need to zoom in and out over various different sections of a page or an image.
Forget the pinch, I go with the counter-clockwise swirl.
@Information Central
actually, smartass, you'd be surprised. Most people hit 2 fingers at a time on keyboards without realizing it. When you do it without multitouch, the screen doesn't know which letter to pick and some screens will hit the letter in-between the two pressure points; so if you hit H then while typing fast accidentally hit A before you release, it will input D for you. With multitouch enabled it can speed up your typing and account for less errors. Something we can all use.
"Double tapping is not nearly as good or even useful at all when you constantly need to zoom in and out over various different sections of a page or an image."
Bullshit. The iPhone's double-tap zooming nails it. My guess is that they're doing something smart to maximize the relevant DIVs on the page or something. Regardless, it works shockingly well. The iPhone (and Apple UIs in general) have plenty of issues, but the iPhone Web-browsing experience sets the standard for all mobile devices.
Multitouch is a bunch of empty hype that has been rammed down our throats but failed to do anything but zoom and rotate for what, three or four years now? And they're STILL showing the same demos of exactly that. It's embarrassing at this point.
I personally find multitouch much more important for a soft keyboard than for zoom, although the Droid has a physical keyboard.
May or may not be trying to tell us something, but from the official Motorola Twitter account just a bit ago:
@vorgity DROID currently supports double tap zoom— stay tuned here for any updates on additional capabilities!
ifeaun rulz
I am definitely getting the Droid but I really really really really ummm really wish it had pinch and zoom built in. Please Verizon, Motorola, or Google update the OS to include pinch and zoom!
I was told by a sales person in a verizon store that the droid would have pinch to zoom on release day. Not sure if it's a mistake, over the air update, or whatever. That tweet makes sense with what I heard.
Kinda apple-esq to tout a great feature that's been on many other phones for years.
Creative should not let Apple to sell iPods too.
As a software developer, I believe there are so many b.s. software patents that should not be allowed. Software companies come up with super vague and general patents (for the most part at least), and all these patents do are deter companies from coming out with cool stuff, and making technology better.
Most software patents really piss me off.
Dear Engadget,
It's nice to see that you actually did some investigation into this issue. Of course, it's only after competing websites caught you wrong-handed with your pants down. This phone of course supports multi-touch and you were silly to ever claim that it didn't.
Mulit-touch support is in the kernel. It doesn't require a modded rom. If people want multitouch enabled browsers and galleries it is as simple as downloading the source for those applications when they become available (when the full 2.0 source is released), patching in the MT support, and then packaging and distributing. This will be user-resolved in no time flat.
Also, custom mods are still dependent on a hack. Seeing as the Sprint Hero and Motorola Cliq, to date, have not been hacked... it would be an ignorant assumption to simply state that custom roms will be available for the Droid, ESPECIALLY given the heightened security around the new chipset.
- Nobody
Another great analysis from Nilay.
I hate Apple
At least say why.
Basically. These type of fanbois do nothing but make Microsoft/Apple look bad.
his had a worm in it.
Or possibly the production units will have multitouch or it'll appear in a firmware update shortly after release.
I'm guessing the European variants have a different ROM build which is why they have it now.
Who knows how these patents actually work, or how these other companies managed to implement their versions of multitouch. Apple might just be biding their time, investigating their competitors version of multitouch before making a decision on wether or not to sue. Either that or they know their patents aren't worth a damn, or are too scared to risk their patents being over turned. Who knows....
Apple sue the crap outta them already!!
Oh wait u gotta wait to have them sell durst so u can than pocket the earnings. I see.
.......what? Shut up.
You deliberately spell words wrong, and for that I think you're a bigger asshole than Miles' ongoing cry for attention.
There is no BLOODY way, in HELL, that you meant to mistype the word "first". No way.
lol, in my rage toward Mr. Obvious Troll, I contradicted myself.
"There is no BLOODY way, in HELL, that you accidentally mistyped the word "first". No way."
There, and oh yeah, go die.
Sue the crap out of who? This whole article is about Motorola and Google NOT including something which some people thought happened because of a thread of Apple suing. Are you saying Apple should sue them for not infringing on their patents?
WTF is the big deal here? My HTC Hero (Sprint) has a multitouch capacitive LCD screen. It works with any app that supports it. The browser and photo album implement pinch etc. It's Android 1.5, not even Cupcake. Why is everybody sackriding 2.0 on Droid? Everything will have 2.0 soon enough. Multitouch is not exclusive to Verizon's Motorola Droid.
You're all circle-jerking for nothing.
That's HTC implemented like the article said. Droid has it in the framework. Of course HTC promised 2.0 will come on the Sense UI phones, but Droid still is the only phone that has 2.0 out of the box and obviously will be the first to have Android 2.0. So the Droid is basically like the second G1, kind of a showcase of 2.0.
As for excitement over the Droid, it has as much to do with hardware as anything. It's the first Android phone to have updated hardware (both the processor and the WVGA screen) while phones like the Hero still have the older ARM11 processors and HVGA. The Hero is still a good phone, esp considering how well Sense UI is done, but there are legit reasons to be excited about Droid.
Personally, I don't think not having multi-touch is that big of a deal, having it as an option is obviously better, but it's not really a deal breaker IMO. Double tap should do fine.
And Android 1.5 is cupcake!!
Verizon did this because they want the iPhone and they would embrace it more than Android
Of course it has multitouch.
Geez Nilay, so you were wrong. It happens.
Get over yourself already!
He already said in the article that it has multi touch, just not enabled in the packaged apps on the DROID....
RTFA
What?! I thought all the Droid was missing was the pinch zoom crap. I thought that the keyboard allowed multitouch? At least this is what I have read in all of the other reviews done on this device. This makes no sense. Someone...help.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/04/motorola-droids-built-in-apps-dont-have-multitouch-support-th/
From the above article, third party apps can have multi-touch. Android 2.0 supports it in the framework. However, I haven't seen a video testing out the virtual keyboard to see if it is multi-touch enabled. However, a third party can always build a multi-touch virtual keyboard even if it doesn't have it on the default one (in Android you can install and use third party virtual keyboards). If you really want to find out, I guess the best option is try it in store or try to get some of the reviewers with the phones to try it out for you.
two reasons that Apple won't go after MSFT and its customers:
Microsoft has it's own multi-touch patents and I bet if you looked into it many of them pre-date the Apple patents. Microsoft and Apple likely have a cross license because of their history with the investment and Office on the Mac.
Palm, they're safe because they have patents on smartphones that Apple is probably infringing and in a patent battle between the two, even if Apple won a 5% royalty on Palm sales and Palm got a 1% royalty on Apple sales, Palm wins.
Google has search patents, lots of them, but they are new to the consumer electronics game and have next to nothing in the CE space. They may feel comfortable with putting multi-touch APIs in their software, but they're not about to implement it in their applications.
Moto: I'm surprised that they didn't feel comfortable enough with their patent portfollio to stick it in Apples eye and add multi-touch support throughout the non-Google apps and UI. I'm guessing that there are plenty of Moto patents that Apple is infringing with the iPhone.
Ah, blocking patents, someone knows what they are talking about.
Agreeing with your train of thought. Not sure if Motorola could have put on their own multitouch apps on Droid since its supposed to be a stock Android 2.0 build.
Thank you so much for your input!!! What would we do without you?
Sorry, that was meant to be a reply to Liftedngifted1. I'd yell about how much the commenting system sucks, but it was probably my fault.
I agree with lifted, I bet it's some shady, back-alley agreement Verizon made with Apple to have the iPhone be the first multitouch set on their network. It obviously seems like Verizon was the one to nix multitouch on the droid in the first place.
Thanks for the recant/clarification. Wonder how long it will be before the update the multi-touch library?
The multi-touch KB is far more important to me than the pinch zoom, so hopefully someone comes up with a quick fix for that. With the questionable keyboard, the soft keyboard will probably get used more than I would have otherwise.
Can Engadget seriously do more research? God damn.
The soft keyboard on in Android 2.0 supports multi-touch since the entire platform is multi-touch enabled! The only thing missing out of the box is pinch zoom which is severally overrated.
From the Android 2.0 highlights:
Android virtual keyboard
An improved keyboard layout to makes it easier to hit the correct characters and improve typing speed.
The framework's multi-touch support ensures that key presses aren't missed while typing rapidly with two fingers.
A smarter dictionary learns from word usage and automatically includes contact names as suggestions.
You're reading the release notes. I'm using a DROID. The keyboard isn't multitouch, I assure you.
@Nilay Patel
Video please. I'd haven't seen video that confirms or denies this. It would help settle the question because there is a lot of back and forth going about multi-touch on the keyboard.
@Nilay Patel
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Also it would be nice to have the iPhone/Pre/Hero or any other device already with a multi-touch virtual keyboard side by side so people can see the difference. I haven't really seen how multi-touch on the keyboard works on the iPhone/Pre/Hero so I'm not too sure if I could tell either way.
The official unlocked version, the MILESTONE, has multitouch. But the DROID isn't gonna have it implemented. For now, at least.
@ jakeThe Hero keyboard doesn't have multitouch either just it's only in the browser and photos.
Not sure if it was mentioned above (didn't read every post), but the Phandroid site points out that multi-touch for the keyboard DOES exist in the native apps. He even demonstrates in one of his videos.
The only thing missing is pinch to zoom in the browser. Seems like much ado about nothing, considering that you can zoom with the little zoom button on the screen.
Just saw Nilay's comment above mine on this point. Rob over at Phandroid also has a Droid and he insists that multitouch works fine on the keyboard and he shows it in a video.
It's perfectly possible that Google wanted to get the multi-touch framework out to developers, and perhaps more importantly handset makers, as soon as possible. Consider that speech-recognition was added in 1.5 and text-to-speech was added in 1.6, but neither feature was really fully used until the navigation app in 2.0.
Also...
If Apple has a patent that prohibits multi-touch in Android, Google would not have implemented it at all (as the article suggests).
If Apple has patents that prohibit specific gestures like pinch-zoom, we would still expect there to be SOME multi-touch gestures used by the default apps. As it stands, there are none.
HTC Hero on Sprint has it so why no DROID love?